VA Police Get Shoveled in Shameless Showdown with Purple Heart Veterans
July 1, 2009 by Robert Rosebrock · 68 Comments
By Robert L. Rosebrock, Staff Writer
June 28, 2009 is a day that will live in both infamy and honor in the lives of America’s Military Veterans and We the People.
On that day, the sleazy VA bureaucrats of the West Los Angeles Medical Center infamously ordered a surveillance van to park within 100 feet from the front gate where The Veterans Revolution hold their peaceful Sunday Rallies to “Save Our Veterans Land,” and to monitor their every move.
Amateurish and Phony
The government’s silver Ford van with blackened windows and no license plates was as conspicuous as a drag queen in a football team huddle. Moreover, the government’s amateurish attempt to disguise their despicable spy machine as a gardener’s truck with a shovel, rake and hoe at its side was as insulting as a Veteran having to shake hands with a corrupt politician.
Professional and Bold
Nonetheless, when Walter Martin and Luis Rivera, who are both Post Commanders of the Military Order of Purple Hearts, showed up for the 67th consecutive Sunday Rally, they were informed that we were being monitored by the nearby surveillance van.
Without hesitation, Commander Martin, said: “Luis, get in your car … we’re going in there.” And go in there they did.
Luis drove his red Dodge Magnum station wagon onto the Veterans’ Grand Lawn alongside the surveillance van and both Commanders boldly got out and walked around the van and took photos.
Suddenly, a sloppily dressed “gardener” jumped out of the van and ordered them to stop photographing. The “gardener” had obviously called for backup support inside his spy machine because within seconds, several federal VA police cars and an unmarked car sped aggressively across the Veterans’ Grand Lawn with their red and blue lights flashing while sweeping in on the “crime” scene.
Military ID Not Good Enough
Commander Martin, a 22-year Army Special Forces Veteran, showed his retirement card for identification and the VA Gestapo police didn’t want to accept it as valid ID, even though he was standing on Veterans hallowed ground and both Commanders were wearing their Purple Heart caps and shirts.
For nearly an hour, the VA’s thug police detained and questioned the Commanders and photographed Luis’s car, while their fellow henchmen were on the phone talking to their “superiors.”
Curiously, the “gardener” and his spy machine conveniently disappeared from it’s own crime scene never to be seen again.
Soon after, the VA Gestapo police released Commanders Martin and Rivera from their wrongful detainment and they returned to cheers and applauding at our 67th consecutive Sunday Rally.
A Day of Infamy
June 28, 2009, will forever be a day of infamy for America’s Veterans as this was a day that our own U.S. government attempted to spy on 60, 70 and 80-year old World War II, Korean and Vietnam Veterans who were peacefully demonstrating in defense of their own sacred land.
June 28, 2009 will forever be a day of infamy for America’s Veterans because this was a day that sleazy VA bureaucrats ordered either an FBI or Homeland Security surveillance van to monitor innocent and elderly Veterans who peacefully demonstrate every Sunday against those who have perpetrated the pillaging and plundering of their sacred land.
A Day of Honor
June 28, 2009 will forever be a day of Honor for America’s Veterans as this is the day that two Purple Heart Veterans stood up and challenged the U.S. government’s illegal spying on their fellow Veterans.
June 28, 2009 will forever be a day of Honor for America’s Veterans because this is the day that two Purple Heart Veterans backed down a phony “gardener” who was spying on fellow Veterans and forced the spy master to pick up his phony shovel and get the hell off of Veterans sacred property.
America’s Military Veterans and We the People owe an enormous debt of respect and gratitude to Army Veteran Walter Martin and Marine Veteran Luis Rivera, both disabled, for serving not only their Country with Duty and Honor, but their fellow Veterans as well.
Join The Veterans Revolution
If the Founders of this great nation saw what was going on against the defenders of America’s freedom and independence by the public servants of the very government they established, they would start another American Revolution.
It’s time for America’s citizenry to stand up and defend those who have always defended them by joining the Veterans Revolution and start demanding the immediate removal of these traitorous tyrants from the public payroll.
Every American citizen is urged to turn their American Flags upside down and to start wearing their American Flag lapel pin upside down because Veterans lives and property are in extreme danger.
God Bless America and The Veterans Revolution.
The spy "gardener" packs up his phony tools and prepares to leave in his spy machine.
The VA’s spy "gardener" in blue shirt questions Commander Martin while Commander Rivera is to the left.
Commanders Martin and Rivera, right, being questioned by VA police and the spy "gardener" next to his spy machine.
"Get Off Our Lawn!" Thanks to Purple Heart Post Commanders Walter Martin and Luis Rivera, the spy machine leaves but the red Dodge stays.
The VA’s spy machine "camouflaged" as a gardener’s truck and parked less than 100 feet from where elderly Veterans peacefully demonstrate against the pillaging and plundering of their sacred land by politicians and government officials
Red Dodge vs. Spy Machine – Purple Heart Post Commanders Walter Martin and Luis Rivera do their own investigation of the VA’s surveillance van.
About the Author: Rosebrock is a U.S. Army Veteran, Vietnam War-era, HQ USARHAW, Schofield Barracks. He is Director of The Veterans Revolution and Co-Director of We the Veterans, and a Member of the American Legion Press Association. DutysCalling@aol.com
cops is cops get used to it maybe huh?
"Get used to it like hell"
g
Stewart – better yet, get used to The Veterans Revolution and stand-up Veterans like Walter Martin and Luis Rivera. There’s a new watchdog on duty, and you, and the VA had better get used to it.
mmm lets see now?
revolution…veterans revolution? gvt reservation, with duly sworn police….tell you what? whaddya say ya’ll start the revolution with out me okay?
oh? and by the way? there is this silly little nugget, cops is cops after all ya know?
Penal Code
148. (a) (1) Every person who willfully resists, delays, or obstructs any public officer, peace officer, or an emergency medical technician, as defined in Division 2.5 (commencing with Section 1797) of the Health and Safety Code, in the discharge or attempt to discharge any duty of his or her office or employment, when no other punishment is prescribed, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment.
