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	<title>Comments on: The Death Book for Veterans</title>
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	<description>Military Veterans and Foreign Affairs Journal - VA - Veterans Administration</description>
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		<title>By: bbn</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-25807</link>
		<dc:creator>bbn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 01:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-25807</guid>
		<description>b cvnv</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>b cvnv</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-23320</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-23320</guid>
		<description>I think everyone should download &quot;Your Life, Your Choices&quot; and implement it.  This is a well written workbook that will help you think about what you want and don&#039;t want if and when you get into a situation where you cannot speak for yourself.

I would think that any responsible person would want their physician, family, friends and clergy to know what to do if they could no longer convey their wishes to their caregivers.  I have been working in the health care field for over twelve years and have seen more families than I care to remember anguish over these matters.  If their loved one had made these decisions in advance, the choices would have been clear as to what was the right thing to do.  Namely, carry out the debilitated person&#039;s wishes.

It is discouraging when I see so many people simply believing what they see on TV or read on someone&#039;s blog when they should be going to the source and reading the information themselves.  Read the document and make your own decision.  You can find it here: http://www.ethics.va.gov/YLYC/YLYC_First_edition_20001001.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think everyone should download &#8220;Your Life, Your Choices&#8221; and implement it.  This is a well written workbook that will help you think about what you want and don&#8217;t want if and when you get into a situation where you cannot speak for yourself.</p>
<p>I would think that any responsible person would want their physician, family, friends and clergy to know what to do if they could no longer convey their wishes to their caregivers.  I have been working in the health care field for over twelve years and have seen more families than I care to remember anguish over these matters.  If their loved one had made these decisions in advance, the choices would have been clear as to what was the right thing to do.  Namely, carry out the debilitated person&#8217;s wishes.</p>
<p>It is discouraging when I see so many people simply believing what they see on TV or read on someone&#8217;s blog when they should be going to the source and reading the information themselves.  Read the document and make your own decision.  You can find it here: <a href="http://www.ethics.va.gov/YLYC/YLYC_First_edition_20001001.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ethics.va.gov/YLYC/YLYC_First_edition_20001001.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Donna2</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22905</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22905</guid>
		<description>In 1997, the VA had the 52-page end-of-life manual, &quot;Your Life, Your Choices.&quot; This planning manual appeared to assist our vets in preparing a living will. It became clear to the Bush administration that it was being utilized for nefarious reasons and its use was suspended. The Obama administration reinstated the end of life manual. 

There&#039;s your answer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1997, the VA had the 52-page end-of-life manual, &#8220;Your Life, Your Choices.&#8221; This planning manual appeared to assist our vets in preparing a living will. It became clear to the Bush administration that it was being utilized for nefarious reasons and its use was suspended. The Obama administration reinstated the end of life manual. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s your answer!</p>
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		<title>By: KAsdrummergirl</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22789</link>
		<dc:creator>KAsdrummergirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22789</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve read the entire document at http://www.ethics.va.gov/YLYC/YLYC_First_edition_20001001.pdf, since I wasn&#039;t able to access the one listed in an earlier post.   It is a document that I deem would help anybody now, while they are healthy and if/when their health changes, to make it known to family, friends and health care providers what your wishes are regarding your last days on this earth.  I didn&#039;t see anything in it related to assisted suicide.  Duffster, Skinner I agree with you two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read the entire document at <a href="http://www.ethics.va.gov/YLYC/YLYC_First_edition_20001001.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ethics.va.gov/YLYC/YLYC_First_edition_20001001.pdf</a>, since I wasn&#8217;t able to access the one listed in an earlier post.   It is a document that I deem would help anybody now, while they are healthy and if/when their health changes, to make it known to family, friends and health care providers what your wishes are regarding your last days on this earth.  I didn&#8217;t see anything in it related to assisted suicide.  Duffster, Skinner I agree with you two.</p>
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		<title>By: SeaDog</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22592</link>
		<dc:creator>SeaDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22592</guid>
		<description>Hey Duffster, anyone who does not agree with your liberal left wing pinko comments is an asshole&quot;.  What does that make you, the ass?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Duffster, anyone who does not agree with your liberal left wing pinko comments is an asshole&#8221;.  What does that make you, the ass?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22447</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22447</guid>
		<description>This only looks like another avenue for the fear mongers to scare people about Obama.   Pretty sad I would say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This only looks like another avenue for the fear mongers to scare people about Obama.   Pretty sad I would say.</p>
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		<title>By: KB</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22420</link>
		<dc:creator>KB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22420</guid>
		<description>Interestingly, I went to the SOURCE Document (not the &quot;source&quot; story, which this item is a derivative of), and a disclaimer at the top states &quot;Your Life Your Choices: Planning ofr Future Medical Decisions&quot; is a 1997 publicatin and is currently under revision.&quot; See: http://www.ethics.va.gov/YLYC/YLYC_First_edition_20001001.pdf 

May I ask, where was Obama in 1997? Was he president? No? Oh gee, then why is he being blamed for this? 

