RETIRED VA OFFICIAL: LOS ANGELES VETERANS LAND "STOLEN"
November 26, 2009 by Gordon Duff · 40 Comments
STOLEN PROMISES
By Ralph W. Eckard
The purpose of this article is to address what has become a much debated and argued issued regarding land that was gifted and deeded to our nations veterans. It is intended that this will be the first of a number of articles addressing this matter. Articles will continue until such time that our elected officials and individuals employed by the Depart of Veterans Affairs to protect the interest of our nations veterans do their duty and at honorably.
In 1887, a time in America when its citizens, politicians and leaders had appreciation and respect for her veterans; families began donating land. This land was deeded for the sole purpose of establishing the first Soldiers Home west of the Rockies. The home was intended to assure that no honorably discharged disabled veteran would be left homeless. Over the years the land donations accrued to approximately 600 acres along what is now known as Wilshire Boulevard and San Samente.(sp)
Over the years, the land has come under attack many times. At one point Route 405 cut through the property, then Wilshire Boulevard itself was laid down reducing the property significantly. Veterans, who are truly the ultimate public servants, understand the need for growth and expansion and the sacrifices were made. The donated and deeded land now, only 128 years later, consist of approximately 16 acres.
There are approximately 1 million veterans living within a fifty mile radius of this deeded land.
Unfortunately, this land is a beautiful piece of real-estate, strategically located and worth approximately 50 million dollars an acre. This brings us to a more modern age. A time when our politicians and leaders don’t believe in keeping promises, nor do they care if others made promises to our veterans. Sure, we hear everyday how proud we are of our veterans and they are our nations heroes but, these are hollow words with little if no meaning.
As a disabled veteran of the Vietnam conflict I speak from experience. After Viet Nam the Veterans in this country were tossed out with the bath water by our government and its leaders. The “kids” of the military today are and will be treated no differently. Why shouldn’t they have been discarded when we consider the comments of such leaders as Barbara Boxer who stated several years ago that “we didn’t send our best or brightest to Viet Nam“. Could anything be more demeaning?
It is only because of “private programs” such as the Fisher House and Wounded Warriors and some select veterans organizations shoring up the Department of Veterans Affairs that our young veterans returning home are having their needs met.
In recent years there have been a number of attacks on the property. In 1988, an attack was made when a group wrestled for control of the veterans land under the false wrap of designating it as a veterans Conservancy. No one seemed to know what the function of the Conservancy was to be. The only thing clear at that time is that the intended use was not to serve veterans.
Today the veterans face the “Waxman machine”, supported by individuals employed by the Department of Veterans Affairs. Mr. Ralph E. Tillman, Director of Asset Management for greater LA, is actively involved in this endeavor. It was always assumed that individuals employed by the DVA were selected or appointed to their positions to support and protect the interest of our nations. It now appears that Mr. Tillman and his Waxman machine are doing so to acquire this land.
Due to this, 1 million dollars has been spent to fence in the property which actually has a two sided purpose. The fence not only keeps our nations veterans off the land deeded for their use but additionally beautifies the entrance to Brentwood. Not only has the fence been erected, the ground now has built upon it a police headquarters, and is patrolled by multiple police vehicles all having been procured using funds intended for veteran care.
The grounds are patrolled by un- sworn Department of Veterans Affairs employees dressed in police uniforms. One would have to believe that the facility would have to request additional funding to support such a program from DVA Central Office in Washington, D.C. Since such facility improvements and staff would need to come from the Medical Centers annual budget additional funds would need to be granted by Washington. Does anyone wonder what Washington’s position is on this matter?.
The individuals wearing police uniforms who work for DVA are not sworn officers nor do they have independent arrest authority. Generally, Police and Security Services within the DVA try to garner authority from an agency within the Department of Justice such as, the Federal Marshalls. The authority can vary from facility to facility as with the authority of these individuals to carry firearms.
In most instances permission to carry firearms is approved or disapproved by the Medical Center Director. In addition, Police and Security Service will have a varied structure. In some facilities the Chief of Police and Security Service will work for the Medical Center Director, in others it may be for the Chief of Engineering Service or even the Chief of Facilities Management Service. Any authority granted to these individuals is restricted to the grounds that the VA facilities occupy and only those grounds.
In consideration of what has been previously stated, it only garners one question, why there are volumes of photographs depicting VA staff in uniform performing functions off the DVA grounds? Case in fact is that these individuals have been executing arrest off DVA grounds.
Case in point involves Viet Nam era veteran Mr. Robert Rosebrock who was arrested for unauthorized demonstration or services in a national cemetery or other VA property. In fact, Mr. Rosebrock was by all accounts off DVA property. In another instance veterans are blamed for displaying a torn placard. The placard, referred to by the uniformed staff member, was indeed the flag of the United States of America. Additionally, in another matter veterans are accused of desecrating an American Flag and burning it on Wilshire Boulevard.
Do your politicians want this land so desperately that they will stop at nothing, including the humiliation and dishonor of our nations veterans? Millions of dollars are begin taken away from services required by our Veterans all over this great nation of ours to support the 30th district machine and their pirating. Word is that the grounds will be designated as a public park and used for functions such as carnivals, wine tasting events as well as a place for special emphasis groups to gather.