2008 FEDERAL SENTENCING GUIDELINES MANUAL
CHAPTER 2 – PART J – OFFENSES INVOLVING THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE
§2J1.2. Obstruction of Justice
(a) Base Offense Level: 14
(b) Specific Offense Characteristics
(1) (Apply the greatest):
Statutory Provisions: 18 U.S.C. §§ 1001 (when the statutory maximum term of eight years’ imprisonment applies because the matter relates to international terrorism or domestic terrorism, or to sex offenses under 18 U.S.C. § 1591 or chapters 109A, 109B, 110, or 117 of title 18, United States Code), 1503, 1505-1513, 1516, 1519. For additional statutory provision(s), see Appendix A (Statutory Index).
Application Notes:
1. Definitions.—For purposes of this guideline:
"Domestic terrorism" has the meaning given that term in 18 U.S.C. § 2331(5).
"International terrorism" has the meaning given that term in 18 U.S.C. § 2331(1).
"Records, documents, or tangible objects" includes (A) records, documents, or tangible objects that are stored on, or that are, magnetic, optical, digital, other electronic, or other storage mediums or devices; and (B) wire or electronic communications.
"Substantial interference with the administration of justice" includes a premature or improper termination of a felony investigation; an indictment, verdict, or any judicial determination
based upon perjury, false testimony, or other false evidence; or the unnecessary expenditure of substantial governmental or court resources.
Background: This section addresses offenses involving the obstruction of justice generally prosecuted under the above-referenced statutory provisions. Numerous offenses of varying seriousness may constitute obstruction of justice: using threats or force to intimidate or influence a juror or federal officer; obstructing a civil or administrative proceeding; stealing or altering court records; unlawfully intercepting grand jury deliberations; obstructing a criminal investigation; obstructing a state or local investigation of illegal gambling; using intimidation or force to influence testimony, alter evidence, evade legal process, or obstruct the communication of a judge or law enforcement officer; or causing a witness bodily injury or property damage in retaliation for providing testimony, information or evidence in a federal proceeding. The conduct that gives rise to the violation may, therefore, range from a mere threat to an act of extreme violence.
The specific offense characteristics reflect the more serious forms of obstruction. Because the conduct covered by this guideline is frequently part of an effort to avoid punishment for an offense that the defendant has committed or to assist another person to escape punishment for an offense, a cross reference to §2X3.1 (Accessory After the Fact) is provided. Use of this cross reference will provide an enhanced offense level when the obstruction is in respect to a particularly serious offense, whether such offense was committed by the defendant or another person.
Historical Note: Effective November 1, 1987. Amended effective November 1, 1989 (see Appendix C, amendments 172-174); November 1, 1991 (see Appendix C, amendment 401); January 25, 2003 (see Appendix C, amendment 647); November 1, 2003 (see Appendix C, amendment 653); October 24, 2005 (see Appendix C, amendment 676); November 1, 2006 (see Appendix C, amendment 690); November 1, 2007 (see Appendix C, amendment 701).
If what da cops were doing Sunday was “legal,” the surveillance van would not have left the “scene of the crime” and the two brave commanders would’ve been arrested. Stop pandering to the criminals and throwing Veterans under the bus for your own self-righteousness. Lest you’ve forgotten, this country was founded upon a Revolution because of this same kind of dastardly behavior on innocent people. You are no doubt a plant by the VA so tell them to read the Act of 1887 and the Deed of 1888 before passing judgment on those who are trying to defend this sacred land, which states six times in the deed: “to be permanently maintained as a National Home for Disabled Volunteer Soldiers.” There are 20,000 homeless Veterans in Los Angeles, yet this is their rightful “Home.” If you think a public park for the wealthy neighboring community serves our Veterans best, then we know where your allegiance is. Da cops are da cops because of cave-ins like you.
Oh wow, Mr. Resmer,
Honestly, I see your angle, but sir, can you not consider all factors in this situation? First of all, I am a newly retired veteran after many missions into Iraq, Afghanistan and Kuwait since 2003. Secondly, and concurrently during my 20 years of military service, I was a reserve police officer in Los Angeles. I did it for free, went through the same training and probation as regular officers, worked thousands of field hours, mostly in a black and white on patrol, and attained the highest rating of level 1 line reserve early on, so, I understand what you are putting out there by quoting 148 CPC; however, I am not sure if you understand the concept of the “spirit and letter of the law?” I think the term speaks for itself, and how it was or was not applied here. Then again, I don’t know, I wasn’t there (sincere question: where you?).
One thing is obvious, federal land = federal law and the California Penal Code doesn’t apply. That really doesn’t matter though, because we know federal law has a similiar statute. You mentioned a US Code that vaguely might apply; though clearly the intent of the MOPH commanders was known to the officers, as were their identities, especially upon presentation of federal IDs. Being told they aren’t good enough? That’s like a street cop coming onto your private property, where someone has parked a vehicle, and telling you you can’t check out a car on your land. Think about it. When you know an officer is violating the law, you surely have the right to argue (1st ammendment regardless). And having a badge I do hate to say that, BUT, I’m not like those VA employees who will cover for the other who takes 3 hours out of the day to watch TV, or who steals a case of paper, I believe people should not wrong others. That Cmdrs Martin & Rivera suspected something of that unmarked van, on our land, and chose to investigate and take photos of it, especially with no plates and a few gardening tools against it… ??? Hmmm, so many gardeners in LA are so honest. That aside, with terrorist acts a threat on our doorstep, is it not our responsibility to look into a suspicious vehicle on federal land, close to a group of veterans? Suspecting it to be snooping feds or not, I’d sure as heck check it out. And you don’t think those distinguished commanders got purple hearts by sitting back and not putting themselves in harms way, do you? I think I saw an article you wrote on grunt.com saying how you helped a female officer fight off four buttheads. Very admirable. I applaud your trust and loyalty to law enforcement and can understand your reasoning for your post. Please consider, though, that the peaceful demonstration has been going on on that corner every week for months. The police know these veterans and have tried to run ‘em off before, always backing down and making no arrests. It’s pretty brain dead of them to keep repeating this, don’t you think? They already have shown they aren’t going to arrest the veterans, even though veterans have told them to please go ahead. It has been a long known policy to just keep the peace at demonstrations, and keep people off the streets if they’re small demonstrations.
