FACEBOOK
TWITTER
Part Two: American Veterans who await deportation
Few options for veterans who await deportation
Some say their military service merits special consideration
By Steve Liewer, Union-Tribune left: American Veteran Fernando Cervantes held a bill that would spare the Army veteran from being deported. (Hiram Soto / Union-Tribune news)
As a 7-year-old, Fernando Cervantes emigrated legally from Mexico to Texas with his mother in 1961. At 18, in the waning days of the Vietnam War, he enlisted in the Army. Cervantes donned the khaki uniform, raised his right hand and swore to defend the Constitution. “I thought it was my patriotic duty,” he said.
Thirty-two years after his honorable discharge, Cervantes is wearing the bright-orange shirt of a detainee at the El Centro Service Processing Center, where he has been held since the end of a three-year prison term last year for possession of methamphetamine for sale.
Barring an act of Congress, he will be deported to Mexico, a country he hasn’t visited since 1970. "I have no one in Mexico.
Everything in my life is here," said Cervantes, 55, of Victorville, CA. "It’s very scary."
About 32,000 foreign-born detainees await deportation at roughly 350 facilities nationwide – including the one in El Centro and another in Otay Mesa – operated by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement [ICE] or its contractors.
An estimated 45 percent are legal residents who committed crimes ranging from murder to drug possession and were turned over to ICE after their prison terms.
No one has a reliable count of how many of them served in the U.S. armed forces. Rob Baker, field director of ICE’s San Diego office, ventured an estimate of half a percent, or fewer than 200 nationwide. Veterans Advocate Jan Ruhman of Rancho Bernardo, a Vietnam War vet who works with several pro-peace Veterans groups, believes the figure is about 3,000.
[Note: Veterans Today is awaiting documented evidence of how accurate the number really is before making a commitment on actual number, but even 200 is one too many. Even in the incidence of murder, the Veteran should be tried and convicted as "any" American Soldier would be. Held in a U.S. prison not deported nor lose the citizenship they earned more than most people born here].
The message we have for the 141 U.S. troops naturalized in Baghdad back in 2007 and any legal or illegal immigrant thinking about joining the Army, or Marines is this: Whatever the total, the deportation of Veterans raises serious questions about our government’s responsibility to foreign-born noncitizens who have worn the uniform and, in some cases, shed blood in America’s defense. Especially after our government has gone all out on a sales campaign to attract immigrants into fighting and dying for our nation and then abandoned them or worse yet detain and treat them like any other terrorist. Minus the torture we pray.
Detained veterans believe they merit special consideration because of their military service. Some have sought out lawyers to press their case and have written letters to legislators, both to no avail.
[Politicians, as in the case of Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina are quick to sell the military to Immigrants as they eloquently speak at stage Naturalization ceremonies for propaganda purposes to add to the sales pitch, and in order to avoid the draft but remain silent when the sales pitch goes sour or a few hundred to a few thousands of these lured with promises of U.S. citizenship end up facing deportation. VT]
"There’s people like me who will step up and defend this country," said Rohan Coombs, 45, a Jamaica-born Marine and Persian Gulf War veteran from Tustin, CA who was stationed at Camp Pendleton for part of his six-year tenure.
He served time for drug crimes and is now at the El Centro facility.
"I’m not saying I’m a saint, but I think I deserve the right to stay here," Coombs said.
Heather Boxeth, a San Diego attorney who handles criminal defense and immigration cases, is representing Coombs and another detained veteran for free.
"I’m not from a military family, and I’m not an Army brat," she said. "But I thought there was something wrong with this."
Plenty of people, though, said living in the United States is a privilege that foreigners forfeit with criminal behavior – even if they’re veterans.
"If they’ve not gotten citizenship, I have no qualms about deporting them," said retired Marine Lt. Col. Tom Richards of Rancho Bernardo, a decorated Vietnam War veteran who heads the state’s Legion of Valor. "The moral of the story is, you shouldn’t become a convicted felon."
Rep. Duncan D. Hunter, R-Lakeside, is an Iraq war veteran who has helped foreign-born Marines under his command become U.S. citizens. He said veterans who have committed crimes deserve due process, but no more.
"If the law says you get deported, then that’s what happens," Hunter said.
[Republican Duncan Hunter (or his father if he was an Iraq War Vet) ran in the Republican primaries against Senator John McCain among others with strong right-wing Veteran support from pro-war and nationalistic groups like Gathering of Eagles. The same type Swift Boat Veterans for Bush "swifties" types who smeared the military reputations of Max Cleland, John Kerry, John Murtha, and of course John McCain (twice 2000 and 2008) VT].
Until 1996, the law subjected foreigners to deportation only for the most serious crimes and gave immigration judges wide latitude to consider special circumstances.
[The question remains how special do Immigration Judges, especially if they or theirs refuse to serve in the Armed Forces really treat military service to our nation in balancing their decisions. In most case, Immigration judges are ICE officials not federal judges in the true sense of the word. VT]
1996, as part of a broad revision of immigration laws, [commonly known as illegal immigrant amnesty], Congress expanded the list of aggravated felonies for which foreign-born residents can be deported and greatly limited judicial discretion. The revised list includes murder, kidnapping, rape and other violent crimes as well as forgery, theft and possession of drugs with the intent to sell.
"It sounds really good: Let’s deport people who commit crimes. But usually, it’s not significant crimes," said Army Reserve Lt. Col. Margaret Stock, an attorney in Alaska who volunteers with the American Immigration Lawyers Association’s Military Assistance Program.
Most of the veterans facing deportation were convicted of drug possession, Stock and other lawyers said.
Incarcerated Veteran Coombs said he started smoking marijuana frequently after his wife, Pamela, died in 2001 from diabetes-related complications.
"It started out as something that helped me go to sleep," said Coombs, former manager of a Frazee Paint store. "To support my habit, I started getting a little extra (to sell)." He has been arrested three times and imprisoned once for marijuana violations.
Cervantes, a journeyman carpenter, started using methamphetamine in the early 1980s while working two jobs to support his wife and two children. Three times he has served jail terms of less than a year for producing, holding or selling drugs. A fourth conviction in 2006, for sale and possession of less than 1 gram of meth, landed him in state prison and, eventually, in El Centro [under California's three strikes law.VT]
"For all these years, I thought I was an American citizen" because of the military service, Cervantes said. "To say that I was surprised would be an understatement."
As far back as the American Revolution, the military has relied on foreign-born troops to fill its ranks. Green-card holders always have been subject to the military draft.
As our lead in confirms, the Pentagon has offered foreign-born residents a fast track to citizenship in times of war. But Coombs and Cervantes said they didn’t think that option was important because recruiters had told them they would automatically become citizens once they enlisted.
[Another lesson we need to get out to young immigrants thinking about joining the military -DO NOT believe everything a military recruited assigned a quota tells you or promises you. Don't take our word for it just ask the thousands of WWII, Korean War, and Vietnam War Military Retirees who filed lawsuits against our government and military recruiters who lied to them, and they were born here. VT]
Their deportation cases drew outside attention after Coombs’ fiancée wrote an e-mail that found its way to Ruhman, the veterans advocate. He met with Coombs and, over time, learned that at least 10 veterans were among the 500 detainees at the El Centro facility.
[We need to check with VVA or some other progressive leaning VSO to see how many members it takes to form an incarcerated Veterans Chapter to a Veterans Service Organization to gain these folks clout, recognition, and honor their service even if they sit o death row. VT]
"I support ‘em because I’m a (expletive) Marine, and Marines don’t leave anyone behind," Ruhman said. He contacted Boxeth, and the two have reached out to Veterans advocates, including Veterans Today News Network, and Our Troops News Ladder, plus human-rights lawyers around the country. They’re trying to assess exactly how many other veterans are awaiting deportation.
[Veterans Today and Our Troops News Ladder has the ability to spread this disgrace throughout the active duty military community serving in-country Iraq and Afghanistan plus to Military Families around the world. It is an issue that deserve expose and even debate within the military. Should there be too many negative feelings towards immigrants who serve and become Veterans than maybe it is way past time to cease the practice of hiring the foreign born and implement THE DRAFT? VT]
So far, they haven’t had much luck. They must be invited by a detainee before being allowed onto the grounds of a detention facility.
[Legal assessment at VT is that Veterans who are Ice detainees unless they can form VSO incarcerated chapters with access to Veterans activists outside the prison are reluctant or discouraged from inviting attention to them. VT]
Boxeth said the legal system offers little hope of stopping the deportations because judges have lost most of that authority. ICE does give field-office directors the right to review veterans’ cases. Baker, whose region includes San Diego and Imperial counties, said he sees about 10 cases a year involving Veterans. He said he has never stopped proceedings on a case solely because of someone’s military record.
"I admire their service to our country," said Baker, who spent 23 years in the Air Force. "But I don’t think that service qualifies them for an amnesty."
Boxeth said her strategy is to prolong her cases while lobbying legislators to change the law. She met this month with Rep. Bob Filner, D-San Diego, Chairman of the House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs.
Since, Congressman Filner could not be reached for comment, we at Veterans Today strongly recommend that readers contact your Senator or Congress person, especially if they sit on the House or Senate Veterans Affairs Committee and assist Attorney Boxeth in getting attention, access, and responses from Veterans Representatives in Congress.
I intend contacting the Ohio politicians who sit on the House and Senate Veterans Affairs Committees to express our outrage at this travesty. If you disagree, and want our fellow brothers and sisters in arms deported by all means you contact your representative in Congress and tell they why!
Boxeth said Congressman Filner has agreed to sponsor a "private bill" granting relief specifically to Cervantes, though congressional analysts said few of such measures pass. Boxeth said Filner also is considering broader legislation that would give foreign-born service members and veterans – including those already deported – the same rights as noncitizen U.S. nationals, such as people born in certain U.S. territories and possessions.
The change would shield them from being deported or allow them to return to the United States if they have left.
"These are still people who fought in our wars," Boxeth said. "I don’t think enough of the American public knows what’s going on."
Steve Liewer: (619) 542-4572; steve.liewer@uniontrib.com
Read Part I: Warning to Immigrants seeking military service, Get U.S. Citizenship Naturalization before joining the U.S. Armed Forces
We here at Veteran Today and Our Troops News Ladder strongly recommend that your contact your Senators and Congress persons and let them know how you feel pro or con about these legislative efforts to prevent the deportation of American Veterans without forgiving their crimes. If they do the crime then they should do the time here in the nation they defended!