By the way, isn&#039;t it a LAW that all hospitals have to supply patients with information like this?

And, like a previous writer commented, there is no compulsion in this: just read it, trash it, use it or pass it on. The VA can&#039;t make you do anything...heck, isn&#039;t this the same writer that complains about how ineffective the VA is!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interestingly, I went to the SOURCE Document (not the &#8220;source&#8221; story, which this item is a derivative of), and a disclaimer at the top states &#8220;Your Life Your Choices: Planning ofr Future Medical Decisions&#8221; is a 1997 publicatin and is currently under revision.&#8221; See: <a href="http://www.ethics.va.gov/YLYC/YLYC_First_edition_20001001.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ethics.va.gov/YLYC/YLYC_First_edition_20001001.pdf</a> </p>
<p>May I ask, where was Obama in 1997? Was he president? No? Oh gee, then why is he being blamed for this? </p>
<p>By the way, isn&#8217;t it a LAW that all hospitals have to supply patients with information like this?</p>
<p>And, like a previous writer commented, there is no compulsion in this: just read it, trash it, use it or pass it on. The VA can&#8217;t make you do anything&#8230;heck, isn&#8217;t this the same writer that complains about how ineffective the VA is!</p>
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		<title>By: Meshuga Mikey</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22417</link>
		<dc:creator>Meshuga Mikey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22417</guid>
		<description>http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/576/weethepeople.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/576/weethepeople.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/576/weethepeople.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Lee Mason</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22413</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Lee Mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22413</guid>
		<description>&#160; The author has done his job well, divide the veterans and get them distracted from the real cause, namely reform of the VA system. It never worked for the veteran only against them. By sturring up hate and getting us un-united to take action the arthur has done us all a diservice. KEEP YOuR EYE ON THE BALL, push evrey VA offical and congressman to reform the VA for real. Good luck all and don&#039;t give this article much attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&nbsp; The author has done his job well, divide the veterans and get them distracted from the real cause, namely reform of the VA system. It never worked for the veteran only against them. By sturring up hate and getting us un-united to take action the arthur has done us all a diservice. KEEP YOuR EYE ON THE BALL, push evrey VA offical and congressman to reform the VA for real. Good luck all and don&#8217;t give this article much attention.</p>
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		<title>By: Judy</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22343</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22343</guid>
		<description>Your comments are well put. All doctors and hospitals are giving people booklets on &quot;health care decisions&quot; but don&#039;t provide any guidance on how to make and write these decisions down. Just like all the scare tactics used with the health care reform bill (which I am against) about the few lines authorizing payment for counseling on making these decisions, people need to read the actual article or bill and make up there own mind. My husband and I have Health care decisions (not a living will - you don&#039;t need a will if you are living) that we had a very hard time stating what we wanted. We would have loved some help on wording this.
And thanks for the web site I could not find it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your comments are well put. All doctors and hospitals are giving people booklets on &#8220;health care decisions&#8221; but don&#8217;t provide any guidance on how to make and write these decisions down. Just like all the scare tactics used with the health care reform bill (which I am against) about the few lines authorizing payment for counseling on making these decisions, people need to read the actual article or bill and make up there own mind. My husband and I have Health care decisions (not a living will &#8211; you don&#8217;t need a will if you are living) that we had a very hard time stating what we wanted. We would have loved some help on wording this.<br />
And thanks for the web site I could not find it.</p>
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		<title>By: K.</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22325</link>
		<dc:creator>K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22325</guid>
		<description>Well-done and well-said, Amy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well-done and well-said, Amy!</p>
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		<title>By: Karen St. John</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22324</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen St. John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22324</guid>
		<description>g, I agree with you.  It is full of &quot;fear, fear, fear.&quot;  This is a tactic Bush/Cheney utilized to control media spin, and if you also notice, the author worked under Bush so is well trained in that strategy.  I am disappointed that Veterans Today ran this, as it is not based on truth, but religious conclusions.  Veterans need the truth and can match up their beliefs however they choose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>g, I agree with you.  It is full of &#8220;fear, fear, fear.&#8221;  This is a tactic Bush/Cheney utilized to control media spin, and if you also notice, the author worked under Bush so is well trained in that strategy.  I am disappointed that Veterans Today ran this, as it is not based on truth, but religious conclusions.  Veterans need the truth and can match up their beliefs however they choose.</p>
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		<title>By: Loren Watts</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22269</link>
		<dc:creator>Loren Watts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22269</guid>
		<description>Why is there a book like this?  The VA&#039;s job, is to help vet&#039;s make the best of there lives  to provide the resources of a grateful nation.   The socialist&#039;s in government want to save money by getting those who have suffered for this nation to give up their lives and reduce VA costs so the money can be given to Acorn to buy more Democrat votes.  To those who have lived, they all know dieing is easy.  You don&#039;t need a book to help it along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is there a book like this?  The VA&#8217;s job, is to help vet&#8217;s make the best of there lives  to provide the resources of a grateful nation.   The socialist&#8217;s in government want to save money by getting those who have suffered for this nation to give up their lives and reduce VA costs so the money can be given to Acorn to buy more Democrat votes.  To those who have lived, they all know dieing is easy.  You don&#8217;t need a book to help it along.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22260</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 19:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22260</guid>
		<description>As a Veteran I find this document offensive and impractical. Why make a Veteran feel useless and a burden to society and family. You are ready to blame the right wing. This argument is getting old. Do you know that the doctor who wrote that document is for assisted suicide. What a coincidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Veteran I find this document offensive and impractical. Why make a Veteran feel useless and a burden to society and family. You are ready to blame the right wing. This argument is getting old. Do you know that the doctor who wrote that document is for assisted suicide. What a coincidence.</p>
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		<title>By: rjrt</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22181</link>
		<dc:creator>rjrt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22181</guid>
		<description>another act against health care reform</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>another act against health care reform</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Starowicz</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22165</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Starowicz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22165</guid>
		<description>Seems the above author is a part of the new spin trying to frighten the flock into screaming about anything they can find to justify their twisted wants, gee sounds like the many excuses used to justify the killing and destruction in Iraq. I&#039;ve now seen this printed out in a number of online sights and offline so called conservative periodicals, it&#039;s a concerted effort, either this clown is a part of it or just got used by his herders!!