In brotherhood
Ernie Poulin
I’m sorry, I just had to add these quotes I saw in one of Mr. Barnes (I think it was) articles on this site:
To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men”
Abraham Lincoln
There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.”
Elie Wiesel
Even as a street cop, I still had empathy for people who were fighting for right in a peaceful way.
Ernie Poulin
I say give them hell and keep up the great work!
No one else will protect such sacred land other than REAL VETS!
Jim you are so right, if vets don’t stand up for vets, who is, not the Congress as this admin calls us extremist….well we need support for HR 2254 from these so called elected officals.
Enough have died from the effects of AO and now the Gulf boys and girls are going thru the same BS as we have….deny, deny till you die
I say fire them all and put real veterans in charge of the VA.
COMBAT VETERAN MAJ DUANE B FISH US ARMY AND US ARMY NATIONAL GUARD KOREA,IRAQ,WAR VETERAN. US ARMY RETIRED. 29 YEARS. SEND’S YOU A SALUTE .
Makes me wonder what will try next since the van scam didn’t work. Good work Commanders!
Hmmmmmm, wonder if the ‘gardener?’ was a member of the ‘purple heart bandage brigade’, offshoot of the ‘kombat keyboarders’, but he doesn’t look like he’s laughing and enjoying as they did their little bandages. Might be a ‘bogeyman terrrrrorist’ though, so watch out next time fella’s!!
Good work!!!! Hope Boxer, Filmore and whoever is the representative for the area get some 8 X 10 glossies along with your complaints. OH and add in the White house and Shinsenki to the list of recipients
Though Robert can be less than diplomatic with journalists (to say the least), he nevertheless should be credited for one of the best lines this reporter has read in a while: “The government’s silver Ford van with blackened windows and no license plates was as conspicuous as a drag queen in a football team huddle.”
I wish the situation were as funny but it surely is not. We will be including this excellent information in our upcoming expanded coverage regarding environmental and systemic problems with the West LA VA at http://www.EnviroReporter.com and in print.
Great work. Martin and Rivera are to be commended for weeding out this “gardener.”
Yes a great line and article by Rosebrock. Too bad he does not receive a salary for all he is doing for Veterans.
The VA has become a terrorist group against all veterans of the US.
When is congress going to do something about. Does Congress have the guts to call the VA down and start from the top down and fire all those SOBs. My salute to Commanders Walter Martin and Luis Rivera.
That Van Is in Violation of California Vehicle Code. No plates displayed or regrsitration displayed no front plate no back plate. how dose the responding officer know reather the vehicle is stolen or not ?
Don’t matter federal land not subject to calif law
But just goes to show how untrained the VA “keystones” are. ……..1st rule of surveillance don’t attract attention
I am a young combat vet from ohio that has been in put into the policy of deny till you die. first off credit is due to the commanders…. great job! now my thoughts on the situation. how many of these “gardening vans” are out there? and what would the price of one of these vans plus equipment be? maybe the cost of a knee operation how about a couple ex-rays at the least. all of the vets getting turned down every day cause of another loop hole the bean counters have found. if they would not have hired/purchased that van and the funds for that van went to proper channels how many vets would have had an easier time getting what is entitled to them.
This young Veteran asks all the right questions ….
It is a sad day in the USA when our own Government has to spy on their own Veterans that have given their all to serve this wonderful country. Especially two Heroes who have Purple Hearts. God bless them and the “Old USA”.
Bunch of goons going off half-cocked. Sure showed their asses again.
Oh by the way, I’m not talking about the VA personnel here.
The author of this article needs to read THE book about the 1932 Bonus March in DC
before he starts writing this up like it was a Gestapo atrocity in the Warsaw Ghetto.
Was it embarrassing ? – Yes. Did it make the VA look like paranoid bureaucrats ?
So, what else is new ?
Sorry, this 4th of July I will fly my US flag properly. In the grand scheme of things,
this isn’t near as bad a DVA charlie-foxtrot as the way they handled the dioxin issue,
or the back log of adjudication cases, or the delay in recognizing TBIs etc.
Frankly, this is more like a bad re-run of the silent movie era Max Sennett “Keystone Cops” and should have been regarded as such by the journalist. Just another reason to get the local news media involved so that when another incident like this occurs it gets ALL OVER youtube for all of us to get a good laugh and ensure
local and state politicians understand what the vets in LA are trying to accomplish.
Lem: You need to come to Los Angeles and witness firsthand what has happened to this land and how corrupt the politicians and VA bureaucrats are before pronouncing judgment. And if the local media wasn’t controlled by the wealth and power in the neighboring community that wants this land for a public park, I wouldn’t have to be writing. The last time I checked, we still have freedom of the press and freedom of expression. The U.S. Flag Code, Title 36, U.S.C., Chapter 10, as amended by P. L. 344, 94th Congress, approved July 7, 1976, and under 176, (a) “The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.” Make no mistake; Veterans land at the largest VA in the nation is in extreme danger and so are the lives of Veterans who depend on healthcare services. I too will wave Old Glory rightside up on Independence Day, but on Sunday at our 68th consecutive Rally to “Save Our Veterans Land,” it will be flown upside down as a “Distress Call.” PS: Forget my journalism, a picture is worth a thousand words.
great job veterans
Crisp Salute men, well damned done!
Good Evening Folks,
My position on land is still the same, who cares. The VA is to take care of Veterans and every dollar spent on land or it’s care is money ill spent. If the energy for this effort over a parcel of dirt were directed to getting more Veterans into PTSD clinics, more Veterans into VA healthcare, more timely claims, help in finding Veterans employment it might have meant something but to hold on to some barely used land, thats, well I will stop it here.
As for the silver van, welcome to Bush’s America and the Patriot Act. I’m some what surprised that a van and a surveillance efforts were necessary. Down here in San Diego the grounds have both video and audio surveillance that covers the entire campus and all the interior public places. It’s now a fact of life.