The story of American Veterans facing deportation was brought to our attention by Veterans for Peace (VFP) and their pro bono legal counsel in Southern California with this media coverage from Sign on San Diego. Robert L. Hanafin
Major, U.S. Air Force-Retired
Veterans Advocacy Editor
Veterans Today News Network
Our Troops News Ladder
Related Posts:
Short URL: http://www.veteranstoday.com/?p=8060
Posted by Robert L. Hanafin on Jul 22 2009, With 0 Reads, Filed under Support the Troops. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
COMMENTS
To post, we ask that you login using Facebook, Yahoo, AOL, or Hotmail in the box below.Don't have a social network account? Register and Login direct with VT and post.
Before you post, read our Comment Policy - Feedback
Comments pro and con about Immigrants serving in our Armed Forces
Commentators who made NEGATIVE (CON) comments FIRST:
FleetNavalAviator:
We do not have criminal attorneys on retainer. However, the consensus is for you to direct your criminal attorney to go back to the sentencing court and file a motion to amend your sentence. The modification that you want is from 1-year to 360-days. The reason is that the courts previous sentence jeopardized your U.S. residency status by its sentencing you to 1-year and thus coming under the Federal statute allowing deportation.Contact University of San Diego law school, they have a project to represent indigent petitioners to the courts. After you get the sentence amendment, petition the USCIS for reconsideration of their deportation order.
FleetNavalAviator:
We are a nation of laws, not of opinions. This has nothing to do with serving the wishes of the Mr. Rogers, "I am special and therefore entitled generations". We follow the law in this country as it is written; it is one of the things that separates us from the banana republic’s and the "chaos ruled by strong armed thugs with opinions and beliefs and no written law". By the way all the comments about them serving in a time of War, is also not correct. "War" in the Federal statutes is a "declared war". Our last one of those was World War 2. All of the provisos applicable in "war" situation because we have not been in a declared war since before these guys were born. If you are going to cite the law, make sure that your argument is applicable to the situation being discussed. Many want to government to do it all for them, but first of all always recall the words and sentiments of Thomas Jefferson, "A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
FleetNavalAviator
I have less than zero interest in assisting a felon who is being deported, or a felon who is out on his backside in Mexico, the Philippines or where ever. Serving in the military does not earn a special right to have laws suspended as a result of that service. As for commanding officers telling these people that they were "U.S. government property and therefore citizens" is laughable and an urban legend. By that logic, the old F-4 Phantoms that I flew are all "citizens" because they are owned by the government and cannot be destroyed in the bone yards. And if you are referring to that crap said in military boot camp or basic training about a serving enlisted man or woman, by some old chief or 1st sergeant, being U.S. property, and therefore, extending the effect of those statements to creating a "citizenship status" is pure hopeful fantasy. Such statements that are made imply slavery, not citizenship. Ali999:
Plenty of soldiers serve in the military or fight for reasons other than love of country. Ever heard of mercenaries? Some people serve for money or economic benefits. Some even serve because they love adventure.
Ali999:
He was in the country legally for 40 years before he was arrested and even served in the U.S. armed forces, yet he COULDN’T BE BOTHERED TO GET U.S. CITIZENSHIP?!! Sorry, but somehow I can’t believe under these circumstances that this fellow’s owed anything. If he wanted to stay here that badly, he should have gotten citizenship.
shantay:
This is what all enlistees agree to when join the military:
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
I don’t see anything about lawbreaking being ok for vets.
tnray : [www3.signonsandiego.com]
They are criminals!! Cold and to the point! Not forced to serve. Honest immigrants and upstanding people let in and yes everyone makes mistakes BUT when it’s multiple times come on!! Illegal immigrants first in most cases, this is from a retired soldier who had immigrants who have become citizens with my help! Great guys and on "the right side of the law"! Deport them NOW!!
FleetNavalAviator:
Military service, Mr. Cervantes, has nothing to do with it. If you are a legal or illegal immigrant, and you serve time in prison, your visa status is revoked. If an immigrant achieves citizenship, that status can be revoked also. Bye, adios, so long . . . .
FleetNavalAviator:
Thank you for that action. Truly heroic and unselfish, if you were deported and not a felon, I would like to look at your case. I am in the immigration business. I have 3 pretty good visa and immigration attorneys on staff.
FleetNavalAviator:
"What was the deportation about? who are the other guys as in "bring us all back?"
natzexpert: You are incorrect. Citizenship acquired by a service member during "Periods of Military Hostility" is revocable. Yes it is rare and difficult but it can be done. "Citizenship granted pursuant to this section may be revoked in accordance with section 1451 of this title if the person is separated from the Armed Forces under other than honorable conditions before the person has served honorably for a period or periods aggregating five years. Such ground for revocation shall be in addition to any other provided by law, including the grounds described in section 1451 of this title." 8 United States Code 1440(c).
FleetNavalAviator : [www3.signonsandiego.com]
This bird is not a citizen. My statement was about a "non serving military" immigrant having achieved citizenship, not a serving military achieving citizenship. This bird did not achieve citizenship while serving and cannot claim privileges of or apply for citizenship ex post facto of his service.
santags:
"We are good enough to die defending the good ol Stars and Stripes, but as soon as we are convicted of a crime we are quickly and quietly deported (it just doesn’t make sense)"
It makes perfect sense to me. Serving in the military doesn’t excuse your criminal behavior. Good riddance to you, sir. Go somewhere else to commit your crime.
santags
Why not become a U.S. citizen?
Lee1017
I would ask you not short-change your Congressman. The way things are set-up on Capitol Hill, your Congressman may prove far more responsive and surprisingly better resourced and positioned to address matters like this. They like "local victories" and the word of mouth advertising it gets them. Senate staffers are talented, but have competing priorities.
Lee1017:
As far as any fighting, the furthest North Marines went was central Kuwait. Only the US Army and allied armies went into Iraq. Some Marines did some Humanitarian Assistance in the Kurdish area of far northern Iraq post-DS, so I stand corrected and yes a few were in far Northern Iraq, but that was the following winter and they were handing out aid. I’m 45 and was in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. The first time I was in Iraq was 2003. Committing repeated felonies isn’t distinguished by race, creed, or something as superficial as skin color. And no, I don’t go around committing felonies, or likewise expect people to feel sorry for me and give me special dispensation because I was a veteran.We make choices, there are consequences. The laws were in place well BEFORE Mr. Cervantes or Coombs committed their crimes. They created this unpleasantly through their criminal actions. IT IS UNFORTUNATE, but it is also nobody else’s fault but their own.
redStateSam:
He is here since 61, an "adult" since 72 and did not bother to become an American Citizen? If he has nothing in Me-he-ko, then why not become a citizen? That is the point. All the rest is lip service. That also goes for the people around town you hear rattling off in Spanish. Think they are interested in this country, its culture or history? Are they interested only in the greenbacks and the relative safety of our streets?
[NOTE: I thought this was the best NEGATIVE argument (Major Hanafin) or par for this viewpoint - RACISTS and ETHNOCENTRIC. But RedneckStateSam will have to look that work up!! It would have been interesting to get a handle on the age spread of people commenting on this thread to compare to folks making POSITIVE statements. However, this tends to be where the tide turns in favor of the Incarerated Veterans - is it any wonder?]
Lee1017
The guy never served in "Nam." Didn’t you read the article? ALL of the Vietnam veterans I know–guys who actually went to Vietnam–went on to be pillars in their community, raised kids and are insulted by the notion they were druggies.You are dead right he was stupid though. To be a guest in a country, get caught and convicted of committing felonies, serve 3 years in prison, only to act surprised you are getting deported seems pretty stupid to me. If you don’t like the consequences, don’t do the crime.
[That of course was the token Stolen Valor input from someone at Gathering of Eagles]
Lee1017
As hard as it is to consider, you need to consider the fact that Coombs is likely lying about his military service.He’s 45. If he is a "Persian Gulf war" vet like he claims, he was never in Iraq. No Marine went into Iraq in 1991; the farthest North we got was mid-Kuwait. Likewise, there were almost no PTSD cases among Marines for the Iraqis pretty much surrendered or ran away in 1991. Almost all the USMC PTSD is OIF-related since most of the maiming and dying started in 2003. Most Marines are proud of their service and happily display their honorable discharge someplace in the house. Same with their personal awards, if you never saw those, there’s a chance they don’t exist. There’s also no mention of a VA claim or VA treatment. Again, points to Coombs representation of his service may be at odds with the truth. It’s sad his former spouse passed away. It’s sad he became addicted to drugs. It’s sad he was in the business of drugs. It’s sad he’s awaiting deportation and certainly must be very painful for your family. But stud, he made most of those decisions. The man is just being held accountable for his actions and he didn’t have just one drug conviction–he was given several chances and kept blowing em. To clamor it is unpatriotic to deport him is specious–he soiled what it meant to be a patriot years ago when he started selling drugs.
lee1017
I spent 22 years in the USMC. Yes, please protect our veterans. Send foreign drug peddlers to their home of origin so our children are safe from their drug peddling. We have enough domestic born druggies to deal with.
mistercitizen : [www3.signonsandiego.com]
I didn’t want to protect our veterans until you told me to 200 times, thanks.
[This was obviously a TROLL even the Reich wing Vets want to protect most Veterans who think as they do].
mexicant
"Living in the United States is a privilege that foreigners forfeit with criminal behavior – even if they’re veterans"
[Hell, even most of us born here don't want to serve in the Armed Forces]
Winner!
Look at it another way (taking all emotion out of the equation) as a fiscal conservative:
32k detainees in prison and the average cost to house and feed them is 45k a year…thats each. Quick, someone with a calculator, do the math and then decide whether they should be allowed to stay.
revgreg
I think it’s terrible to deport them. That said, they all had the opportunity to become U.S. citizens while they were in the military and didn’t. Why? It would have saved deportation as long as they didn’t lie on the paperwork.
practical
US citizenship for immigrants is NOT automatic whether you served or not. You MUST apply for it and must meet the LEGAL requirements. If they did not apply for it, then whose fault is it?
Danny5
The guy was selling meth, which cares what he did before that.