Let’s support our nations veterans and permit them to keep what they have earned and what has been promised to them. Do the words of one of Americas greatest Presidents not ring true anymore. President Abraham Lincoln clearly stated that this nation shall care for those who have born the burden of battle, his widow and his orphan. It’s about time that leaders of our country do the honorable thing. Keep this nations promises to our nations truest public servants. Our heroes of yesterday, today and tomorrow.
Bill Eckard is a Marine combat veteran, double amputee and served the VA for 34 years, much in the area of management and development of the prosthetics division.
(Bill and I served together in Vietnam. G. Duff)
Excellent reporting. Thank you.
Bill,
Shooting Tillman might have been kinder. However, I keep forgetting that bureaucrats can’t die of shame like normal humans.
g
I made an ofer to have my legal dept review the details and my attorney would assist in preparing a federal complaint to be filed in the Federal court in LA regaring this fruadulent conveyance, the docrimination, and the negligence of all all city, state, and federal elected and appointed officials as well as VA employess would be listed as defenants.
Not one piece of detailed information has arrived. Reorting is great by nothing will move forward unless this case is filed ina federal venue and given a docket number.
Those who have committed these crimes are counting on veterans just talking about this issue. History shows that sibce WWII veterans do not stand up for themselves and since Vietnam era the US congress and senate ignore veterans.
The statue of limitations may have already passed. Van anyone email me some details? Start with the original gift letter, a deed, send me names, and I will have my attorney begin writing up the complaint.
Making a Federal case out of this is the only way to proceed. Jim said it best, complaining in public forums does nothing. This must be diled in the federal court ASAP. Will someone send some factual documents?
Come on guys, George Lovenguth Email: legal@lovebooks.pro
George,
Have you considered using FOIA? Rosebrock has sent me stacks of documents. The ACLU has stacks of documents. I have spent hours reading leases, minutes of meetings and deeds.
I think you are right, this should go to federal court. There are even more issues than the conveyance.
Rosebrock sent me a 1989 document from Sue Young, a "smoking gun" as it were, describing how this land had to be used to prevent veterans from living too near Brentwood.
You will love that one.
Not all documents have been given up. The VA has refused to turn over some. There have not been FOIA requests for all.
I suggest you meeting with Rosebrock but also coordinate with the ACLU attorneys handing aspects of the case.
g
Roger that! I’m sure these folks you mentioned at very good at what they do but they may be too entrenched and also from the old school of thought and action regarding the filing of a federal complaint. In 2007 the administration under Ashcroft and Gonzales completely re=did the federal filing procedures to better get their agenda items moved forward while the rest of America was distracted by the terrorists and wars.
I’m neither a lawyer nor an attorney but during my recovery from the 25 radiations for Agent Orange I read every update daily on those procedures and I’m quite familiar with them. FYI: a case need not be fully developed to be filed. They made it so simple a complaint only need to name the plaintiffs, the defendants, and the complaint itself. That’s it!
This alone gets the case a docket number. Then the defendants have a period of up to 90 days to respond and so on. I need that basic info now and via an email if you have it. I’ve draft it out and return it to you so someone in the California area can file it.
Here’s another reason I want to expedite this filing process, the defendants don’t expect a complaint to be filed thus they are not prepared to respond. They figure they have this in the bag and they also just might have someone (MENTIONED) IN THEIR POCKET. It happens. And waiting for any of those involved to feel shame and retreat is a waste of our time and an advantage to them. Statute of limitations etc.
Another point, I do not have any association with anyone out that way. I owe no one anything, and I sure as hell and not intimidated but any of them. Some of those mentioned do not want to look bad or piss anyone off as they may be connected in some other way. I’m in Puerto Rico finishing up my Agent Orange treatments and I will be returning to Florida to begin working on my United States Senator campaign FOR THE 2010 election in Florida.
I’ve already pissed off the other professional politicians there and I’ll be busy once I return to Florida.
I was homeless when that PTSD hit me in the late 1980’s and I worked through it by helping really messed up vets get their benefits and this issue really is winnable. Time however is of the essence here and me having meetings and all that BS will not work. My rotors are spinning right now and a strike is what is required now. Total surprise to them and then, while their attorneys are scrambling on how to respond and fighting each other with their ego problems, then I will meet and assemble the detailed facts. The burden of proof falls on the defendants here, not the veterans.
The defendants will have to prove them did nothing wrong. Anyway, the time to file (attack) is now; get me the defendant’s names, the address of property, and the name of whom will be the filing plaintiff.
In the meantime tonight, I will read for any Federal filing procedure updates as they do slip them in. We can have this filed by next week. If you will, don’t tell too many people at this moment. Yeah, some will read of this on the forum but no need to make a big public announcement right now. Once the case is filed many attorneys will be coming out of the woodwork to assist, some pro bono just for the publicity.
I’ll make sure the filing makes the news and this will snowball into a full blown public interest story. Just get me the plaintiffs name(s) involved, and the address of the property, and the group and names of those who took it and allowed it to advance, they are the defendants in this matter.