The land is not going anywhere but Veterans are, as in getting older, use the money to make their last years as comfortable as possible and let the goats or whom ever wants it have the da** land.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
Mr. Skinner has asked a couple of important questions. First he wants to know “who cares?” Clearly, veterans from all the wars going back to WWII care. Otherwise, they wouldn’t show up for 68 weeks. The reverse question is whether Skinner cares about the veterans in LA? As for his comment that “the VA is to take care of veterans,” his own experience with the VA makes that statement ludicrous. Next, we have to have someone very clearly and very slowly explain to Mr. Skinner that Bush is no longer president, so Byron needs to awaken to Obama’s Reality. Then the question becomes: How long will you, Mr. Skinner, put up with Obama’s VA before you zero in on him and the old retired General he put in charge of the VA? 4 years? 8 years? Another 4 or 8 with Joe Biden? Will you still be blaming Bush? There are moments in your various responses on this site where it seems body and mind have disconnected from the real world. But that may be due to white sand and beautiful blue skies in San Diego. (Am I being nice or what!)
I’d ask that you consider, Mr. Skinner, that there is great energy put forth toward getting fellow veterans into PTSD groups, signed up for healthcare, pushing for decent claim decisions and Voc Rehab.; however, pressing to make these services better should not, in my opinion anyway, preclude us from fighting against other injustices. And, if necessary, an American Revolution or Million Man March, likely on a smaller scale, is, unfortunately, the only way to make the politicians write more laws to stop the VA administrator leaches from taking our funding for their own use.
In fact, in just my two short years at the GLA Sepulveda VA Ambulatory Center, after having returned from Iraq & Afghanistan missions, I have seen the beauro’Krauts’ take our MRI, and not replace it, take all of our funds from movie studio filming fees, plus and this is in addition to the attempted theft of our West LA land, now they are trying to give away two buildings and acres and acres of our land from our campus! This is instead of opening our hospital back up, or adding more medical clinics to help get more veterans into healthcare, or more employment help or put claims staff to help us more personally, or more rooms for PTSD groups; you know, the things you referenced we need better resources for, as I agree.
Lastly, sir, the goats can’t have the damn land! It was long ago given to veterans ONLY, and that goes for West LA and Sepulveda. Not all of us veterans agree that the VA can speak for us in the distribution of our property largely because the VA staff have their own agenda, and I believe it is mostly to benefit THEM, not us. I have seen it first hand. Don’t get me wrong, I love the medical staff, but the administration… hell, if you don’t have checks and balances… I’ll stop while I’m still calm. – A frustrated Iraqi Freedom Veteran and new retiree
Would the Revolutionary Fathers have said ” Well its only King George, let him have his way”? This country is only 200 years old. Rome lasted 700 years. I fear we don”t have much time left.
I shouldn’t have to point out the blatant criminal violations under both the UCMJ and Civilian Law pertaining to Criminal Code of Law criminal conduct. Particularly the sub statutes which have no renewal statute upheld in court at the congressional level from 1971-1989 pertaining to the use of civilian law enforcement on defense department held property, to include but not limited to direct stewardship of property and persons under stewardship of the Department of Veteran’s Affairs. A very well known, well broadcast case in which the case itself being made public was a criminal offense due to the fact that the case was a closed court, closed door death row case in which 2 of the witness’s were under the age of 6yrs old.
The same statute of law also applies to homeland security performing secret level security clearance to level 9 security clearance background investigations for both the issuance of CDL’s and HAZMAT endorsement clearances.
“When a law enforcement begins to behave as a mob, then the mob it created has all legal authority to overthrow it’s suppressors.” Guess which one of the non-signing Founding Fathers spoke and wrote that statement.
Hats off to all those who raise hell on behalf of veterans.
Laws are by the rich, for the rich.
Obey every law your whole life? Die anyway.
This is a lawless nation.
Do whatever you want
Well done comrads keep up the good work Viet nam veteran
You know you have to give credit where credit is due. It must take a lot of time and work to look up all of these penal codes. If I had the time and the desire to do all of that, I can think of a lot of other things to do for a good purpose, and a lot better things to do than play games with some old Veterans who are standing out there trying to defend something they really believe in. I guess the thing that reaches to my core, is that one of those guys could be my father. But to each his own, as he would have said. He has been dead 33 years now. I’m glad he is not seeing things like this. He loved the United States so much.
Respect your fellow Veterans, and take your, disrespectful, upside down flag and protest somewhere else.
Take your puffed-up self righteousness somewhere else. U.S. Flag Code, Title 36, U.S.C., Chapter 10, as amended by P. L. 344, 94th Congress, approved July 7, 1976, and under 176, (a) “The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.” Since you are clueless to the cause, Veterans’ land is in extreme danger. We will continue to raise it upside down as a “Distress Call.” After 65 Sundays of nobody paying attention, the Distress Call is working. That’s the purpose of the U.S. Code that we abide by. By the way the suveillance van monitoring innocent Veterans who are peacefully demonstrating is what’s illegal, not us turning the American flag upside down.
Remember its Obama’s watch, and he has spoken of his distaste for us vets. Its now the Obama Nation/New Wordl Order. As to where us Vets have no place in it…Obama and the democrats speak of helping, but its all lip service…and for you who voted for the demcrats, shame on you.
Good Morning Folks,
As usual Max is in his own orbit, if he would have any contact with the VA healthcare system he would see that allocated funds the had been frozen have been released and are being spent for long over do items such as hiring mental health care staff for PTSD.
As for Poulin’s statement, I’m not sure of what he is saying. Mr. Poulin is new the VA Healthcare and what he is seeing right now is the system at it’s best, just wait till the wars are over and the public goes back to seeing Veterans as only a budget line item on the balance sheet of evil entitlements. The new Veterans have it good, but take my word for with 43 years in the system it won’t last.
Is their anybody out their gullible enough to think that the VA will continue to provide $50K prosthetic devices and “elective” surgeries. Well I guess so. I have, as have other Veterans who need prosthetic devices and “elective” surgeries to remove worn tissue waited years, there just never enough in the budget. In my case I had screws and ss screen extruding out of my left eye socket and all the Doctor could do was remove the screws with a screw driver and used a pair of wire cutters to cut back the exposed screen. this went on for over three years before some Doc. decided that it had got to the point of where it was no longer non elective surgery.
Welcome to the pre President Obama VA. So far regardless of what some who are not customers of the VA things are improving. During the 8 years of Bush appox $ 5 billion in ALLOCATED funds were transfered out of the VA and into non allocated, non VA use. The only reason at this time for the anti Obama/Shenseki position is just racism, period.