Dudemo
No special treatment for vets. If they’re immigrants, have served honorably in the military, and committed a crime they need to be deported, post haste. They knew the consequences and should have been outstanding citizens and not betray their honorable service. Sure, there’s a double standard, and while it’s shameful that citizens commit crimes, immigrants need to be on their best behavior to ‘not ruin a good thing’ while being here.
danny5
What did they get away with in the service?
Dudemo
Good question, and I’m sure they’re not angels. These people who are currently awaiting deportation should all be sent back to wherever they came ASAP. And, let’s hope more are deported, or even better self-deport.
Another_Viewpoint
Their Military service merits them no special considerations as a convicted felon … in fact I find it highly objectionable that this is even brought up in the first place. These individuals had a tremendous opportunity to live in the US and take steps to be Citizens and live a great life within the law, but they didn’t. On top of it, they have committed felonies.This is ridiculous … let’s stop this seemingly endless litany of excuses for law breakers.
DADSGETNDOWN
If he "emigrated legally", does that make him a legal citizen?
mothersANDdrunkdrivers
No, unless he separately earned citizenship. Citizens of the US aren’t deported. Legal residents can be. I don’t believe there is a designation of "legal citizen". mAdd
DADSGETNDOWN
They can apply for "Legal Citizenship" right?
And that is different than something that enables them to work or live here?.
mothersANDdrunkdrivers
They can apply for citizenship. If they only have legal residency, they can
live and work here, but they could be subject to deportation for certain
offenses. The individuals mentioned would seem to be legal permanent residents, but
not citizens. That doesn’t mix well with drugs or other serious crimes. mAdd
Annjohns
Oh "Filner could not be reached for comment" and "has agreed to sponsor a "private bill" granting relief specifically to Cervantes…". Of course this is the way Democrat politicians operate. Knowing that the majority of voters, including Democrats, are opposed to amnesty, they undermine immigration laws in whatever stealth ways they can conjure.
Lee1017
William Jefferson Clinton was President in 1996 when this illegal immigrant legislation was passed. Oops, I hate it when facts get in the way of prejudice.
Lee1017
Oh great defender of Coombs… You and he think he should stay in the US. I and others don’t. Coombs–and Cervantes–is personally responsible for his own actions or lack thereof. Coombs never bothered to become a citizen. If his paperwork was "lost," why didn’t he refile. If you are such a good friend and know him so well, where were you all these years when Coombs was taking and selling drugs instead of filing paperwork to become a citizen? The fact he NEVER had a true Social Security Number is somebody other than Coomb’s fault? I guess it must be your fault and you should of filed the paperwork for him. I believe all it takes is a power of attorney. Bottom Line: These guys knew they had to take certain steps to secure their ownership of this country by becoming citizens. THEY DID NOT. They don’t like the rules. Perhaps they should of thought of that year ago when they could of: (a) secured US Citizenship, or (b) not sold drugs. They did neither and there are consequences for ones actions. Time for them to home of origin and I wish them the best.
DADSGETNDOWN
If you defend this great nation then by all means you should live in it. WE would like that to be true, BUT it is not the only factor to take into consideration.
WhereTheFoxHat
Bush (either one) was not the President in 1996.
DADSGETNDOWN
Yep I use to smoke marijuana, I said I would smoke it until the day I die, even if a doctor told me one more hit and you die. I smoked for a long time, until I grew up and matured at the ripe age of 23. Started smoking one after the other bong hits from the time I woke up until I went to sleep, with little breaks in between at the ripe age of about 11? He did not learn after being arrested THREE times, he was "discharged", "honorably", which ion these days could still be almost anything. (So we don’t know the circumstances, I guess). A CRIME IS A CRIME. No matter how little, DRUGS are BAD. – Period. For the record, I AM HONEST 100 percent of the time. I have 7 children, no white lies………. no fabrications.
Danny5
We do not want people like this in this country.
[NOW THAT WILL MAKE A GREAT MILITARY RECRUITMENT POSTER!]
DADSGETNDOWN
I know what you are saying.I feel NONE should be enlisted or in our military until they are a legal citizen, not enlist and or serve to become legal. As far as the papers go, THAT’S Lame, but things like that happen to us here ALL the time, and we end up suffering for those needless mistakes.
[That is ALMOST the most convincing arguments I've ever heard for THE DRAFT! Major Hanafin Watch how fast DadsGetDown don't get Down anymore when his precious little Jill or third son Jack gets Drafted!]
DADSGETNDOWN
I’m not one who is part of (Everyone here seems to think I’m saying "He doesn’t deserve to be in jail"). I would want someone to help me/defend me. IT is unjust. The papers did fall through, or got lost and now there are NO faqs that they even existed? I don’t know. This is the type of thing that happens to people ALL the time. In every aspect of our life, from paying bills, to court cases, and it is wrong/unjust. As far as that goes.
Corpsmanup24
If the new law was passed in 1996 it had to have been enacted by Clinton. Get your administrations right or your dates right. Recruiters are targeting illegal aliens, recruiters are targeting high school kids, recruiters are targeting whom-so-ever. Get over it. Recruiters have a job to get bodies that are intelligent enough to do a job in protecting this country. Aliens have the right to serve and if they follow the process they can become citizens.
Mexifornian
Just because you got a job working for the US Military doesn’t mean you get any special privileges. Out of those 200 NON-CITIZENS who were lucky enough to get a chance to join the US military and apply for citizenship BUT DIDN’T before they were CONVICTED as FELONS, I’d say they really screw up in numerous ways. I say if they received honorable discharges, didn’t commit a violent crime, and have only one strike, give them a second chance (that’s probably less than half of them). Otherwise, Via Con Dios!
[This one will really go over big with Hispanic troops serving in Iraq and Afghanistan even if they've got their citizenship. Major Hanafin].
Mexifornian They are NOT US Citizens (they are free to go home to their Country of Origin), otherwise, they WOULD be receiving "special privileges". They WERE NOT "guaranteed" citizenship NOR told they were US citizens (you are very intellectually dishonest, or highly mis-informed). They were told that if they served faithfully and didn’t break any laws that they would have the opportunity to apply for US citizenship. They did not… they kept their permanent resident alien cards and never bothered to study for the Citizenship test (their first major failure). Then they committed at least one felony (probably numerous ones in order to have to plead to a felony during plea bargaining). That was their second major failure. Don’t try and miss-inform the readers here buddy… we got smarts.
[This from someone calling himself/herself Mexifornia as if they really believed they had smarts. Major Hanafin]
Waving a "Veteran" banner in front of other veterans will get you some respect and maybe a beer on a good day, but it doesn’t get you bailed out of jail or US citizenship without a test and proper moral character.
[That sound's pretty much like what the Dick Cheney looking personnel puke told me when Iproudly showed him my DD-214 saying I was Honorably Discharged from the Army after Vietnam. He look me right in the eye with the Cheney shit eating grin and said, "That piece of paper and a dime will get you a cup of coffee, but not a job unloading charcoal for the Greant Atlantic and Pacific Tea Company (A&P). I thank the Lord above that A&P went under during the Arab Oil Embargo of the 1970s, and I danced on their grave. Major Hanafin]
sdnatives
Let’s think about this. I believe the rule is if you commit a crime and you are not a US citizen then you will be deported back to your home country. I don’t believe anywhere in the military contract it says their recruits who commit a crime and aren’t citizens can stay in the US. So don’t commit crime idiots!! Bye!
olc
"I have no one in Mexico. Everything in my life is here," said Cervantes
With your kind of life, that’s why I don’t want you here.
123dave
Oh boy! Let me get out my hankie for these poor veteran CRIMINALS. As a retired service member don’t really consider them one of my peers, nor would I want them to remain in our country. Just because you contributed service doesn’t give you a free pass to break the laws. I too would like to see the service records of these whiners!
[Another whimper from the Stolen Valor cheering section, crucify them, crucify them, they ain't Veterans, they gotta be FALES, we've been down that Red brick road before. Major Hanafin]
lee1017
Wish the reporter would research how "honorably" they served instead of taking their story at face value. I bet you would find a significant portion of these "noble servants" were kicked out of the military for criminal activity or substandard performance. The fact they were too stupid to apply for citizenship and committed multiple crimes against you and I just reinforces we are talking about people we really don’t need or want in this country. I am a huge advocate of military service as a pathway to citizenship–don’t soil these programs with these criminals whose actions demonstrate they didn’t value being a citizen prior to being told they are going back to their country of origin.
[Dah, an attorney would NEVER take on a case where the Veteran did not have a strong military record or at least clean one. On the otherhand, it the FBI Rap sheet showed that he did this and that under UCMJ) that would be another factor against not deporting. Major Hanafin]
kavalier2
These guys thought they were citizens? Guess they didn’t try to vote, huh?
olc
Since when is anyone really checking citizenship when you register to vote?
ElGuapo91913
What??? So many years here and didn’t take the time to become a citizen???
"I thought I was an American citizen." Sounds like an excuse for procrastination that finally caught up to him. I know I am a citizen because I have a damn birth certificate. My mother knows she is citizen because she has a naturalization certificate………what is so complicated?
ElGuapo91913
Don’t get me wrong, I am all about speeding up the process to become citizens for those who serve. On my last deployment, my company had 27 become Americans. I just think he procrastinated and now is pulling his veteran card out. But then again, WTF do I know.
77Observer
Seperate the wheat from the shaft and then dump the shaft.
mothersANDdrunkdrivers Maybe we should dump the chaff into a shaft. mAdd
PBHayes
Between John McCain and Charles Schumer the tens of millions of illegal’s and their extended families will soon be living legally in the USA on a path to citizenship. Fax or email these two men and explain that the legal citizens of our country will never stand for amnesty. These men who committed felonies should not be considered for special treatment as veterans and should be deported. I was a draftee in the infantry and I saw the immense damage drug use caused to our military. Involvement in drugs cannot be tolerated in our society at any level.
fcprop
Petitions for a new law against anchor babies:
Bsage
"Coombs said he started smoking marijuana frequently after his wife, Pamela, died in 2001 from diabetes-related complications. "It started out as something that helped me go to sleep," said Coombs, former manager of a Frazee Paint store. "To support my habit, I started getting a little extra (to sell)." He has been arrested three times and imprisoned once for marijuana violations. Cervantes, a journeyman carpenter, started using methamphetamine in the early 1980s while working two jobs to support his wife and two children. " a perfect example of starting with mj and proceeding to crystal. Who says mj is harmless. This guy is a four time loser and not just a user; he sold METH to others for profit. He had three earlier chances and didn’t learn. Send him home.
p.s. and don’t forget before you turn this guy into a hero that those were the days when we still had the draft; he didn’t necessarily "volunteer".