We will file for a hardship waiver as to the filing fee.
George
The time for talking is over, it’s time to write the complaint and file it. Also, should those you mention disagree remind them that it’s the holiday period and with the courts all being shut down too ,we will have a lot of time to put the details together. Again, the burden is on the defendants here, not the plaintiffs. Please email me the names, address, and I’ll have my attorney here draft it all up and I will email it back to you and then your guy files it. That simple my friend. Use my secure email okay. Scribe@LoveBooks.pro
Just need to add that I WAS a commercial real estate broker licensed in New Jersey and Florida between 1983 -2007, and know a little bit about property laws.
One reason why the VA documents haven’t been forth coming is that this was an under the table deal and no documents exist. think about it.
Just remember that the burden of proof in this case falls on the defendants. means…..their laywers do all the work.
Talk later, George Lovenguth
Bill: Thanks for a great and timely article.
Yet, on Thanksgiving Day, how can any American citizen be thankful for the way our government treats those who have defended our nation’s freedoms?
There needs to be a serious house cleaning here at the largest VA in the nation, and as Gordon Duff has rightly declared, “When you clean house, the first thing you do is take out the trash.” And you start at the top of the trash heap and haul off Tillman.
As someone who’s been protesting on the outside of the fence and fully understands what is going on behind the enemy’s fence, there is enough incriminating evidence against the perpetrators who orchestrated these disgraceful land heists to see them hauled off in handcuffs and shackles.
Thus, George is right about the need for a federal lawsuit. And Gordon is right that we coordinate with the ACLU attorneys. First, they want to work toward dismissing the five citations issued against me for “display of placards or material,” i.e., the American Flag in “Distress,” the POW/MIA flag, and Military Order of Purple Heart banner.
Leading up to my February 4, 2010 trial in federal court, the discovery and investigative pursuit should really rock the halls of congress and awaken the American people as to what has been going on behind these multi-million dollar gates while homeless Veterans sleep on the outside of them. Eventually, this will expose those who have facilitated the greedy fat-cats that confiscated this sacred land for personal benefit, and fully explain why Veterans have been properly hanging the American Flag in the “Distress” mode because both Veterans lives and our property are in serious danger.
When all of this is fully reported and prosecuted, it will be one of the most embarrassing events in American history … so great that Ralph Tillman will make Benedict Arnold look like an American Patriot.
It’s important to clarify a reference made in Bill’s article, and that is Veterans demonstrating at the Sunday Rallies outside of the VA have never had any torn American Flags at any time, nor did we ever throw the American Flag on the ground or burn it. That conduct is simply not in our DNA, however, the VA has consistently flown seriously torn, tattered and soiled flags on Veterans sacred land, including at half-staff during Senator Kennedy’s recent passing away.
The VA bureaucrats are a desperate bunch and will stoop to the lowest level to falsely belittle or besmirch any Veteran in order to cover up their malfeasance and abuse of Veterans property and health care services.
The first citation that the VA police issued me was for “unauthorized demonstration” and having a “torn U.S. flag.” This was a blatantly false and trumped-up charge and was subsequently dismissed in federal court.
The VA police issued me five other citations for “display of placard or material,” and each makes reference to the American flag being “upside down.” The Flag in this mode is completely legal and is not desecration in any manner whatsoever. This is the “Distress” signal when life or property are in danger. Make no mistake; our Veterans property is in serious danger and so are the lives of 20,000 fellow Veterans who are homeless on the dangerous streets of Los Angeles, even though this is their rightful “Home.”
The U.S. Flag Code, Title 36, U.S.C., Chapter 10, as amended by P. L. 344, 94th Congress, approved July 7, 1976, and under 176, (a) “The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.”
We are entering into the legal arena via the ACLU defense of my First Amendment Rights, and we are very proud of this representation and believe that it will ultimately lead to the full exposure of the abuse and misuse of Veterans land.
Thank you so much Robert Rosebrock for what you are and have been doing for all American veterans. When I went to the Post Office last week… I thought of you and all that you are going through… the way you are being wrongly harassed. The flag pole at the Post Office was at least two inches too close to the brick building and the end of our U.S. Flag was tattered from blowing in the wind and hitting the brick building over and over and over… and nobody hardly notices these things…if at all… BUT, I know that veterans do… they were willing to die for that flag. How dare anyone accuse you of disrespecting our flag… by doing what was and IS right. Again, thank you.
You know what… at first I was sad… But, I’m mad now… Think about it… you are harassed for properly displaying the U.S. Flag upside down as a sign of distress of property – and much more at stake… lives. AND THEY HAVE AT THEIR OWN U.S. POST OFFICE A FLAG THAT IS BEING WILLFULLY DESECRATED ON A DAILY BASIS… IN PUBLIC VIEW??????????
SHAMELESS!
If I was a movie producer I would have my people go out and get the book, TV, and movie rights to the, “Bob Rosebrock story”. Here is a guy who is passionate about what he is doing about the great VA land grab.