As far as the protests at Sawrell, well they just look plain silly, up side down flags use as protest posters, old guys running around in color coordinated ensemble’s, memories of Sgt. Peppers Marching Band, is that who we are, I don’t think so.
The message being sent here is a strong negative one. This is not different then the guy sticking up a 7/11 wearing “camouflage” with a couple metals pinned on and claiming to be a Veteran. If Veterans are going to go to the streets go for something that means something, not a patch of dirt.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
Skinner, you’ve got the brains of a cork. Why do you waste energy attacking Bush? Were there no problems with VA prior to January of 2001? Did you miss the mess Bush inherited from Clinton (who cut the military in half and downgraded the VA because we didn’t need a big military anymore)?
You want a culprit? Try Congress. Ain’t no money goin’ anywhere unless Congress approves it and provides honorable oversight to stop misuse of the money. But, of course, Congress doesn’t waste time reading bills anymore, does it? As for oversight, hey, talk to Barney Frank about Freddie Mae and Mac.
Your 43 years in the system are either years of success before and after Bush, in which case stop your bitchin’ because you’re well, OR you’re full of crap blaming Bush for a system that has been snafued since time began and will still be screwed up when Obama/Shenseki are long gone. As for racism, are you really that stupid? The crap that is going on now across the country is on THEIR watch, not Bush’s. Obama
can issue Executive Orders all day to change a lot of this, but has he? Nah, he’s off reading from the teleprompter somewhere.
The bottom line, Skinner, is that you care about Skinner and don’t give a damn about any other Veteran – especially the new ones that “have it good.” I continue to keep your name in my Prayer Box. You’ve paid a big price for America and it’s not for me to say whether your bitterness is justified. I just wish you peace.
Mr. Skinner,
I am really not sure it’s worth even replying, but in the hopes you really do want to know what I mean, I’ll simplify it. I simply mean that is that it doesn’t matter what we are protesting. It means something to us, so how can you critcize it? What right does the VA have to sell off land that was donated to the veterans? It was not donated to the administators of the VA to do what they wish with. It was donated to remain with veterans, clear and simple. So why just give up on that? If you are not even using the Greater LA VA system, what would you even disrespect us for? If someone were to squat in your back yard saying you have to sign it over to them and let them pop their tents while your kids live just beyond a window above, should you just give it over and have no worries?
Next, unless I missed it, I saw no racist comments made about Obama or Shinseki on here. I don’t argue that it’s possible there are some dumb a#$es out there who might post comments based on race, but in general? It is my opinion that anyone who brings up racism, with no justification, is just avoiding the facts and making excuses. It’s either that or they are just racist themselves.
Last, if your screen and screws in your eye socket are service connected, I think it is a travesty that the doctor would only snip the extra off in an outpatient setting. Hell, even if it wasn’t service connected. I would be livid and running to congress with that sticking out of my eye. That, then the media. They love to fire up the people. It’d be nice if they did it for truth for a change.
Change comes quickley. You would think that at a peaceful demonstration of veteran’s, you would see uniform police officers present to protect the demontrators and their right to civil desobedience.
The very same veterans who places their lives in harms way to protect this great country. But instead you have surveilance vans and swat teams.
Stewart is a shmuck. “As long as poor people fight rich peoples wars, there will always be poor people, rich people, and wars.” Woody Guthrie.
As active duty Military, we defended the United States and the Constitution. Now as retires and ex-military it looks like we need to join together once again to defend the U.S.A. and the Constitution. The only difference is that now the enemy is “within”! What kind of Government spies on its own veterans and Lables them “Domestic Terrorists”? as done by the Department of Homeland Security.
I, for one, proudly applaud the efforts of VA police. Rushing in, sirens blaring and lights blazing, obviously sparing no expense, and with no thought for their own personal safety or well-being, to ensure that the beauty, honor, property of our VA grounds be properly manicured and tended. Obviously, the Purple Heart Veterans hate horticulture. Even more proudly, I applaud that fat gardener for not abandoning his post until properly relieved. The VA police and that gardener clearly demonstrate the Obama Administration’s acknowledgment of, and commitment to, the nation’s Veterans.
you should be aware that if the individuals were on va property then under va reg 1.218 sec 9 (unauthorized demonstration on va prop or cemetery 50$ fine, sec 12 failure to depart premisis 50$, unath assembly 50$ ,unath photgraphy 15$, disturb the peace ( crim) so the cops were capable of that if it is va prop. If not then they have no reason to be there. As far a surveillance van, that seems odd unless they were waiting for any legit crime to occur. Also a purple heart hat and shirt is no id. And they can ask for his drivers lic since he was observed driving up to the van. Then you could run a lic check to see if its active and if not hit him with that too. That is why his mil id was not good enough. This is from a 10% dis vet from 2 deployments 03-04 gitmo prison and 07-08 camp travis, baghdad iraq infantry. And a mass va officer.I am not impressed with purple hearts considering i know an mp who got one in cuba for takin a beating from a detainee and 2 infantryman from iraq who didnt. 1 cuz his unit didnt do paperwork rihht even though he was shot and spent 3 months in bed, and another who was ” hurt enough” in an ied blast though his vic was destroyed. Finally fly the flag properly, and stop whining you friggin pogs.
Wow! talk about a whining pog. You are absolutely clueless about the facts, but who cares so long as you throw Purple Heart Veterans under the surveillance van while thumping your chest about being a 10% disability vet. The two brave Purple Heart Veterans you shamelessly try to belittle are 100% disability Vietnam War Combat Veterans! They rightfully challenged the illegal surveillance van spying on our peaceful demonstration. Consequently, it was the van that left the scene and the two Purple Heart Veterans remained. Simplly put, it was the van that was there without property authority. But what the heck, blame Veterans and uphold the sleazy VA bureaucrats in a selfish, know-it-all attempt to make yourself look good. And the U.S. Flag is flying properly … in “Distress!” Obviously, you are totally clueless about the U.S. Flag Code and our own Mission to “Save Our Veterans Land,” i.e., our “property is in danger.” Why don’t leave real Veterans issues to those who know the facts. Go and join the rest of the self-serving, whining pogs like yourself who are simply trying to suck up to the VA at the expense of dedicated Veterans that are looking out for each other and to protect our property.