SunnyDeigo
Deport them.
Deport the Pedi-cab drivers.
Deport all H-1B Visa holders since we have 10% unemployment, we should not be claiming we "can’t find qualified people…."
Deport all illegal aliens too.
deportthem
We’re supposed to feel sorry for a Meth Dealer. He knows the rules and he broke them. His stay is contingent on not being a Meth Dealer, and he did it anyways. The system isn’t broken, he is.
maverick2
The real story here is that these scum bags had a chance to become citizens but didn’t think enough of the United States to apply when they were eligible and before they became criminals. I don’t know where you are getting your info. DEA just sent an additional 80 Special Agents to Afghanistan to assist in the destruction of the poppy fields. In fact, one agent refused to go because of the danger and I hope they fire him. Thats why they are getting the big bucks. And you want to legalize Heroin?
istj04
If you sit down in ANY criminal courtroom in CA, you will hear the admonishment that if you are NOT a U.S. citizen, you are subject to deportation for conviction of even MISDEMEANOR offenses! Just because someone defended the flag, does not mean that they are so "patriotic" as to FOLLOW THE LAWS! Apparently, this genius DID NOT! If he is not a citizen, then he took his chances by: a.) being here ILLEGALLY, and b.) BREAKING THE LAW! Maybe after deporting him, he will understand that this country has laws to follow, and that if you do not, you should not be living here!
bobbym51
Lots of people fall on hard times and don’t resort to selling drugs. A person who has multiple arrests for drug infractions and spends time in prison for a felony conviction SHOULD face deportation…veteran or NOT! As for Cervantes, he lived in this country for almost 40 years after serving and never took the steps for citizenship. Why? He says he "thought" he was a citizen but never thought to check it out. Sorry, but the ball was in his court and he did nothing! I feel sorry for these guys in the article but it is ALL on THEM! This isn’t about the "war on drugs", it is about people who don’t use the stuff in their skulls.
Pieancho
When these people return to their native country, they should begin making it a better place to live. Many have skills that those countries can use.
I WILL POST THE POSTIVE COMMENTS IN THE MORNING!!!
Bobby Hanafin
Veterans Advocacy Editor
(first, I want to apologize for the length of my comment and my typos…I’m just going to type away…and speak from my heart).
It’s terrible to read some of these comments. A lot of these comments are just proof to the ignorance out there. My father was born in Mexico, but came to Chicago when he was 12 yrs old. He came here legally, after my grandfather petitioned for him and his sisters to come to Chicago. My father also served in the Marine Corps during Vietnam and was deported.
He was deported because he requested voluntary deportation. He chose to be deported out of desperation because it can take the immigration months or years to hear ones case. My father requested deportation because my brother was a victim of crime and was robbed at gun point and shot by a U.S. citizen who was on parole for murder.
So, within two days after being deported my father came back to Chicago to be with my brother. We didn’t know if my brother would make it. He needed a blood transfusion because he had lost so much blood, but fortunately he made it out of the ICU. Even though he made it out the ICU my brother was left paralyzed from the waste down.
My father had to stay to take care of my brother, I mean who else would take care of him? No one would care for him as good as my father would. My brother at the time had two kids one was 4 the other one was only 10 mths old. Wouldn’t fathers out there do the same? Wouldn’t you do anything to be with your children and help them?
We advised my father not to request deportation, but we couldn’t stop him. So, he stayed in Chicago for 6 years helping my brother and family. During this time my father this time was living a peaceful life with us and one day it all changed.
My mother and father went to a hotel for some private time. They always went away on weekends to feel young again and what do you know the police were following them. They were followed because the tags to the car were coming back to my brothers friend who was wanted for a warrant for not appearing in court.
My father had no idea my brothers friend had a warrant and only used his car because there was no other car around. So, when my parents were already in there room the cops knocked on the door and asked for my brothers friend. My dad told them and proved to them he wasn’t the guy they were looking for, but they ran his name and it came out on the computer that he was deported. He then was arrested and served time for illegal reentry. After, serving the two years he was deported.
It’s been 8 years since my father was deported and we want him to come home, but the right way. We only want him to be able to visit us for 6 months out of the year and help my brother. My brothers wife left him, his children are in school all day and one is goin to college. I’m in school myself my brother needs his parents.
I know my father committed a crime, but he should have never been deported. I think it’s a waste of time and money. He was incarcerated, separated from his family and then deported? Why? that’s like being sentenced three times?
My father never murdered, robbed or raped a woman, he was convicted of the selling and distribution of Drugs. I’m all for criminals serving time for their crimes, but deport the murderers, robbers, and rapist. Not my people like my father, all his children all law abiding citizens, his sister’s, brother and father are all U.S. Citizens. He didn’t become a U.S. Citizen because he didn’t know any better and he messed up, but not bad enough to separate a family.
Something has to change, give him and people like my father a chance to reenter PLEASE! I miss my dad, I need my father. I’m 32 years old and it hurts me to not be able to see him when I want to. My daddy is 60 years old now. He’s paid for his crimes. I will and my entire family will vouch for him. My dad is a great father and has always taught us well. He tells us to respect the laws and to do things right and we are trying to find and go about the right way to bring him back.
So, please to the people out there. Think before you speak. My father has contributed more positive to this country than negative. Just to give you an idea, I was able to help fund 65,000 dollars to save a school in the inner city of Chicago. I was awarded a Volunteerism award and have given back to my community and people. Why? Because I’m the daughter of in immigrant.
TO DisapponitedDaughter… I was a tad bit confused on your story. mainly the part of when your father got caught selling drugs, father volunteered to get deported/your brothers’ incident…. what i am about to say is bitter sweet. Your father served in the military. if he was good enough to serve, he’s good enough to be here. your father came over here legally which means he is a resident. there are rules as a resident (can’t stay out of the country for more than 4yrs? not sure on that. how long was he gone?) did he volunteer to get deported to help your brother in Mexico or is your brother in the USA? sorry i got a little lost on why he volunteered to get deported. your father sold Meth? that is a crime. to me selling any type of drugs to anyone of age or underage is voluntarily contributing to assist them in burning out braincells; an assisted suicide. would your father give you or your brothers and sisters meth? it’s okay to sell to someone else’s family? he should serve his time for that then be released on american turf. he is an american resident. it isn’t fair to place someone in a country that is now foreign to him. he left there as a child. some of you who have posted comments need to have a little bit of human kindness. has anyone seen the test that foreigners have to pass in order to become a citizen? if citizens had to take the test, rest assured we would have a sparse population. if native americans told us all to leave, where would we go? who would allow us in their country?
Comments pro and con about Immigrants serving in our Armed Forces
Commentators who made positive comments:
[www.defenselink.mil]
Army Gen. David Petraeus, commanding general, Multi-National Force-Iraq, addresses hundreds of troops during the Multi-National Force-Iraq Reenlistment, Naturalization and Independence Day Ceremony July 4, 2007, at Camp Victory, Iraq. During the ceremony, 161 were naturalized as American citizens as they re-enlisted. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Jess Kent
Download screen-resolution [www.defenselink.mil]
General Petraeus said, "This morning we pay tribute to the American ideals we all hold so dear… by celebrating the granting of American citizenship to a group of troopers who have already pledged their loyalty to our nation by putting their lives on the line for it. Petraeus then dedicated the Independence Day ceremony in honor of two soldiers who died fighting for America before they could be sworn in as citizens. Petraeus said the deaths are reminders that freedom comes at a very high cost, which must never be forgotten. Like these two soldiers, who fought and died with the American flag on their shoulders, he said the troops being naturalized as U.S. citizens were most deserving.
[www.defenselink.mil]
[www.defenselink.mil]
Arizona Senator John McCain addresses troops at the Multi-National Force-Iraq Reenlistment, Naturalization and Independence Day Ceremony July 4 at Camp Victory, Iraq. During the ceremony, 161 were naturalized as American citizens. U.S. Marine Corps photo by Sgt. Jess Kent
Download screen-resolution [www.defenselink.mil]
The senator said that when a nation goes to war, a million tragedies ensue. War is a terrible thing, but McCain said it is not the worst thing.
“You know that – you who have endured the dangers and deprivations of war so that the worst thing would not befall us, so that America might be secure in our freedom,” he said. “As you know, the war in which you have fought has divided the American people. But it has divided no American in their admiration for you. We all honor you.”
Fernando Cervantes
As a 7-year-old, I emigrated legally from Mexico to Texas with my mother in 1961. At 18, in the waning days of the Vietnam War, I enlisted in the Army. I donned the khaki uniform, raised my right hand and swore to defend the Constitution.
deportedveteran:
When I was asked to cover a fellow soldier (I didn’t ask if he was an immigrant or American citizen) he was an American defending the rights and freedoms of all Americans just like I was. And now that I am deported I am asking my fellow Honorably Discharged veterans of The United States armed forces to help this AMERICAN come home (yes I called myself an American because I was willing to die for my country) Hate and racism have taken the PERMANANT out of Legal Permanent Resident.
ImAsupporter Exactly!!!
There is so much hate right now. I don’t understand why. This is a country that is supposed to be giving of others and helping others out. We give an immigrant soldier his citizenship after he dies for this country but we can’t give it to the ones who lived through the war/fighting? What good is getting your citizenship if you are dead? Why not honor our vets/soldiers by thanking them for fighting for our freedom and putting themselves in harm’s way so we don’t have to and grant them citizenship?