You frankly are an irresponsible adult if you don&#039;t research a living will, your choice in whether you sign one, and thinking what an extension of your life, via drugs and tubes and unconcious, will do not only for the quality of life but as to your family!

But the sheep seem worried, as they don&#039;t think for themselves now, that some boogeyman will decide their fate, Oh Wait they already do, It&#039;s Called Denial Of Service By The Insurance Companies, After Paying For years The Premiums, So The Investors And Execs Can Keep Them Profits Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems the above author is a part of the new spin trying to frighten the flock into screaming about anything they can find to justify their twisted wants, gee sounds like the many excuses used to justify the killing and destruction in Iraq. I&#8217;ve now seen this printed out in a number of online sights and offline so called conservative periodicals, it&#8217;s a concerted effort, either this clown is a part of it or just got used by his herders!!</p>
<p>You frankly are an irresponsible adult if you don&#8217;t research a living will, your choice in whether you sign one, and thinking what an extension of your life, via drugs and tubes and unconcious, will do not only for the quality of life but as to your family!</p>
<p>But the sheep seem worried, as they don&#8217;t think for themselves now, that some boogeyman will decide their fate, Oh Wait they already do, It&#8217;s Called Denial Of Service By The Insurance Companies, After Paying For years The Premiums, So The Investors And Execs Can Keep Them Profits Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: carlhandup</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22135</link>
		<dc:creator>carlhandup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22135</guid>
		<description>This is my second request to be removed from your email listing...Your story is so off the wall, and you&#039;re doing a disservice to all concerned.  Get your facts together...getting information on the decussions that need to be made before your death is a good thing.  You draw the wrong picture and you know it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my second request to be removed from your email listing&#8230;Your story is so off the wall, and you&#8217;re doing a disservice to all concerned.  Get your facts together&#8230;getting information on the decussions that need to be made before your death is a good thing.  You draw the wrong picture and you know it.</p>
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		<title>By: OPen your eyes</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22122</link>
		<dc:creator>OPen your eyes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22122</guid>
		<description>Your comment is narrow minded. This is the greatest &quot;veterans health care abuse&quot;. Watch the movie &quot;Logans Run&quot; to see how compasionate convincing leads to society&#039;s solution when you (the individual) are deemed no longer benificial to it. 
  Which &quot;asshole&quot; will you screw when they introduce the &quot;Obama drip&quot; in your viens to hasten your journey to Carasel (Logan Run reference)?