Pog means people other than grunts which i can tell from your complaining that you probably are a remf. The battle for vets you choose to fight is save our grass. Not better health care for wounded warriors but lets save our land. Great job war heroes. There are soliers wounded in battles in afghanistan and iraq and you losers are worrying about some patch of grass. Way to pick the most trivial subject to protest about. Not better support for dependents of injured soldiers and their proper care but “your” land. I’m not impressed with a 100% disabled so called hero when he spends his day being fighting for the least important thing ive ever heard of. How about soldiers returning missing limps who dont have 100% and cant afford their medical bills. I’d love to poll all you protesters to see how many of you actually saw combat in vietnam and not just went to vietnam. I cant tell you how many times i hear a guy say you dont know what i saw man! Only to find out in 1975 he was 15 yrs old. Thats why i have a hard time believing alot of you people. Or the “combat vet” who come to find out was a cook on a ship. I applaud those who serve but lets not make a hero out of everyone that showed up. Maybe if you guys were out their worrying about issues more important to vets than a patch of grass were drunks and drug addicts can go and use then show up at the va trying to get admitted for detox cuz they blame “the war” for their problems and not their own bad life choices, maybe you’d get more support or be more relevant. I don’t find your concerns about property you dont own being infringed upon as warranting the distress signal you employ. I think maybe youre perverting things to suit you just like your bs cause. Just like all the complaining you do about nothing invalidating vets with real issues to argue with the govt. Congrats for being so useless. And i think its fantastic that yoy dont address any of the facts i lay on you just talk about ” the van”. Screw the van dude the issue is why dont you help the csuses that real vets care about like their healthcare, not a place for homeless guys to booze up before falling apart at the va er.
I know precisely what pog stands for and its chest thumping braggarts like you who coin such phrases and think that if someone didn’t serve in your particular unit, they didn’t serve. I also know what a grunt is: “a low-ranking or unskilled soldier.” I have more respect for those who bore the brunt of the battle to call them such a degrading and useless name, but if that is how you look at yourself, then so be it. Sadly, your own service becomes irrelevant because you are too wrapped up in your bloated ego to appreciate the other 26 million Veterans who served just as equally as you. Thus, it’s too bad you have such hatred and animosity toward anyone who wasn’t in your rifle squad. It’s all about you and your service as you whine and complain about why everyone isn’t honoring you with a parade or showering you with benefits. Why don’t you spend more time being productive instead of destructive? And lest you’ve forgotten, without Veterans’ land there are no healthcare facilities to provide healthcare services that you complain about. But with the self-righteous “screw other Veterans” attitude that you have, perhaps you should apply for the executive grunt’s job at the Los Angeles VA. Then you can get paid big bucks for being such a worthless and useless contributor toward our fellow Veterans.
Well thank you for confirming the fact that you weren’t infantry by flatly stating that grunt is derogatory. We infantryman in the Army and USMC consider the term a badge of honor. As far as “unskilled” i won’t hold that against you because its right out of the dictionary and i know you had to look up the term before replying. Replying but not addressing any of the questions i asked you regarding why you care more about land than men. Also the spin you attempt to put on my words is a decent effort at trying to cover the fact that you have no answers to any of my questions. I will let my words speak for themselves. Another decent tactic is to try to imply i dont care about vets or resort to character attacks. There is another indicator that your not quite the “peace loving vet advocate” you make yourself out to be. Its a real simple person that when they get slayed in a debate with facts resorts to those lame transparent tactics. So lets talk character If i had to guess by your writings, question dodging, and inability to refute any of my statements i would put you at maybe 2 years AD drafted, never higher than E4, and defintely never in country. Closest to any warzone you got was maybe a korean restaurant. I do however applaud your service. And if you win your battle to secure that land from the “evil” govt that pays for everyones disability claims including your heroes, i hope you have fun camping and so fourth. Just make sure you ask a nearby “dumb” Grunt to help you set up your hooch.
I also like how you call anyone that disagrees with you self righteous. You did it to two guys above and me a few times. Also you have quite a set on you to think you can say,”Sadly, your own service becomes irrelevant because you are too wrapped up in your bloated ego to appreciate the other 26 million Veterans who served just as equally as you.” I was going to laugh it off as more bs till I saw your about section and saw how right i was about you and how it all makes sense now. You feel guilty at 60 because when you had your chance to volunteer to fight you opted to stay in Hawaii and watch caskets of real heroes come off the plane. I like how you use the term Vietnam Era Vet two. Another typical goldbricker term used by guys that wish they did more but didn’t. You are an army vet. Yes by proclamation you are a Vietnam era vet but your not really. And that it why when a real combat vet calls you out you try to attack his character. Well It may be self righteous to say but how does it feel to know me and my friends have more in common with those real vietnam vets than you ever will? I had the honor of standing next to my buddy in combat and you just feel guilty for not and develop crushes on guys that did. It’s sad really how transparent you are now that I looked into you a bit. How about Secretary Shinseki? He’s a combat vet too is that why your so bent outta shape? By the way, how was the weather in Hawaii when 58,000 heroes were coming home in caskets and you did virtually nothing but surf?
I can’t stand your repeated use of matching consonants, either. Such as in your title to this article which is like a tougue twister. Is that what they taught you in a journalism class at community college that you paid for with your GI Bill from the “Big Bad VA”. While men fought and died you learned to rhyme and make people spit on their screens while they read your titles. Congradulations.
If you are going to attack me personally, be a man and put up your full name. Otherwise, your baseless and shameless comments are as empty and irrelevant as “Sean.”
This so called revolution sounds just like 9/11 truthers, a bunch of inconsiquential boobs with to much time on there hands.Or could it be theres a new generation of vets and somebodies feeling neglected.It uselly holds true that those who protest to loudly have done the least.
There are three kinds of people; those that make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who have no idea what’s happening. You obviously comprise the latter two. Since you are clueless, check out: “Old Veterans Who Refuse to Just Fade Away.”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5806.
And if you are going to attack the Veterans Revolution and our noble cause, put up your full name. Otherwise, keep your baseless and shameless comments to yourself.
What do you mean wrong verification code-asshole? Don’t like free speech and refuse to post messages from those who disagree with your acrimonious diatribes. Let’s see if you have the fairness to post disparate opinions, pal!!!