We will bring you home!! That’s right, I said home, because as far as I’m concerned this is your home and you belong here in the US. Have you been in contact with Heather Boxeth or J. Allen Ruhman? If not, let me know.
deportedveteran
If I would have been killed while on active duty my coffin would have been draped with an American flag, and I would have been buried as an American citizen who died serving his country. But now since I have been convicted of a felony the same country they I was willing to die for says that I can no longer live there (where is the gratitude) All we are asking is for ONE opportunity to become productive members of the country that we served and defended honorably. Thank you for your very positive outlook, if more people thought like you this world would be a much better place, we cannot allow these people that are filled with hate and racism to dictate our actions and or our responses. Thank you,
ImAsupporter
When people are shooting at soldiers and they are shooting back and lots of lives are taken then I consider that a war. when was the last time you were fighting someone with a gun and trying to save your butt? As far as I’m concerned these men fought for me and my family and I will fight for them and their family. It’s such an easy thing to say and do "send them back to where they came from" because nobody here wants to help make it right. Yes they messed up; they should serve their time and then get help for it. Lets say your kid was born in another country and got into trouble (heaven forbid) and now he’s facing deportation. You going to allow that to happen? Your flesh and blood? Your child? Probably not! Who would sit back and watch their loved one be shipped off to a place they haven’t been to in 30+ years because they made a mistake and didn’t get help for it? If this is a country where we turn our backs on people and turn the other cheek when someone needs our help then this isn’t a country I want to live in. What are we telling our children? Love someone until they make a mistake or get in trouble then turn your back on them and leave them? Is this how cold we have become? It’s funny because wasn’t the KKK telling the African Americans to "go back where you came from?" Is this really an argument about immigration and Veterans or is this an issue about Immigration and racism? Where does your hatred for these men really come from?
[Nevermind what are we telling our children,most born here refuse to do what WE do, the real question Congress and DOD needs to answer is what are we telling the 161 immigrants who not only got their U.S. Citizenship in a political photo op in Baghdad, but what are we telling other young immigrants that the military is trying to attract in order to avoid asking for THE DRAFT? Major Hanafin. Note there are those among the ney sayers who actually say that only American born sons and daughters should be allowed to volunteer and serve in the U.S. Armed Forces. Problem is there are not enough volunteers to do the many things non-Veteran politicians want to do. The mainstream VSOs once the nationalist backbone of THE DRAFT and serving our nation in its defense (or offense) now remains SILENT on shared national sacrifice by Americans given that right only by birth. Major Hanafin, VT. Below is the message WE are sending!]
ImAsupporter
You swear that these Veterans weren’t lied to. You swear they have no rights. Its a good thing you aren’t representing them. They fought for you so you could sit here and talk smack on them. They fought for you and this country and now we say they can’t be here? It is a shame they are being treated this way. Something should be done and should have been done a long time ago. Regardless of where they came from, they served here and protected THIS country and therefore we should protect them!
vbloza
It is a shame that after serving their country they get this treatment from the same government they defended so bravely.
ImAsupporter
What is laughable is the fact that you actually believe what you are saying. I’ve heard it numerous amounts of times from Veterans and their families about the promise of citizenship. Maybe in your "time" they didn’t do that but now they are. I’m sorry you are offended that your country might be dishonest but that is how it goes. Sometimes things happen and things are said that we don’t like or don’t agree with but that doesn’t make them any less not true.
ImAsupporter
Don’t worry brother-we will bring you home. With Ruhman and Boxeth’s help you will be here soon!! Hold tight and keep up the good work with your research!!! Keep your head high!
ImAsupporter
They didn’t get their citizenship because they were told THEY ARE CITIZENS by their commanding officer. If your boss tells you something are you going to believe him? Probably. Why would these men go against their commanding officer and not believe them.
These men are told "you are property of the United States Government therefore you are a U.S. citizen." Please get this……they were told they were citizens!! I can’t say this enough. These men were told they were citizens and that taking the oath for the military was all they needed. These men were lied to. It might be hard for you people to understand but that is the truth. Don’t believe me? Do some research for yourself. I’ve done extensive research on this particular area. Maybe it is hard for you guys to grasp that the government lied to them but it is true. Coombs tried to get his citizenship papers but it is hard. It is as hard as trying to get an interview with the President. There are many cases out there where the papers have gotten lost because these men get deployed. Check out this site and listen to this guy. He did nothing wrong and he’s being deported. Think that’s fair? [www.liveleak.com]
Ali999
So in other words I can save your life only if I don’t smoke pot? Give me a break Bro. We are willing to die for you and for what we believe in. We have more love for this country than a lot of people born here. We made a mistake and paid for it. Then comes another group and punish us again. Not only us but our loved ones, tell that to my cousin in Afghanistan and my best friend in Iraq. Yea both born in another country."
lee1017
Congressmen love cases like yours. Cut and paste what you wrote here into a web-mail letter to your Congressman. Let his staff work on your behalf. Presence makes a statement, so make sure to ask for a face-to-face meeting with one of his staffers so you can establish a true point of contact and someone to hold accountable and track the issue as it works its way through the system. You don’t need a lawyer, and in fact, no Congressional staffer is going to take kindly having to speak to you through a lawyer when you can work it directly with the Congressman’s local office.
lucanor
American logic for non-citizens: Go overseas to kill foreigners and yourself for Uncle Sam. If you die: automatic citizenship. If you survive, good luck with the INS, they got your number.
CV59
Wonder what would happen if all Immigrants decided not to join the armed forces because of how they will be treated. He, who has never sin, throw the first stone.
CV59
Funny I remember an immigrant like myself saving the life of a pilot that had ejected on the flight deck and his parachute was caught on the net. He was hanging from the bow. I was a bow hook on the man overboard boat team. It was the middle of the nigh and real bad waves hitting us. At any moment all of us could have died. That thought never crossed my mind till after it was all over. I’m also a deported veteran and I didn’t even have a felony. But I still love the US. Yea I got deported but the ones paying for this are my family , friends and most of all my 3 American born children from an American Mother, were are there rights? We protected the constitution and we never did anything against it.
CV59
I gave enough money to 2 lawyers. We need the law changed to protect Veterans.
CV59
You bring me back you bring us all back. We don’t leave our men behind.
CV59
My bad but Lawyers almost always want money and I really don’t have any.
I was charged with a misdemeanor crime by state law. A year sentence all suspended. (Domestic). Because it was a year it was a felony under federal law. I said bring us back. Every person that served this great nation and was later deported. This isnt about me, this is about what’s right or wrong. What some people fail to understand is the love we have for the US. We are asking for a chance. If you look at most of this cases, people did wrong but better themselves. Hard working, American families, and everything all Americans have and do. I want to return not just for me but for my family and specially my kids. They need their dad home to pick them up when they fall. When I was arrested I had the POW and American flag hanging on my bedroom wall alongside the picture of my ship and my medals. You could tell the INS guys did not feel good about what they were doing. You could see it on their faces.
[As a former Immigration Officer, I can confirm that uless we were by nature anti-miitary, and some of us were, we tended to give recognition of a Veterans willingness to serve our nation in consideration of citizenship testing, and so on. If I were one of the officers sent to arrest and potentially deport a fellow Veteran, I'd much rather be a concentration camp guard at GITMO. Major Hanafin].
hbenler
Legitimately acquired citizenship, such as by a member of the armed forces in wartime, is irrevocable. Also, revocation is very rare and difficult, even in cases of crimes against humanity such as concealing being a German concentration camp guard in WW II; certainly never for what Mr. Cervantes did his time for.
[This is not entirely true, hard to do, especially if one is a combat Veteran, and especially IF the government is still interested in hiring more immigrants to fight our wars for us. Gates is looking for what 22,000 additional volunteers. How much you want to bet the Pentagon does not want this story going out to discourage immigrants from enlisting? Major Hanafin. That today is the strongest argument for changing this law and supporting the legislation proposed. The alternative would be more kids born here going into harms way including the get out of the war free cards given to the wealthy so they no longer have to finds the decreasing ways to avoid the draft or combat ala Vietnam Army National Guard. Major Hanafin]
hbenler
Once a person is legally qualified for accelerated U.S. citizenship under the criteria for a particular time of conflict I’m pretty sure it doesn’t just go " poof ! " following an Honorable Discharge. In any case those who have done their time should not additionally be deported precisely because their service in a period of war makes them uniquely different than those who did not! At the very least these were good, courageous men at one time in their lives and deserve a chance just like non-immigrant citizens.
hbenler
An accelerated process for the attainment of U.S. citizenship has been offered to those serving in any branch of the armed forces in all of our nation’s conflicts. This right remains for honorably discharged veterans. A veteran who has subsequently committed a crime and paid his debt to society should not then be subject to deportation.
[NOTE: THIS IS WHAT THE MASSIVE CITIZENSHIP AND REENLISTMENT CEREMONY PHOTO OP IN BAGHDAD WAS ALL ABOUT. Major Hanafin]
CV59
When I was active duty I was working on my citizenship. I was told I could not stay behind because I was needed and soon I was shipped out. INS never sent my paper work to where I was. It just got lost. The Navy told me not to worry that INS would never be able to touch me. Well here I am 10000 miles away. All that time thinking I was an America,
hbenler Luckily I attained US citizenship while on active duty. I can’t believe that those who were willing to put their lives at risk in wartime and therefore legally made eligible for citizenship could then later face deportation after having paid their debt to society they so well served at such a vital period!!!
Deported veteran
If anyone (immigrant or citizen) is willing to put themselves in harm’s way to defend and protect the rights and freedoms of all American Citizens, then those same American Citizens should at least be a little grateful and show these Honorably Discharged Military Veterans some consideration. We are good enough to die defending the good old Stars and Stripes, but as soon as we are convicted of a crime we are quickly and quietly deported (it just doesn’t make sense)
Deported veteran
You are right; serving in the United States armed forces does not and should not excuse our criminal behavior. As Legal Permanent Residents, we were convicted of a crime and paid our debt to society. As Honorably Discharged Veterans of The United States armed forces we deserve at least ONE opportunity to become productive members of the society that we served and defended.
Socalgal64
How did the United Stated get so lost to what its original beginning stood for – has everyone forgotten what it says on the Statue of Liberty? My husband 6yr veteran – US Army, Permanent Resident Visa – able to legally work in the US but cannot apply for a Federal job because he’s not a US Citizen- I hope Obama’s paying attention!!!!
Socalgal64
After 3 applications over the last 15yrs and spent about $1500 – ever tried to navigate the immigration system? Post 911 - its Salam witch hunt- it was easier applying for a Sentry [WEEKEND] Pass than citizenship! Rules change midstream, forms are added but you’re not told what to fill out or if you made an error – you are not notified, just denied and told to reapply- another $675.
[Sounds almost like the VA, but the VA doesn't charge for forms YET -Don't give them any ideas! Major Hanain, VT]
As a taxpaying veteran it’s frustrating. Even more frustrating that being a peace time vet, he does not qualify for naturalization (Clinton/Bush). It’s humiliating!