Fore eighty eight, that’s 88 Sundays from 1pm to 4pm he has spearheaded the peaceful demonstration at the West Los Angeles Veterans home. A person who is passionate about a thing will knock on doors until their knuckles are bloody, and then they change hands. Being passionnet means you will not be denied and you will see it through to the end. Bob has fought the fight to the late afternoon, to just before twilight. We know how the story goes, the guy in the white hat always wins, and the bad guys get run out of town. Damn, I wish I was a movie producer.
Dear Fran Lawrence:
A BIG Thanks for your loyal support to this cause and for all your endless dedication to other Veterans issues.
The VA bureaucrats and politicians have willfully and wrongfully violated both the 1887 Act of Congress that established the go ahead for two families to donate this land via a legal Deed, and said land is “to be permanently maintained as a National Home for Disabled Soldiers,” yet our government does absolutely nothing about these ruthless robber barons who have stolen billions of dollars of Veterans property for personal gain.
On the other hand, when Veterans follow the law in challenging their corruptness, we are maliciously cited with false charges and hauled off to federal court.
Nonetheless, we are going to win this war against the “domestic enemy” because truth is on our side and justice will eventually prevail.
Thanks again for all your support!
Of Course There Is Always The Other Side of the Story…even if Veterans Today will not allow it to be published?
We are not all in agreement with VT on this one, why even this individaul who knows the issue far better than VT disagrees?
West LA VA land descendant of donor speaks out
Descendant of VA land donor responds to park controversy
By Carolina Winston Barrie
I would like to respond to a letter in your December edition from Robert Rosebrock and Francisco Juarez which contained distortions and false charges about the Veterans Park Conservancy. I am a member of the Board of Directors of that organization, but more to the point, I have a family obligation to insure that the intentions of the original gift of land are faithfully carried out. My name is Carolina Winston Barrie. I am a descendant of Arcadia Bandini de Baker. In 1888, the United States government, by a special act of congress, accepted 300 acres of land for the benefit of veterans of foreign wars. This gift was from Arcadia and Senator John Percival Jones for the sole purpose of providing Veterans with a place to heal from war. Never has that desire to heal been more important than today as our sons and daughters return home with scars of battle in their bodies and minds.Three generations of my family have fought to maintain the healing mission of the original gift (which became the V.A Hospital and recreational facilities). The physical and mental facilities of the V.A. have always been overwhelmed and under-funded. The Government’s neglect of our Veterans has been a national scandal long before Iraq. Yet over the years, the more valuable the acreage became, the more land developers plotted to steal it and convert it to profit. Our family has resisted schemes for shopping malls, condominiums, even an NFL Stadium. And we might not have prevailed had it not been for the formation of the Veterans Park Conservancy.Founded in 1986 to protect and enhance the land, the organization’s director, Susan Young, and its Chairman, retired three-war hero Gwynn Robinson, have led the efforts along with other groups to save and re-vitalize the VA property. Buildings were rebuilt, rusty fencing was replaced, decayed monuments revived, and a Chapel, first used by veterans of the Civil War, was restored to it’s original beauty with the help of the Bob Hope family.Had it not been for the dedication and hard work of Veterans Park Conservancy, Senators Alan Cranston, Pete Wilson, Dianne Feinstein, Congressman Henry Waxman, Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky and others for the last two decades, the deeded land, the VA facilities and the open parkland space would have been sold to the highest bidder by the Federal Government. Indeed the new State Veterans Home and the expansion of the National Cemetery would never have happened. These achievements are a clear example of how a caring, non-profit, private sector group can raise the large sums of money necessary to do work that the Bureaucratic Federal Government can never find the budget for. THE BRENTWOOD NEWS accurately chronicled the achievements in its November cover story, “Home of the Brave.” In the light of that long overdue tribute, my family and I find it distressing that anyone who read it would attack the motivation and the achievements of Veteran’s Park Conservancy under the guise of being a Veteran’s spokesperson. To call VPC “a modern day Trojan Horse designed to subvert the deed” is to insult not only its membership (one third of whom are Veterans), but all the nationally recognized veterans organizations who have passed resolutions of support, as well as all the donors, large and small, whose contributions have saved the land and enforced my family’s original intentions. Very truly yours, CAROLINA WINSTON BARRIE
Hey "Publius"
The letter you accuse us of not printing is two years old and has appeared on these pages and been linked to once by me and posted here again by whoever you are.
If you Google it you will find it all over the web as well.
I see no point in reprinting Ms Barrie’s self serving apologia for the land barons.
I hope this helps you with your "thought" process.
Bob Higgins
Hey? First stage of horse sh%#
Which is what you are about in your comments here, you at VT keep regurgitating your personal point of view but accept no other including the family representative?
I really dont think you remote editors have a clue about what is actually going on this matter and other stories you post.
This lady whom you hold in contempt, speaks for 129 surviving family members who deeded the land in the first place, if their point of view is uncomfortable for you then perhaps you might simply take an objective point of view instead of your ad hominem attacks.
And besides you’re the ones who keep reposting the story to begin with?
Rosebrock hangs the flag up side down, some of us resent that, he exempts himself from the rules the rest of us are obliged to conduct ourselves by not hanging banners and signs on the VA fences?
He is a fraud and so are you….hey indeed ass.
Show respect get respect, show none get none, Hey?