Hey grunt: First, I’m not your pal. Secondly, who said anything about wrong verfication code? I said that you aren’t man enough to put your real name up — you’re a coward hiding behind your mama’s apron. What’s the matter, are afraid to put your real name out there? Calling me an asshole and not putting up your real name is not “free speech?” It’s called being a coward! Your a phony and a fraud!
Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQlm2ftBabo
I think the previous video was pulled by YouTube for copyright. Another link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-B7MpH9sAA
Hey grunt: I don’t need to be looking at some phony youtube copyright infringement or anything else from you. I’m my own man and don’t hide from anyone. Go spit on your computer screen … AGAIN!
Look at your phony self in the mirror and spit on yourself d-bag. If you’re this asshole tough guy who doesn’t hide from anyone:publish your address and home phone so everybody can call you. Doubtless,you publish anything but more bull-crap. Let’s have a face with a name, if Bob Rosebrock is your real name: put a link up with your video on YouTube.com, talking tough to all vets!
I give 2 shiites if you don’t like it. Deal with your own fraud and arguing with total strangers who care less about your arrogant ego. Better check yourself in to the nearest VA with Psych facilities to deal with your anger issues:-) Bob!
Sean Grunt Hutchinson: You need to go back and re-read my article and your comments. I never criticized any Veterans, never have, unless they are in bed with the enemy. In this case, the VA police and you support them and not even Purple Heart Veterans. You bash homeless Veterans and those with alochol and drug addiction while supporting VA police as you spit on the title of this article. You are no doubt one of the buffoons who works for the VA.
NO-I don’t work for the VA. However, I have received adequate medical care. You need to re-read my comments. Although I disagree with some of your methods: flying US Flag upside down and telling other vets who don’t support your methods 100% to spit on themselves;the cause to protect VA land/bldgs for veterans is a noble one. However, vets need more than land;they also need increased access to medical care and help for homeless vets. I never said I opposed the need for better VA access/care for ALL vets. Your derisive salutation HEY GRUNT means nothing. Most 11B Infantrymen regard it as a badge of honor. Feel free to insult other 11Bravos. I don’t know nor care what your MOS was during Vietnam. I take back my previous comments about REMF MOS. ALL Combat Arms branches rely upon REMF soldiers to support the combat mission. If you served in such capacity, I thank you! Disregard those negative comments/profanity. We cannot accomplish our mission without Combat Support/Combat Service Support branch soldiers. Your spurious assumption that I work for the VA and don’t care about homeless vets has no merit. Don’t forget-many VA Police are also vets. If you have problems with them, I suggest taking it up with their chain-of-command. Bitching about it here gets you attention;but, it hardly gets any officer disciplined or terminated from the VA. I would definitely assert your legal rights, if you believe VA Police violated your civil rights at your organization’s rally. I wish you luck! You need not attack/accuse fellow vets before you know their position. You can help other vets and still remain an irascible fool, as lucidly shown by your insolent comments. Good Luck+Have A Nice Day!!!
BRAVO……..show up those Gestapo types for what they are, morons.
Keep up the good work. I’ll picket with you.
My dad and mom are WW2 vets. Dad was battle wounded made paraplegic and a member of Disabled American Vets, American Legion Granda Hills post, Purple Heart member. Mom is in the Auxs and retired RN from Sepulveda VA hospital.
Thank you and thanks to your parents for the Honorable Duty to our Country. We look forward to seeing you at our Sunday Rallies. This Sunday, October 11th, will be our 81st consecutive Sunday Rally. We meet at 1:00 – 4:00 PM at the Northeast corner of Wilshire and San Vicente Boulevards, adjacent to Brentwood.
I am a military veteran of 10 years and law enforcement for 20. I have no problem with the weekly peaceful protest/activities and demonstration, nor do I have a problem with law enforcement monitoring the situation, so as to ensure it remains peaceful and no one gets out of control, and violates state or federal law, due to someone becoming overly emotional and “crossing the line”. To me it is no different than security cameras being posted throughout VA, or any other federal or state property. Clearly, I will concede that the tactics employed to carry out the monitoring activity lacked a great deal of common sense, but they were not in the wrong to monitor activity near their assigned property. It’s not personal, it’s just the business of security. POST 9/11 ramped it all up, everywhere…. so yes, with regard to that; Get used to it because it aint going away.
To: Congressman Jo Bonner 15 Dec, 2009
From: Jerry Woodward
Subject: Harassed by the Biloxi VA Medical Center’s security police.
Dear Congressman Bonner
My name is Jerry R. Woodward. My address is 2215 Spring Grove East, Mobile, Al, 36695. Phone number is 251-776-3681.
Congressman Bonner, first, I do not like to have to contact you or your office again, but I am a veteran and a former employee of the VA Medical Center in Biloxi. I was fired from the VA and I have already filed a Whistle Blowers Protection claim with the Office of Special Counsel and we are in the process of doing a settlement after the Office of Special Counsel looked at my case and saw that I was being retaliated against after disclosures I made. I was labeled / targeted as a (Whistle Blower) by the managers I had worked for and reported to the OSC in my disclosures.
On 14 Dec 2009, I called the Union President at the VA Hospital in Biloxi, MS. I asked John Mechanic if he would mail me a copy of a CD I had given him with information about my case. I explained to him my copy was lost. Mr. Mechanic said it would be better if I came by and picked up the CD and make myself another copy. I already had another appointment in Biloxi with (Kaye Persons) my lawyer the next day to look at a settlement agreement the VA is offering me to drop charges I filed with the Office of Special Counsel for retribution after I gave them disclosures and reported retaliation to them as well.
On 15 Dec, 2009 I went to the Biloxi VA Medical Center to meet with John Mechanic, my union President.
When our business together was over, I was walking to my car and noticed a VA police drive by. He turned around as I was putting my things in my car and pulled into a space about two cars from me.
I pulled out of my space and proceeded to leave the property. He pulled up a little and I stopped and waved the right away to him. He did not move so I proceeded to drive away and he pulled out and followed me, right on my tail. I noticed my radar detector started going off. It is legal in Mississippi to own and operate a detector.