Socalgal64
We have paperwork to open a case with Sen. Diane Feinstein (she and her staff seem to be supportive) on the other hand our Governor’s office response- ‘thanks for writing’. The California State Veteran’s Affair office says ‘not their jurisdiction’ and its a Human Resources issue-really? I was of the understanding a VA hospital is the Veteran’s affair? Thank you for the link and the information!!!
Shallowxsleep
"Yes, please protect our veterans."
You agree we should protect our veterans and these men are U.S. Veterans!!! I’m glad we finally agree!!!
Shallowxsleep
They are hanging on my wall and I am staring at them right now. If you search hard enough you just might find pics of guys in Iraq in 1991. I know I’ve seen them.I’m well aware of his history and yes he was in Iraq. Many [immigrants] were in Iraq for the liberation of Kuwait. Its funny because I’m sure that these immigrants who did receive their citizenship know more about the U.S. than you do because they have to take riggorous tests to become a citizen.
[Note: Having been a U.S. Citizenship testing officer, I can vouch for the fact that on average Veterans of current troops aspiring to U.S. Citizenship tend to be on par more educated and articulate than illegal immigrants in general, and they are Green Card holders. Most have at least a high school education, speak English as their first or second language and fluently. Lastly, the selling point for those of us who made the military a career all other prejudices being equal was that an immigrant willing to do that which most people born here, even during Vietnam when they had little to no choice EARNED them a citizenship by right of love of country and military service that tops any birthright. This is where being a class society, and more so a warrior class society stands out. We must be PROUD MEMBERS OF THE WARRIOR CLASS respecting all members of the class willing to bare arms, and we punish our own for transgression right here in the country they served. Major Hanafin's opinion]
Coombs is NOT lying about his service time. Have you ever done anything wrong? Been to jail before?
[Yes, one night to a month prior to being enlisted in the Army at 17 under Project 100,000 the Pentagon's dummy corps. Major Hanafin. It was the Army or a Reform School in Baltimore where the guards loved young butts - leterally. Major Hanafin]
It sounds like this is a racial issue not a veterans facing deportation issue.
It’s funny that you say "guest" in this country. These men are legal residence who pays taxes and own property and have had real jobs with real paychecks.
SDwhiteguy
He joined in the waning days of Vietnam. Sorry, but he served. Oh, I changed my name to SDWhiteguy. He should remain. I agree he needs to be punished and he is dumb as hell, but he served, and put his life up for OUR country.
SDwhiteguy
When you serve in the military–especially Nam–you deserve whatever chances you need. He didn’t kill anyone. The majority of veterans I know from that era were big dope heads, so are we going to deport and imprison them all? He served his time; no one should continue being punished after they serve their punishments. He did something stupid, and he needs a swift kick, but when someone serves his country, especially when he is originally from another, we need to covet these people. Moreover, he was here for a majority of his life. Speaks great english, and really has no ties to Mexico. After hearing all of this, when someone wants to deport someone for this, they’re racist. And I am a White guy. Let’s punch the guy in the face, tell him not to do it again, and move on to real illegal immigrants.
Shallowxsleep
Wow… I can’t believe this; how old are you? I, a 17 year old, and my friend, an 18 year old, BOTH knew that there were IN FACT wars in Iraq in 90 AND 91 (Desert Shield and Desert Storm). The facts? My friends dad served in both wars. His dad called his mom before he was born saying that he was being shipped out to Kuwait. How old are you? Guess the high schooler’s out bested you here! I really doubt you were military personnel of any kind if you claim the fact that there were no wars in or around Iraq at that time.
[For the record, the Saddan Hussain's Republican Guards were pushed into Iraq proper by our advanced forces who awaited orders to either cease advance or march on Baghdad. An order which never came THANK GOD! Read the book Into the Storm for how advance Armor Units with Infantry and Marine support were pissed at not going all the way. Major Hanafin]
Did you know it’s a felony to impersonate any type of military personnel? So, you’re a God player too huh? Trying to make up other people’s lives for them? We have TONS of proof of his deployment to Iraq. Pictures with military personnel of him getting his certificates, military uniforms, the actual certificates, oh you name it we have it; Go back to school or something, or at least look up on your facts?
Shallowxsleep
They didn’t lie on their paperwork. In Coombs case, he filed for citizenship and was deployed before the paperwork got to him and then it was lost in the system. When you are told you are a citizen you aren’t going to question it, especially when it is your officer telling you that. It is wrong. They did wrong acts and they need to be punished and they have been. What they need as well is to be counseled. They need to go into programs to help them with their demons.
gs92110 [Assessment: this is a GS-9 and I believe an Immigration Officer]
Those with honorable discharge from any branch of our military should have immediate citizenship! Those that are presently in any branch of our military should have the highest consideration of future citizenship! Protect our veterans!
shallowxsleep
They are facing deportation because they made a mistake. When getting out of the military these men were not counseled on how to reintegrate back into society. So often these men and women suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). If they don’t get the help they need then they will suffer the rest of their lives. In Coombs case, his wife died 4 days before Christmas and while he never received counseling for his tour in Iraq he also never received treatment after his wife died. How do you reach out to someone for help when you don’t think you need help? These men have served their time for doing their crime and each time they were released from prison they did not receive any type of counseling to stay away from drugs and to better their lives. These are proud men who fought for this country; why would they reach out for help when they are down on their luck? Men don’t do that. Men aren’t known for asking for help. Men try to figure it out for themselves and support themselves and their families by any means necessary. Coombs didn’t start doing bad until his wife died and then he fell off the wagon and started getting into trouble. If you’ve ever done drugs before or had a problem with alcohol or even smoking cigs you know that it is hard to kick especially when you are depressed.
cepollick
People that haven’t been through the disease of addiction can only try to understand. Most of the time they are ignorant of the struggle Veterans, especially addicted Veterans go through. They find fault without ever finding out. Now young men are coming back from the latest war and committing suicide in droves. We need to stop the condemnation and start
helping those lucky enough to have made it home. Veterans; All gave some some gave all. RESPECT THE VETERAN.
dakto69
Oh, this is so wrong on so many levels, anyone having served in the Armed Forces of the US should have been automatically been conferred citizenship status and now that they have been convicted of a crime should not be deported. How many on this board have served and put themselves in harm’s way, what did you do to deserve your citizenship besides being born here, hell look at how many vote U.S. born fail to VOTE. Argh
92102
If you defend this great nation then by all means you should live in it
DADSGETNDOWN [Dad had a tendancy to play both sides of the issue]
WE would like that to be true, BUT it is not the only factor to take into consideration.
Shallowxsleep
They didn’t commit violent offenses. Under the new law enacted in 1996, anyone convicted of a drug felony is considered a "aggravated felon" but that doesn’t mean that they committed a violent crime. Coombs never committed a violent crime and when you ask the ICE agents or anyone involved in his arrests they will tell you he is the nicest, kindest man. He is a gentle giant. These guys have been labeled aggravated felons because they did drugs. They smoked pot. How many Americans and non Americans is smoking pot today? For goodness sakes, they have legalized the damn "drug". Coombs was a working stiff, he held a job and paid taxes and even bought a condo. He, by all accounts, was a citizen. When the military says you are property of the US what else are you going to think? Are you going to question them? Are you going to tell them they are wrong? [If you are an immigrant legally or otherwise,] You don’t question the authority of the US Government. Try to imagine if one of your family members was in this situation. Has nobody done drugs out there? [Hell, this is California] Is everyone on this site honest all the time? HELL NO. Coombs citizenship papers were "lost" once he filled them out and sent them to Immigration for his naturalization and then he was deployed and couldn’t do anything.
[THIS IS PART OF THE MESSAGE WE ARE SENDING YOUNG IMMIGRANTS PROMISED CITIZENSHIP BEFORE THEY COULD GET BLOWN UP BY AN IED, REFUSE TO DEPLOY UNLESS YOUR U.S. CITIZENSHIP IS IN YOURS HANDS OR LET KIDS BORN HERE DO THEIR OWN FIGHTING AND DYING FOR THEIR COUNTRY! Major Hanafin, VT]
Recruiters are targeting non-citizens with promises of receiving their citizenship once they enlist. Recruiters are lying to these men.
[There is documented evidence of U.S. military recruiting stations being set up along the Southwestern border and in some cases going into Mexico to recruit undocumented or documented workers for the U.S. Armed Forces to fill a potential recruitment pool of draft aged men. Major Hanafin. The massive citizenship ceremony in Baghdad back in 2007 was the tip of the iceberg for the many U.S. citizenship ceremonies held around the nation and around the world to correspond with either 911 or some other propaganda motive. Major Hanafin. Patriotic holiday were the preferred means of propaganda and best sales pitch to Immigrants. That said, the buld of young immigrants will never find themselves in this situation, but I wouldn't want to place odds on it].
Shallowxsleep
I’m not saying that he shouldn’t have been punished. Yes, he did it three times, yes he was punished and that’s what happens. What I’m saying though is that he SERVED in the military with a GUARENTEED CITIZENSHIP! And he filled out the papers and everything for it but is he a citizen?! NO! They let the papers fall through and now he faces unfair deportation! I never ONCE said "He shouldn’t have been put in jail for this, no – never. He did the crime he does the time but I don’t think it’s fair that someone who served to keep us safe, and even went through filing for citizenship, is being deported now!
Shallowxsleep
It wasn’t his fault though that they fell through. He took ALL the necessary steps into becoming a citizen. Everyone here seems to think I’m saying "He doesn’t deserve to be in jail" No… I’m not. I do think he does because he’s gotten away with it so many times but not to be deported! After filing for citizenship and then because of OUR country letting the papers fall through HE’S going to REALLY suffer?! All his family is out here and I mean BLOOD family. Not us. My mom is his girlfriend. His wife died a while back and he has no one in Jamaica to go to if he gets deported! He’ll be screwed there!! Not only that but he doesn’t deserve that when he FILED and went through all the steps! I bet ALL OF YOU would want someone to defend you if you went through this EXACT situation! You’d know it was unjust!!
KariKnotts
I think it is relevant that he was sworn in to protect the U.S. That is more than the vast majority of citizens have ever done. A person doesn’t have to be a left-wing do-gooder to think that this should hold some kind of weight.
Shallowxsleep
We aren’t saying they should get special privileges but what happens to a U.S. citizen who gets caught in this type of situation? They do their time and get out and go back home right?! THESE PEOPLE WERE GUARENTEED AND /TOLD/ THEY WERE CITIZENS OF THE U.S.!!!! WHO WOULD GO AND QUESTION THAT?!