Whoever the hell you are, Ralph W. Eckard, is a Marine double amputee, Silver Star winner and 34 year winner. Your hatred of veterans and your disrespect for America is plain as day.
The group you represent, whether descended from Pocohontos or whoever, is known to us. I have reviewed Sue Youngs 1989 HUD document which clearly states the aims of your group:
Keep veterans away from Brentwood.
Ms. Barrie, in this case, you have bitten off more than you can chew.
If it is General Robinson’s intention to smear the service of American heroes along with the sin of fronting for a pack of suburban spoiled no accounts, it is his responsibility.
Thus far, he has dishonored his uniform thru his association with this project and you.
Gordon Duff
Senior Editor
Hey Pubilas: Is this the same Carolina Winston Barrie that wrote:
– Dear Mr. President, (GW Bush) My family’s intention was clear. The land was given for the benefit of the veterans themselves, who have made enormous sacrifices so that all of us can live freely in this wonderful country. This property was selected because it was warm and balmy and close to the ocean breezes. It was never intended that it would be traded for something else. To do so would be a betrayal of the purpose of my family’s donation.
Mrs. Carolina Winston Barrie — Is this the same “family” member that sits on the board of the wealthy Brentwood homeowner group that wants to turn Veterans land into “central park west”? A Trojan Horse is a Trojan Horse, and a robber baron is a robber baron.
Hey Publius: Put your real name up or shut up! Arcadia de Baker, one of the land donors, died in 1912. She had no children and left no will. Records show that “cousins” fought over her estate that was estimated to be worth $12 million. So who are these “129 surviving family members” you speak of? Ms. de Baker left her land to her true “heirs,” America’s Veterans. Because you and all the rest of the WLA robber barons have stolen our land, we responsibly hang the U.S. Flag in “Distress,” and within the U.S. Flag code, and it is certainly not “desecration” as the associate director at the VA has stupidly declared. Just Honor the Deed of 1888 from Ms. de Baker and John P. Jones: “To be permanently maintained as a National Home for Disabled Volunteer Soldiers.” Now, get your ass off our property!
Robert,
Where did they get this crazy woman from anyway?
g
Hey Publius:
Following is the article that Ms. Barrie was responding to. Our article speaks the truth and she never once disproves that we are absolutely right that this is a Trojan Horse to get inside and steal Veterans land. She seems to be a decent, well-meaning lady, but she has been hoodwinked by Sue Young and her ilk that are stealing this land. And you are in bed with these robber barons.
We Honor Our Veterans by Honoring the Deed to Their National Home
Thank you for your “Home of the Brave” interview. Unfortunately, some of the responses by Sue Young, Executive Director of Veterans Park Conservancy (VPC) and Jim Folsom, Director of the Huntington Botanical Gardens regarding their proposed park at the Los Angeles National Veterans Home were disingenuous and contemptuous.
On March 3, 1888, landowners Arcadia Bandini Stearns de Baker and Senator John Percival Jones unselfishly bequeathed and faithfully entrusted nearly 800 acres to the United States Government to permanently maintain a National Home for the exclusive benefit of America’s Military Veterans. And for nearly a century, every generation loyally enforced and honorably upheld the guiding principles and patriotic spirit of the Deed until recent years, when business and special interest “land grabbing” became an assumed entitlement at the expense of our Veterans.
A Modern-Day Trojan Horse
VPC’s proposed “veterans park” is sheer deception as their website specifically declares that the 16-acre parcel will be for the “creation of the first new community park to be built in West Los Angeles in over 50 years. It further states: “What we have in mind is a scaled-down version of a grand community park in the tradition of New York’s Central Park. Most importantly, it will attract all segments of our West Los Angeles community: Veterans and civilians, children and adults, featuring numerous activities for everyone.”
Make no mistake; VPC’s so-called “shrine in honor of our veterans” is nothing more than a modern-day Trojan Horse designed to subvert the Deed so they can invade, conquer and build a massive public park on the Veterans’ sacred land. VPC confirms their plans for an all-encompassing community park by declaring that the 16-acre parcel will “Demonstrate the positive community impact of reclamation of open space for public use, setting a precedent for discussion about the remaining federal property.”
In an attempt to deflect the truth about their Trojan Horse scheme, Ms. Young portrays VPC as a hero riding on the proverbial white horse to save Veterans property from commercial development: “We wanted to make certain that the property could not be sold to the highest bidder.” What she conveniently fails to mention is that in the process of “getting approvals at the highest levels” of government, VPC orchestrated a brazen behind-the-scenes, no-bid, rent-free agreement for a public community park, all under the guise of “honoring our veterans.”
History Repeating Itself
VPC’s recent backroom wheeling and dealing in Washington D.C. represents the greatest land heist since the Indians were given $24 worth of beads and trinkets for Manhattan. At least they were given “something” for their land. To the contrary, the expropriation of this hallowed land was acquired “rent free” at the painful expense of America’s Military Veterans who will receive absolutely nothing except an onrush of public invasion onto their once exclusive and quiet haven for rest and rehabilitation.