I drove very slowly through the parking lot and he followed very close all the way to the exit gate when he then turned on his lights for me to stop. I stopped and he walked up to my car and I asked what I had done. He said I did not have my head lights on. I told him it is day time as it was already 9 am. He explained it is a state law in Mississippi to have on your lights when you have on your windshield wipers. I noticed it was not raining but there was a small mist in the air so I had my wipers on as slow as possible. I said I did not know about the Mississippi law as I live in Alabama not Mississippi.
He asked for my driver’s license and vehicle registration and insurance and I gave them to him. He ran my information and came back to my car and said” Mr. Woodward, you are no longer an employee here so what is your business here today. I explained to him that I had an appointment with John in the Union office. I also told him I was a Veteran as well and sometimes come here for medical appointments if I have to.
He said Mr. Woodward; you are allowed to come here for appointments only and can not be here for any other reason. I told him I live 120 miles round trip and do not come here unless I have official business or an appointment here. He said Mr. Woodward, you are trespassing. I asked how am I am trespassing when I just told you I was here for an appointment with the Union President. He said you are trespassing and to let this be a warning.
I told him I do have a case pending with the VA and that one of his guys is upset with me. I told him Mark Jenkins was his name. He said he did not work for Mark Jenkins. I ask why are you telling me I am trespassing and how is it you know who I am and why are you doing this. I asked how he already knew so much about me. He said he is just an informed policeman and that I was trespassing and I needed to take that as a warning.
I said I am going to have to contact my Congressman again and he said go ahead. I then left the property as I was on my way to my lawyers office to see the new settlement agreement the VA is offering me if I will drop charges I filed with the OSC.
I called John Mechanic at the Union and told him what happened. He said it sounds like they are harassing you and have identified your car. I ask why they would need to do that. He said he did not know other than they are just harassing you.
I also contacted the VA police to get his name. Fred Moser is the officer that said I was trespassing even after I explained to him I was there for an appointment with the Union President. I am sure he was told by someone to tell me this as it seemed he was trying to get me worked up so he could arrest me or site me for something.
I have also contacted the Patient Advocates office there to find out if I need to inform the VA Police when I come there for medical appointments. She said no, my name was not on their list but there is a list of people that do have to check in with the police. I asked her to please find out why the police there are harassing me. She said she would look into it for me.
I just want it to go on record that now I am being harassed for no reason when I go to the Biloxi VA Medical center. John, my union president said they should give me a reason as to why I was told I was trespassing when I had already explained I was there for a meeting with him.
I was told a few weeks ago that one of he Investigators (Mark Jenkins) was asking people I know at the VA medical center if they had seen me at the VA, however he did not say why. Mr. Jenkins seems to have a grudge against me because he was the Investigator that was investigating my manager and co-workers and he did not want to tell the Administration he was doing an investigation. When I went to the HR Director to ask if I should do anything else, the HR Director went to the Director of the hospital, which ended Mr. Jenkins investigation and I think Mr. Jenkins caught some heat from the Director / Administration for not letting them know what he was doing. Mr. Jenkins had also brought in a VAOIG investigator and told me it was because the VAOIG investigator did not work for or have to answer to the Director of the Hospital. I thought that was strange that he would not want to tell the Director of the hospital about the investigation.
Mr. Jenkins had also told his neighbor that he thought two of the guys were going to get fired. This person works at the VA Hospital and came to me and told me what Mark Jenkins had told her. She is a department head and did not have a need to know what was going on with the situation. After she told me what Mr. Jenkins had said, I notice Mr. Jenkins a few days latter out side and I approached him. I wanted to see if Mr. Jenkins would tell me what he hade told this other person. I mentioned that is seems these guys were going to keep their jobs even after all of the disclosures I had given the VA. We talked and I also told him the guys were still not checking out the medical equipment.
A few days latter Jay Tripp (Chief of Engineering) called me and told me to meet him at the VA police office that afternoon. When I arrived at the police office Mr. Jenkins, Jay Tripp, David Boggs, the VAOIG officer and Mark Jenkins boss were all there.
I Mr. Jenkins said he called the meeting because of the conversation we had about the guys keeping their jobs and still not checking the equipment. During this meeting I noticed Mr. Jenkins was upset about me going to the HR Director and ending his investigation. After Jay Tripp and Dave Boggs left the room at the end of the first part of this meeting, The VAOIG Investigator, Mark Jenkins and I stayed for another meeting. I was told by the VAOIG investigator that he had told the Director of the hospital that he had a leak in his hospital and he chewed out the Director. He then was told by the Director that I had gone to the HR Director and I was the so called leak. I explained to them I had asked the HR acting Director to give me time to go to Jay Tripp before he said anything. They were also mad about that because they did not want anyone to know about their investigation. I did not bring up the fact that the reason I had made my comments to Mark Jenkins was only to try to see if he would tell me the same thing he had told his neighbor and a department head and a friend of mine.
Congressman Bonner, Mr. Jenkins has my phone number and email address as we have spoken and sent emails to each other many times, so I do not understand why he can not contact me directly if he needs to talk to me.
Will you please find out why this police officer harassed me telling me I was trespassing even after he had just asked why I was there and I had just told him I was there for official business with the Union President?
I have no problem stopping by the VA police office every time I go there for any appointments I may have there.
Why after I severed 23 ½ years in the United States Army I am trespassing on a government owned facility that specifically takes care of Veterans like myself. I did tell the patient advocate if the Mobile Clinic were to send me to the Biloxi Hospital for something that can not be done at the Mobile Clinic and the VA Police harass me again I will just leave without going to my appointment. I will not be harassed because this guy (Mark Jenkins) has a grudge against me for ending his investigation he did not want anyone to know he was doing. That was not my ideal to not tell the Administration, it was the VA police that did not want to tell the Director.
Furthermore, I do understand I need to be there for official business or appointments and not just visiting friends as that say can not be done, and I did tell this officer I was there to talk with the Union President. The officer watched me walk out of the Union building, asked me what my business was there and I told him, and he still told me I was trespassing an to let this be a warning after I explained to him why I was there.
I would also like to have a meeting with you when you are back in Mobile, Alabama. This stuff has got to end.
Thank you for your assistance again.
Jerry Woodward.
Maybe if the VA was only allowed to hire Veterans then the VA would be looking out for Veterans not working against them!!!!