Shallowxsleep
Many military men and women turn to drugs especially marijuana when they get out of the service. How are they supposed to deal with seeing people killed or even killing people themselves? Military recruiters are telling potential soldiers that they will receive their citizenship automatically once they join the military. How many of you know what the steps are to getting your citizenship? When a representative of the government is telling you that "you are property of the US States, now you are a citizen" you aren’t going to question them. These men and women fought for us to be able to sit here judge them, and write about them. Regardless of what they did after the military in terms of drug use they should receive our help because they were there to help us and ready to die for OUR country. Don’t you think that deserves some attention? Don’t you think they deserve our help since they helped us? Don’t you think we can be there for them in their time of need since they were willing to DIE for us? HELP THESE VETS-DON’T DEPORT THEM!!
Login Incorrect
This is the logical consequence that results when you deal with what is essentially a medical problem as a criminal problem. I’ve always been struck by the irony that if the drugs don’t directly ruin your life, the government is happy to oblige and ruin your life in their stead. God help him. His friends, neighbors and family are powerless, and it’s a safe bet the government won’t.
Shallowxsleep
I believe that regardless of nationality if you go to war for th better of our people and my country are heroes in my eyes. He should stay in our count and that is the American way
Shallowxsleep
Rohan Coombs filed for citizenship WHEN HE WAS IN THE MILITARY! Basically as soon as he got in! He served, and was GUARENTEED citizenship! How can you bad mouth people like this?! Yes he committed a crime but not only did he have drugs UNDER the limit for jail, he’s being deported after SUPPOSEDLY being a citizen for ALL THESE YEARS! Its not his fault the papers fell through. NONE OF YOU BAD MOUTHERS KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT! Do you know their story?! Do you know what they’ve gone through?! I can tell you SO MUCH MORE than you even know about what’s going on! All you see is "Commit a crime" and go "DEPORT" all because you assume they NEVER filed for citizenship! And did you ever think that they were TOLD they’d be citizens when they went into the military?! Well what the hell happened now?! AMERICA FELL THROUGH WITH THAT GUARENTEE NOW DIDNT THEY?!?! YES he committed a crime, NO it was not right, NO he shouldn’t be deported because it’s not his fault for the citizenship papers falling through! Maybe people like you, sedatives and several others on here, should just shut your mouths! We sit there and let MURDERERS go for whatever reason when they’re born U.S. citizens but what happens to foreigners?! F*** THEM! THAT’S WHAT HAPPENS!!! As far as I see, our country seems to be playing this as a big huge game! Toying with the lives of others! Oh, he murdered someone but oh! This foreigner was caught with drugs! Deport him and let the murderer go!!! It’s all crap!!!
soyrizo
Thank you Heather Boxeth for your compassion and persistence! This is a worthy legal fight and you have the support of many Americans, including myself.
cepollick
We let Mexicans live here illegally we let them across the border every day. They come and go as they please they earn money here driving down wages and taking the money out of the country few of them caring about but just using the USA as a means to an end. They don’t learn our language they give nothing back. Yet Legal emigrants born in this "great" Country man who fight for all of us get deported for crimes that are disease related such as addiction. As a Veteran I consider myself a brother to everyone who has every worn the uniform. How can this be allowed to continue?
USN_Corpsman_lkc
Amen to that. You serve you are an American in my eyes. Regardless of where you are from, they swore to defend this county just like I did. Like I said earlier, I can watch my kids grow up because a young man saved my life in Iraq and he was not considered an American citizen he was from Jamaica.
USN_Corpsman_lkc
If he served he’s American to me. My life was saved in Iraq by a young man born in Jamaica and considered a non citizen. If it wasn’t for this so called non citizen soldier, I wouldn’t be home watching my kids grow up right now.
USN_Corpsman_lkc
I understand that but that doesn’t matter to me, he swore in just like I did you’re a vet you know a lot.
USN_Corpsman_lkc
Well said HM?, HM2 [for you civilians out there HM2 is a Navy enlisted rank. Major Hanafin] here. I had a young corpsman from Paso Robles who didn’t have citizenship but DAMN he was a good corpsman!! He got his citizenship, but I always viewed him as an equal and a citizen who swore in just like I did.
USN_Corpsman_lkc
Talk to me when one of those illegal’s saves your life bro!! Till then we have a completely different view on the subject.
jeffsd
I am usually against the illegal aliens, but these people have earned the right to be American. They have done more for this country than most of us. They deserve citizenship and our gratitude.
cepollick
Drug addiction is defined as an obsession of the mind and an allergy of the body. There are millions of Americans in treatment for drug addiction/alcoholism. I am a Vietnam Veteran and an addict. My addiction was caused by using drugs. ALCOHOL IS A DRUG that just happens to be legal. Illegal’s should be removed not Veterans suffering from the disease of addiction.
RushTheJunkieLimbaugh
You and who ever "liked" your post must be high!
[Sorry had to lighten up a bit, Major Hanafin]
erinnoel
Two different people, dude. Coombs smoked weed. Cervantes did meth
MGinBV
I thought if you served in the armed forces during wartime you got citizenship automatically
SDkiteboarder
Nope.
Cydjim
No law should ever be made where the right thing can’t be done….not a defense for drug use but we have prisons and rehab for that, so would I have the 2 meth heads who crawl out the bushes near my house or these 2 who stepped when the country needed them….It isn’t that hard to step up for them………laws might be laws, but the right thing isn’t that hard to do…then again it took the Filipinos’ 50 years to get citizenship or back money for WW II
[For the Record: the battle for WWII Filipinos to get recognition as American Veterans was strongly opposed by Reich wing Veterans and the VSOs they infest. Major Hanafin]
dipr
It seems the real story here is our massively failed war against drugs. Marine sells marijuana, deport him? i don’t think so. Our boys in Afghanistan were recently ordered to leave the heroin farmers alone. "Don’t disturb the opium poppies, they need to make money. We can just catch the dealer’s later." I am not making this up.
[AND he is not. Major Hanafin]
This anti-drug war makes no sense. Time to legalize.
sfmc98
Compassion is the basis for justice. I could perhaps understand (but not agree with) sending him back if he came here as an adult, but he had no choice in the matter.
This guy made something of his life but fell on hard times. A reasonable person cannot say that justice is served by sending him to a foreign country he doesn’t know.
THIS IS WHERE THE POSITIVE COMMENTS JUST BEGIN AS WE SPREAD THIS STORY THROUGHOUT THE VETERANS ACTIVISTS , MILITARY FAMILY, AND IMMIGRANT TROOP COMMUNITIES NOW SERVING IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN!!! Major Hanafin
I placed the NEGATIVE arguments up front so that our readers could compare and contrast them yourself with of course my own thoughts highlighted in parens as best I could.
Our military family are strong believers that if an immigrant is ready, willing, and passionately able to do what we did for a living accepting all the hardships that goe along with military life including disability and death, then come what may in the future it must come as American citizens. Either that or we do not allow non-citizens to serve.
If anyone out there seriously believe we can continue to occupy Iraq, expand our ops tempo in Afghanistan and potentially Pakistan, rattle our rusted swords at China, and North Korea, and continue to bluff the former Soviet Union without the Draft, Lord help us, I hope your views are never tested in my families life time.
Bobby Hanafin
The Mustang Major
Veterans who commit felonies like other Americans lose their freedom while paying their debt to society, but to then face deportation is an added penalty that other citizens do not face, many Americans that have never served this nation in uniform do their prison term and go home and live the American way of life, veterans that have spent time in uniform and or served in war deserve the same consideration.
They have benefits they earned as veterans especially if they are service connected with any disabilities, if they are deported they lose their healthcare that was promised to them when they enlisted the infamous ‘PROMISE” veterans should not be deported they havepaid more of a price to be an American than most native born Americans have.
When I was activated by The Pentagon to go to war for my country I didnt go to Canada(like some americans do)or go to Mexico(where I was born)no, I was willing to give my life so that my American Citizen children could enjoy their rights and freedoms as Americans.
Now that I have been convicted of a felony,the same country that I was willing to give my life for says that I cannot live there(eventhough I have paid my debt to society)I am a LEGAL PERMANENT RESIDENT and an HONORABLY DISCHARGED VETERAN of THE UNITED STATES armed forces.
Somebody needs to look up the definition of PERMANENT in the dictionary.
Hector Lopez,
Frankly, Hector this is not an issue about "doing the crime you do the time," most Veterans would agree with that our other diverse views being equal.
You hit the nail on the head.
After spending most of my adult life (well maybe over half of it cause we live longer) in and out of uniform but SERVING MY COUNTRY, my military family learned early on when military families were not being cheered on because of war(s) our nation’s not committed to that most people born here do not want to do what we do, frown upon what we do, or are UNFIT to do what we do.
Stay tuned, because word of this travesty is only now beginning to spread and get the attention and debate that doing this deserves.
BTW-I personally am hard on crime (the degree or severity can be debatable), but as far as I’m concerned if you are a Veteran who’s done a crime YOU DO THE TIME in the country you defended, served, and took an oath to. No Hector, if you were sitting in front of me being tested for your U.S. citizenship you’d be the first person to know Bobby Hanafin is not soft on crime, but FAIR.
Good Luck to You, keep your nose clean, and your powder dry.
I can not see the deportation to Mexico for this veteran. he served his time and should be released back into society.
If he is a career criminal that would be a different story. There are more dangerous illegal emigrants that walk the streets of our country and ICE should put their energy into locating these people.
Being retired from Corrections in Pennsylvania I know the authorities do not have track this Veteran down and he is considered easy game, so why go out and earn there pay when they can justify there job with deporting him when he is still in custody.
Veterans should stick together and f…..k the book.
John USMC Vietnam 68&69
PS also I’m white!
Don’t to the crime if you can’t do the time..remember that old saying!
By the looks of things, this man is a career criminal, so they are really doing him a favor by deporting him, it would be that or life in prison on our ticket and expense. He will at least be free and not lock up, then he will slip back over the border until they catch him and send him back and it will go back and forth forever or until he dies.