The 16-acre parcel is arguably the most valuable on the West coast and is estimated to be worth more than a quarter-billion dollars, yet not one penny goes to the Veterans. Ironically, not since Benedict Arnold tried to surrender West Point to the British has there been such a selfish act for similar hallowed grounds. Tragically, this land has been finagled from the very men and women who have bravely defended America’s freedom and democracy, and particularly deprives those who are disabled and need privacy and quietude during their convalescence.
Veterans will never forget VPC’s degrading slur against the time-honored “Duty, Honor, Country” creed of West Point and the watchword for all who serve in the military when they irreverently engraved “Beauty, Honor, Country” in stone at the National Home.
Veterans also remember VPC’s inability to finance their “majestic wrought iron fence” to beautify the entryway into Brentwood and subsequently hoodwinked the VA into donating $1 million of Veteran’s seriously needed healthcare money in order to complete their pretentious project.
“Such People”
In your interview, Brentwood News asks: “What do you think of the veterans who claim this is just a big ‘land grab.’“ Mr. Folsom responded: “What such people are saying is that our veterans don’t deserve a kinder, gentler environment for healing.” What a slanderous remark against Veterans who responsibly disagree with this gratuitous public park. No, Mr. Folsom, it is you and your VPC cohorts who think Veterans are undeserving by shamelessly trying to turn this century-old Veterans’ Home of historic serenity and reverence into a clamorous and raucous public community park.
Equally disturbing is his discriminatory reference to Veterans who morally oppose this land grab as “such people,” which underscores the condescending and pompous attitude that VPC displays whenever the Veterans-at-large disagree with their self-serving mission to beautify and serve Brentwood’s “wants” at the expense of our fellow Veterans’ “needs.”
Enforce the Deed
There’s absolutely nothing in the Deed of 1888 that allows anyone to designate any land for a public park, open space, commercial use, or any other purpose whatsoever, other than for the direct benefit of America’s Military Veterans. It’s time to stop the manipulative and opportunistic land grabbing at the National Veterans Home and to start enforcing the Deed. That’s the only way to truly honor our Veterans.
Robert L. Rosebrock and Francisco Juarez
Co-Directors, “We the Veterans”
Rosebrock youve had you 15 minutes of fame pay your dues maggot, stop insulting the family that afforded veterans the land to begin with, stop picking fights with them you have danaged the relationship that could have been with them by you and you cohorts ignorance ill informed views, who appointed you all to do this?
You have no right what so ever to hang flags on the VA facilities and certainly do not represent the rest of us as you hang the flag upside down.
The family are resolute in opposing your conduct.
Stomp up an down, waste your days , no one gives a rip about your protest out there no one stops, no one contributes, your just another angry vet on the corner, not much else.
Ask Mr. Waxman how much heat he is getting for playing with your petty political gang?
This is now a national issue. Have you chosen to become a national celeb?
Over a century ago, people you may or may not have been related to showed patriotic decency.
Now, you are showing greed and bad taste.
Have your pet General contact us to explain his position and his heroics you brag about so much.
You don’t think we follow things like this?
Dear Publius,
You have made it very clear how you feel about our country’s veterans that you are insulting here, and when you do… you are insulting ALL OF US… when you call us ‘maggot’ and tell us…we’re ‘another angry vet on the corner, not much else.’
I’m not feeling the love here for those that served with honor.
Thank you for showing what ‘the family’ really thinks of our country’s courageous and brave veterans.
I am a veteran married to a disabled combat veteran. Judging from your writings, ‘the family’ thinks we are only ‘maggots’ that should be standing on the corner holding cardboard signs and that’s where we belong….
Come on admit it. Say it. Tell us what ‘the family’ really thinks about America’s son’s and daughters, mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers that come back from war on America’s… our behalf.
Tell us. Tell the truth. Your attitude is already showing everyone.
Fran Lawrence
An American Veteran with a real name
puberty or whatever — You’re a total coward and afraid to put up your name. I’d be ashamed too if I was stealing sacred land from Veterans. Nobody speaks for Arcadia de Baker! Her words are in the Deed of 1888 and nowhere does it mention a public park, open space and all the other garbage that sue young keeps fabricating in order to keep 20,000 homeless Veterans from their rightful “Home.” This so-called “family” you allude to is aiding and abetting in the theft of Veterans property given by John P. Jones and Ms. Baker. Just as you cannot honor the Deed of 1888, you cannot honor the U.S. Flag Code. You’re a fake, fraud and an embarrassment to the human race. Put up your name or shut up!!
This “publius” puke, isn’t that the name of the little swisher guy that did the major sucking-up to Caesar back in Rome?
I was on the Veterans Advisory Commission in 1989 and spoke, in September, and in March of 1990, to the Board of Supervisory, mainly to Yeroslafsky. He promised he would “Take care of the Veterans”. (Both meetings are available to view) Well he did, and has been doing it ever since, along with sue young, zora chrissoloff, waxman and the rest of the dog pack of brentwood, still lead by the cheif musher, sue young. She changed the name of her pack three times, first it was the brentwood homeowner’s assoc then to the brentwood park preserve, then to the brentwood park conservancy. This was a feeble attempt at throwing people off her trail because of all the back stabbing she was doing. Dr Robert Delzell was the Chairman of the Veterans Advisory Commission at that time. He and I met and talked with the vpc’s lawyers, Bill Belding and his gofer asst. Robert Bell. I asked eleven times if there was a plan in place that would show what the plans were for the sixteen acres in question. Eleven times the question evaded with the usual lawyer doublespeak. Serious considerations were given to putting up an amusement park, tennis courts, and a velodrome. All of which twisted, turned, and faded like leaves on a tree when met with opposition.