 I fought for freedom, not right of the government to kill me as soon as they deem me a non-productive Lemming. 

 Get onboard to save your life or just take the drip now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your comment is narrow minded. This is the greatest &#8220;veterans health care abuse&#8221;. Watch the movie &#8220;Logans Run&#8221; to see how compasionate convincing leads to society&#8217;s solution when you (the individual) are deemed no longer benificial to it.<br />
  Which &#8220;asshole&#8221; will you screw when they introduce the &#8220;Obama drip&#8221; in your viens to hasten your journey to Carasel (Logan Run reference)?</p>
<p> I fought for freedom, not right of the government to kill me as soon as they deem me a non-productive Lemming. </p>
<p> Get onboard to save your life or just take the drip now!</p>
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		<title>By: Byron Skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22121</link>
		<dc:creator>Byron Skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22121</guid>
		<description>Good Evening Folks,

I&#039;m in agreement with Duff on this one but most likely for different reasons. Having been and still am a patient in the VA Healthcare System, since 1967 I have seen the document spoken of as well as several others that came before it, that deal with choices for end of life care.

A Veteran has the option of not filling out any of these documents that are referred to as &quot;Living Wills&quot;, and will get the standard, heroic efforts treatment at the end, the tubes, hoses, wires, needles the whole nine yards. But if this is not your choice of how you want to exit the world you are offered to express your desires, four choices not offered are assisted suicide, suicide, euthanasia or when to terminate treatment.

&quot;Your life, your choice&quot; is a reasonable document that deals with such factors as religious preferences, how the patient wants to have it at the end such as to be at home, in a limited care facility or what ever choice the Veteran may want, there is no list to chose from. Ideally this process is done when the patient enters the system and is reviewed periodically.

The only &quot;Death Panel&quot; is yourself.  It is a very sad day when radical right wing politicos make a political pi**ing contest out of such a personal and basic decision. 

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Evening Folks,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in agreement with Duff on this one but most likely for different reasons. Having been and still am a patient in the VA Healthcare System, since 1967 I have seen the document spoken of as well as several others that came before it, that deal with choices for end of life care.</p>
<p>A Veteran has the option of not filling out any of these documents that are referred to as &#8220;Living Wills&#8221;, and will get the standard, heroic efforts treatment at the end, the tubes, hoses, wires, needles the whole nine yards. But if this is not your choice of how you want to exit the world you are offered to express your desires, four choices not offered are assisted suicide, suicide, euthanasia or when to terminate treatment.</p>
<p>&#8220;Your life, your choice&#8221; is a reasonable document that deals with such factors as religious preferences, how the patient wants to have it at the end such as to be at home, in a limited care facility or what ever choice the Veteran may want, there is no list to chose from. Ideally this process is done when the patient enters the system and is reviewed periodically.</p>
<p>The only &#8220;Death Panel&#8221; is yourself.  It is a very sad day when radical right wing politicos make a political pi**ing contest out of such a personal and basic decision. </p>
<p>ALLONS,<br />
Byron Skinner</p>
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		<title>By: Bente Petersen</title>
		<link>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/20/the-death-book-for-veterans/comment-page-1/#comment-22103</link>
		<dc:creator>Bente Petersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://127.0.0.1/?p=8335#comment-22103</guid>
		<description>Just more psych crap - welcome to NAZI Germany in the Land of Freedom 
CHOICES  my foot - live life enjoy life or endure life - - Euthanasia is what it
is is murder or suicide - not a survival thing for anyone or any society.
scrap the psych crap. Land lets live - enoy - endure.

Bente Petersen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just more psych crap &#8211; welcome to NAZI Germany in the Land of Freedom<br />
CHOICES  my foot &#8211; live life enjoy life or endure life &#8211; - Euthanasia is what it<br />
is is murder or suicide &#8211; not a survival thing for anyone or any society.<br />
scrap the psych crap. Land lets live &#8211; enoy &#8211; endure.</p>
<p>Bente Petersen</p>
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