As far a Kerry, the mans a pig, a traitor, who hides his less the honorable discharge (why would a President have to sign just to re-issue his medals, I had that done just by sending in my HONORABLE DD-214, and here they came). Kerry is also a SELF ADMITTED WAR CRIMINAL, if you don’t believe me just watch his testomy before congress in the 70′s, where he admitted to it. So why isn’t he in jail?
Murtha refuse’s to refuse’s to sign a SF-180 for release of his records! WHY? What does he have to hide?
Plus if any of you our Marine’s out there and defend this peace of crap after what he call the corp, well, you sure ani’t no marine!!
Now for the subject matter, why are you stating all REP names? You mean to tell me no democrats agree with the law? Who made the law was it Congress? Didn’t they have democrats then? Did they agree or disagree? When was the law passed?
I agree with he serve his time, but back when I came in the service 1965, they told everyone who was joining that were NOT U.S. Citizens this does not mean that you are now or will be, but, its one big step toward it. And even told them what they have to do to become a citizen.
So this article was half ass written again, just like a lot of other ones posted here..no facts..just wild thoughts of blame it on Bush and the Reps. Crap even Obama’s camp told him the blame it on Bush is running thin…
"This article was half ass written again, just like a lot of other ones posted here..no facts..just wild thoughts of blame it on Bush and the Reps. Crap even Obama’s camp told him the blame it on Bush is running thin…" IP: 174.17.41.3
IP: 174.17.41.3 simply put IP, "We here at Veteran Today and Our Troops News Ladder strongly recommend that you contact your Senators and Congress persons and let them know how you feel pro or con about these legislative efforts to prevent the deportation of American Veterans without forgiving their crimes.
Oh, and thank you very much for making the time to read the article even if you don’t agree with it.
Frankly, and honestly I’m NOT A MARINE. I’ve spent time around MARINES, enough to respect MARINES (I’d better), thus, I’ve not earned the right as you think you have to speak for THE CORPS. I certainly am not arrogant enough to speak for other MARINES even if I were ONE.
However, what I fail to understand is I was taught BY MARINES that once a MARINE always a Marine. So you are telling me MARINE that if a Marine is not white, if a Marine has done a crime (oh, Marines are angels right?), if a Marine happens to not be a citizen (hell, how many would that be a Pendleton?) AND lastly if a MARINE happens to not be a Republican he/she is NO LONGER A MARINE???
OK!!! I’ll drink to that. So, lets call them Sailors, but so much for THE CORPS or ONCE A MARINE ALWAYS A MARINE. I’ll remember your views nect time a MARINE tries convincing me that MARINES are a special breed.
AND, I’ll still think THEY ARE regardless what your Reich-wing, Aryan nation butt says. One thing THE MARINES ain’t = ARYAN NATION!!!
But, you still earned the reight to respectfully be called a MARINE.
PS: I have no professed love for John Kerry either or Jane Fonda, just relaying what the facts said that Senator Kerry did or did not do.
Veterans advocacy : is this how you approach an arguement? By bringing the race card and politics in? Please do not be my advocate!
Veterans advocacy : is this how you approach an arguement? By bringing the race card and politics in? Please do not be my advocate! Jason
Could you explain exactly how the race card is being played here Jason, this story is about immigration, it could be twisted to be about illegal immigration but nope it is about immigration and deportatiion of immigrants.
What also is the political angle here Bro? Last time we looked Democrats and Repulicans are just about as rascists as anyother political party, and both parties have influential elements who under the cloak of being anti-illegal immigration are really well AGAINST ALL IMMIGRATION.
Frankly, though the focus of most ignorants bigots like you is on Mexican illegal immigrants, having worked at the Immigration service truth is that Hispanics may be the majority of illegals in the Southwest but turning to the Northeast and Canadian border you will find that the mix of illegal residents are from the Middle East or White Europeans – the Irish come to mind. I should know I’m Irish. Hell, during the hay day of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) members and supporters (here in the states) had no choice to run the gun running circuit as illegals given the U.S. close relationship with Great Britain who has arrogantly occupied Northern Ireland for how long now.
Nope, I said I’m a Veteran’s advocate Jason, NOT your advocate, you obviously don’t need one. That said, you can of course turn to Rolling Thunder, Gathering of Eagles and such if you are a Veteran, we’re sure they represent your interests moresom that any real Veterans advocate.
Then of course given you may thrive on NATIONALISM, there’s always the early 20th Century American Legion or VFW you can turn to for advocacy, but keep in mind you better not need the services of the VA Medical system, and francticaly FEAR that someone is going to burn Old Glory while your Veterans organization makes a retail sales killing hacking OLD GLORY in all her Glory.
Bobby Hanafin
The Mustang Major
Not Jason’s Advocate
It is a pretty sad day when you have to rely on illegal imigrants to fill the ranks. Bring back the draft for everyone.Seems like the rest of our brave citizens would like the middle class or lower middle class or the poor to fill the ranks.When a celeberty like Hanoi Jane can get away with treason but a guy that made a mistake gets deported, something is wrong. Two wrongs don,t make a right but at least he had the courage to enlist and serve. Can,t say the same about the rest of our natural born citizens.The way i look at it is If you haven,t served, You ain,t shit.I would give a weeks pay to stand up before a graduating class and say the following, Fall out on the yellow footsteps Now, You filthy Maggots!
"It is a pretty sad day when you have to rely on illegal imigrants to fill the ranks. Bring back the draft for everyone. Seems like the rest of our brave citizens would like the middle class or lower middle class or the poor to fill the ranks."
Mike,
Let’s not overstate the case here Bro.
First off, America has NEVER had to entirely rely on immigrants (legal or illegal) to fill our ranks, that just ain’t so – the percentages just don’t add up.
That said, I’ve seen research and facts showing that during peace time periods our government’s focus on recruiting immigrants PERIOD goes down, then when America is at war our government’s focuse on recruiting those just off the boat or what have you significantly goes UP.
Example the American Civil War, both sides Union and Confederacy, and I do not mean the militaries but civilian society turned the social focus on recruiting immigrants in large numbers and even seriously considered Black men could FIGHT when too many rich white boys north and south of the Mason-Dixon line were subject to THE DRAFT.
Hell, there were Irish and German Brigades and Regiments in both armies, quite a few units, I mean whole units could not speak English.
The fact remains that despite slight international differences WE ARE PROUD MEMBERS OF THE WARRIOR CLASS.
However, in the case of the American Warrior Class, you hit the nail on the head, we do not nor should not enjoy the political power, social clout, and high social status of the Samurai Class. Regardless, a warrior class is a warrior class despite slight differences.
Throughout history, hell look at the Roman Legions, the Warrior Class has had to sustain itself on recruitment of conquered peoples. Toward the end of the Roman Empire most Roman Legions on the fringe of an empire about to crumble were NOT ROMAN citizens.
Lastly, I hope you know that there is a call from the farthest reaches of the Reich wing that only American citizens be allowed to serve in our Armed Forces. Frankly, I tend to almost go along with that, because it would not only sustain our PROUD WARRIOR CLASS it would eventually provide us political clout in the central government lacking since what WWII.
The number of Veterans who lead our Great Nation dwindles and decreases as each national election goes by regardless the courageous efforts of a few young Vets to do politics.
See that’s the main vulnerability of our warrior class. We do pretty good a politics within our Warrior Class, but we are not so good at it outside OUR CLASS.
Let’s face it, how many Centurions actually really want to be a Senator or Congressman. Do we really respect what people in Washington do as well SERVICE that benefits the nation?
However, we are a nation that’s thus far managed to survive with civilian control of the military. The key to that will always be the quality and integrity of that civilian leadership. If the day ever come when the Warrior Class seriously questions the decency of civilian leadership our Roman Empire is doomed.
The Mexican has to realize that if Americans are guilty of one thing its allowing illegals to enter America far beyond the immigration reform act of 1965.
Americans are all guilty and it is America’s fault. Yet it is no ones fault at all.
Say hello to Vicente for us and his next multimillion dollar donation dinner party.
"It is a pretty sad day when you have to rely on illegal imigrants to fill the ranks. Bring back the draft for everyone. Seems like the rest of our brave citizens would like the middle class or lower middle class or the poor to fill the ranks."
Mike,
Let’s not overstate the case here Bro.
First off, America has NEVER had to entirely rely on immigrants (legal or illegal) to fill our ranks, that just ain’t so – the percentages just don’t add up.
That said, I’ve seen research and facts showing that during peace time periods our government’s focus on recruiting immigrants PERIOD goes down, then when America is at war our government’s focuse on recruiting those just off the boat or what have you significantly goes UP.
Example the American Civil War, both sides Union and Confederacy, and I do not mean the militaries but civilian society turned the social focus on recruiting immigrants in large numbers and even seriously considered Black men could FIGHT when too many rich white boys north and south of the Mason-Dixon line were subject to THE DRAFT.
Hell, there were Irish and German Brigades and Regiments in both armies, quite a few units, I mean whole units could not speak English.
The fact remains that despite slight international differences WE ARE PROUD MEMBERS OF THE WARRIOR CLASS.
However, in the case of the American Warrior Class, you hit the nail on the head, we do not nor should not enjoy the political power, social clout, and high social status of the Samurai Class. Regardless, a warrior class is a warrior class despite slight differences.
Throughout history, hell look at the Roman Legions, the Warrior Class has had to sustain itself on recruitment of conquered peoples. Toward the end of the Roman Empire most Roman Legions on the fringe of an empire about to crumble were NOT ROMAN citizens.
Lastly, I hope you know that there is a call from the farthest reaches of the Reich wing that only American citizens be allowed to serve in our Armed Forces. Frankly, I tend to almost go along with that, because it would not only sustain our PROUD WARRIOR CLASS it would eventually provide us political clout in the central government lacking since what WWII.
The number of Veterans who lead our Great Nation dwindles and decreases as each national election goes by regardless the courageous efforts of a few young Vets to do politics.
See that’s the main vulnerability of our warrior class. We do pretty good a politics within our Warrior Class, but we are not so good at it outside OUR CLASS.
Let’s face it, how many Centurions actually really want to be a Senator or Congressman. Do we really respect what people in Washington do as well SERVICE that benefits the nation?
However, we are a nation that’s thus far managed to survive with civilian control of the military. The key to that will always be the quality and integrity of that civilian leadership. If the day ever come when the Warrior Class seriously questions the decency of civilian leadership our Roman Empire is doomed.
mabey after a 2 year committment in the active army or marines
during war time, these illegal imigrants granted citizenship.