Let’s just fast-forward the tape. If this friggen dog pack was truly honest, forthright, and earnestly wanted to help Veterans this would have been a done deal in 1990, the bottom line is the same as it was for Judas, a few lousy pieces of silver, for small people that were sat on the potty cross-way as a kid and think this betrayal will take the place of therapy.
you guys are full of crap….a stalking horse looking for an issue? This aint it, you have lost the support of the families who bestowed the gift, perhaps you need best attend a political science class to better understand what you have done, destroyed your movement, all this hooweee how Waxman ans Yaroslovsky have failed you?
You dont represent the majority of the veterans community, can this nonsense of a ‘national movement’ the only movement you are all a part of is your misrepresentation of the true facts, and your movement reeks like the brown water that runs down the drain your crap flows through.
If you hadnt lost the support of the families you might have had a better chance but you alienated them even here today, such ingrates you are.
All this nonsense every body in government is wrong and only you are right? One of you swears to it the other signs it?
Get serious, look about you the WLA-VA serves thousands, the VA serves millions, you serve no one except your ego.
Who do you people think you are to cast such insults what exactly is it you do that makes you so much the authorized Vox ?
We have lost the support of the greedy 4th generation offspring of the decent people who donated a few thousand dollars of land long ago…folks who now see it worth billions.
You have one “pet” General…a Hollywood playboy as a stooge who is supposedly speaking for veterans.
The American Legion says you are wrong, he is wrong.
The ACLU says you are wrong.
Show me the homeless vets and disabled vets who belong to your organization. Thus far, I see insurance executives, movie producers, millionaires all.
In fact, exactly how many of your supporters, how many who live in your neighborhood actually are veterans?
Lets look at the Brentwood School which uses the biggest portion of the property….
What is their program for children of military serving overseas and children of disabled veterans?
What have you done for them?
A contemplative park?
Oh come now. Sleeping ourdoors is the only form of contemplation you wish for veterans, those who have kept you safe and built the country you have managed to do so well in.
g
Dear Publius,
What gift are you talking about that veterans are ingrates about and have lost the support of ‘the families’ ‘who bestowed the gift?
Oh my goodness! Are you kidding? Disabled American combat veterans can’t even sleep on the sidewalk outside ‘this wonderful gift’. Damn, how ungrateful can a bunch of veterans be?
And yeah, these people here represent me and my husband, both American veterans… and I’m sure a whole bunch of other veterans agree and will agree… and that’s what’s concerning you, huh? It should.
I, for one, am grateful that this land was bestowed to American Veterans by two people a long time ago. Some day, veterans may actually get to have and use their land to their benefit to help combat veterans heal from war.
And this stuff about, “the V.A. serves millions”?
I can personally tell you as the wife of a disabled American combat veteran… there is a lot you don’t know about what our wounded warriors have to go through with their injuries and still not get the help that they and their families need from the V.A. to heal.
THE V.A. SPENDS MORE TO KEEP VETERANS FROM GETTING DESERVED BENEFITS THAN THEY DO IN ACTUAL BENEFITS TO VETERANS.
But then, that’s not your problem… is it?
And you really don’t care, do you?
We’re just a bunch of angry ‘maggots’ on the street corner and that’s all.
I for one look forward to the day that I can COME BACK to CALIFORNIA and stand with the other veterans on the street corner down there WITH MY BIG CRAPPY CAMPER!
Look out California! Here I come!
By the way, there are 27,000,000 veterans…
I wonder how many have crappy campers too and would LOVE to come to California this summer to enjoy your company?
Signed, Fran and Jim Lawrence
-American veterans with real names that you consider as ‘maggots’.
In regards to the statement that I made:
“THE V.A. SPENDS MORE TO KEEP VETERANS FROM GETTING DESERVED BENEFITS THAN THEY DO IN ACTUAL BENEFITS TO VETERANS.”
I really don’t know if this is true. Since I like to keep my world based in reality by using facts… I need to recant this statement.
It would be interesting however if there was an honest study, that didn’t use taxpayers and V.A. money, to see what this ratio really is.
-Fran
As far as the statement: “I for one look forward to the day that I can COME BACK to CALIFORNIA and stand with the other veterans on the street corner down there WITH MY BIG CRAPPY CAMPER! :-”
I stand by that. Until then, Robert Rosebrock and all the other veterans that are there standing for what is right… STAND FOR ME AS WELL.
I’m hoping to be there July 4th.
Why The VA Frustrates Veterans
60 Minutes:
Two Wars Are Slowing The Large Bureaucracy, Delaying Benefits
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/01/60minutes/main6045148.shtml?tag=currentVideoInfo;segmentUtilities
“Last year, $30 billion dollars – one third of the VA’s total budget – was paid in disability compensation to nearly three million veterans.”
In regards to the statement that I made: “THE V.A. SPENDS MORE TO KEEP VETERANS FROM GETTING DESERVED BENEFITS THAN THEY DO IN ACTUAL BENEFITS TO VETERANS.”
Reading the full biography of the original Mrs. Baker who died childless in 1912 without ever learning English showed a person of great kindness, discernment and taste.
If only she had children who could speak for her, or grandchildren or even great grandchildren and not “shirt tail relations.”
I am more closely related to the English royal family than those claiming to be descendants are to her…..and I couldn’t talk my way into a paid visit to Windsor Castle, much less pretend to discuss how land within Britain is transferred.
g
Publius writes…………you at VT keep regurgitating your personal point of view but accept no other including the family representative?
The so-called family representatives should be leading the rallies at the corner of Wilshire and San Vicente every Sunday, we’re just waiting for them to admit that the leases, normally granted to “$INFLUENTIAL$” types, violate the terms, conditions, spirit and intent of their Ancestor, Arcadia.
I really dont think you remote editors have a clue about what is actually going on this matter and other stories you post. This lady whom you hold in contempt, speaks for 129 surviving family members who deeded the land in the first place, if their point of view is uncomfortable for you then perhaps you might simply take an objective point of view instead of your ad hominem attacks.
Not all of us are “remote editors” but we do chime in when we feel it necessary. In this case, I feel the need to not only defend my fellow defenders of the “Sacred Trust” but to point out that this small section (above) is the only humane part of your print. You offer perspective without displaying your own contempt, and you suggest an “objective point of view”. Your words read as if you were one of the 129 surviving family members, descendents of the cousins of Arcadia (she had no children of her own). Thank you.
You and your family need to be objective. Fact; the land was a gift for returning Veterans to have a place to be healed. Fact; all of that started to go away after the committee that ran it for years handed it over to the VA. Fact; the “gift” has been whittled away with deals, not transparent to the public, let alone the Veteran community, that insult the intentions of Aunt Arcadia and Senator Jones. Fact; Salvation Army gets about 2 acres (you know about this, the “family” fought to get it back for themselves, not Veterans), develop it as multi-dwelling rentals, charge market rates and fill it with mostly non-Veterans and only have to pay $1 a year! And the list goes on and on until a rent-free 16 acre public park is planned. This is the basis of our objectivity, can you offer something better?
And besides you’re the ones who keep reposting the story to begin with? Rosebrock hangs the flag up side down, some of us resent that, he exempts himself from the rules the rest of us are obliged to conduct ourselves by not hanging banners and signs on the VA fences? He is a fraud and so are you….hey indeed ass. Show respect get respect, show none get none, Hey?
And if they jump off the bridge, you jump off the bridge too? Sad
Hey Pablum:
We have the support of Arcadia de Baker! She gave Veterans this land and we are defending it in her behalf and in her honor for our fellow Veterans, just as she intended. In fact, for the past two years we’ve held the 120th and 121st Anniversary Celebration in hers and Senator Jones’ honor. Where in the hell were you or any of the so-called “family” members.
The so-called “family” even tried to sue in court to take this land away from Veterans and lost big time.
We have over 200,000 Veterans in support of our cause just in California. We also have the California Democratic Party supporting our opposition to the public park and other misuse and abuse of Veterans sacred land. Why is the so-called “family” supporting a public park, public golf course, etc., on this sacred land instead of a Veterans Home?
If you can’t confiscate this land through the courts for personal gain then try and steal it in the name of “honoring our veterans” with a bogus veterans park, and through a “non-profit” organization. You have no shame, no honor … nothing but a lost cause founded upon greed and corruption.
Arcadia de Baker and Senator Jones wouldn’t have anything to do with you and / or the so-called family. These were honorable people who loved America’s Veterans! Stop dragging their good name into your pig-pen.
AMERICAN VETERANS,
CALL TO ARMS TO RESPOND AGAINST THE ASSAULT AGAINST US!
PLEASE COME TO SUNNY CALIFORNIA AND MEET IN FRONT OF THE LOS ANGELES VETERANS PARK! BRING YOUR R.V.s and CAMPERS! THE MORE THE BETTER! BRING YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND BE PREPARED TO STAY AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. THIS IS A CAUSE WORTH FIGHTING FOR. SPEAK UP FOR YOURSELF AND CHILDREN.
SPEAK UP FOR THOSE WHO HAVE STOOD UP FOR YOU!
SAVE THE DATE – JULY 4th, 2003
– LOS ANGELES VETERAN’S PARK
US MILITARY TRIBUTE – FAR AWAY – NICKLEBACK
http://media.causes.com/622166?p_id=96125462
By Fran Lawrence on 2009-12-03 23:15:30
SAVE THE DATE – JULY 4th, 2003 – LOS ANGELES VETERAN’S PARK
Two Thousand Three?
Yes, that would make me 39 years old many times over. thanks, 2010.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PROMISE OF THE PRESIDENT REGARDING CHAPTER 61 MEDICAL RETIREES. ANY IDEA HERE SHIPMATES.