60 Minutes Gets an Honest Answer about Veterans defrauding the U.S. taxpayer!
January 6, 2010 posted by Robert L. Hanafin · 24 Comments
This is a follow-up to Gordon Duff’s special report 60 MINUTES RUNS FLUFF PIECE ON VETERANS WOES
Paul Sullivan posted what I believe to be the heart of the problem with the backlog of VA claims in his response to the ‘stolen valor’ question raised by CBS reporter Bryan Pitts.
http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/index.php/veterans-category-articles/1552-byron-pitts
This video went up on YouTube also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO-jArAuC9w&feature=player_embedded
Veteran’s Activists Paul Sullivan of Veterans for Common Sense (VCS) was on camera when CBS 60 minutes investigative reporter Byron Pitts asked what can be called the Stolen Valor question.
Listen yourselves at what Pitts asked Sulliven – something to the effect of how does the VA balance its responsibility to U.S. taxpayers with its responsiblity to America’s Veterans. [This is an outlandish assumption that most Veterans scam and defraud the U.S. taxpayer - hum!]
Paul’s response was short and to the point. The number of Veterans who scam the VA on a yearly basis could be counted on one hand. That is what we need to say to the NEOCONs of the world who have downplayed PTSD, Agent Orange and will belittle any ailment coming out of the Iraq and Afghansitan wars – on this we Veterans can depend.
Have we not heard this same refrain about responsiblity to U.S. tax payers before from the likes of B.G. Burkett and Dr. Sally Satel?
After Vietnam, ultra-conservative Veterans, and the conservative politicians that they supported, preached that both PTSD and Agent Orange, but especially PTSD, were the basis of fraudulent claims by Veterans to the VA.Hell, they challenged the very existence of PTSD that must have thrilled a Pentagon in much need of cannon fodder for the last days of Vietnam.
Readers that was what over 35 years ago yet that attitude is still going strong or Pitts would never have asked that question. Later, neo-conservatives like Burkett were joined by at lease ONE neo-conservative psychiatrist named Sally Satel.
The main emphasis of the stolen valor argument was that veterans in large numbers were defrauding the American tax payer by faking PTSD. A mental health condition they claimed was easy to fake.
However, the main thrust of Stolen Valor was on attacking FAKE VETERANS period. Yet, it has never been explained to any intelligent person exactly how a fake veteran gets into the VA system be it during Vietnam, after Vietnam, or today. Anyone vaguely familiar with the VA system knows that it is hard enough for a legitimate veteran to get into the VA.
Does the name Sally Satel ring a bell. It should if you are a PTSD advocate or researcher (regardless of your political biases and yes you have them).
She used the stolen valor arguments of B.G. Burkett right up to 2004, if not beyond, to compare young Iraq and Afghanistan Vets with Vietnam Vets when it came to PTSD. This attitude now entrenched within the VA system is why we will forever have a backlog of claims at the VA.
Taking the ultra-conservative American Enterprise Institute (AEI) position she represents (if one doesn’t think professional MDs and Shrinks are non-partisan THINK AGAIN) Dr. Sally asked how does one explain the postwar explosion in Vietnam PTSD cases?
The frequently excuse Sally says is that the start of PTSD can be delayed for months or years. This belief, however, has no support in research studies. And consider the striking absence of delayed cases in long-range studies like that of people affected by the Oklahoma City bombing. Such studies have found that symptoms of PTSD almost always develop within days of the traumatic event and, in about two-thirds of sufferers, fade within a year.
She then goes on to attack the early pioneers of PTSD research using words and logic right out of the much biased and politically partisan Stolen Valor by B.G. Burkett. I used Burkett’s roll of toilet paper not to hack his book but to show and example of how the crap he wrote about in that book still has a conservative following given Sally Satel is still around fighting the PTSD fakers.
Sally says that it is worth noting that the concept of delayed PTSD was introduced in the early 1970′s by a group of psychiatrists led by Robert Jay Lifton, an outspoken opponent of the war. Burkett used the terminology the Lifton and other LIBERALS at the VA collaborated with Vietnam Veterans of American to defraud the American taxpayer on the degree of PTSD. In fact, Burkett went a step further in downplaying both PTSD and Agent Orange.
She notes that these liberal Psychiatrists (remember she is a NEOCON psychiatrist just as there are NEOCON doctors, nurses, and so on). These liberals decided that many former Soldiers suffered what was called post-Vietnam syndrome – marked by "alienation, depression, an inability to concentrate, insomnia, nightmares, restlessness, uprootedness and impatience with almost any job or course of study" – and that this distinguished veterans of Vietnam from those of any other war.
Sally also notes that there was little data to back up the existence of this delayed syndrome, but that PTSD stole a Vietnam Veterans valor. Say what?
It was THE IMAGE of the veteran as a walking time bomb [Rambo] that was a boon to the antiwar movement, which used it as proof that military aggression destroys minds and annihilates souls. Yes, some veterans suffered the crippling anxiety of chronic PTSD. But the broad-brush diagnosis of post-Vietnam syndrome also served political ends. Here she is referring to the conservative MYTH of how THE LIBERALS lost the Vietnam War. Note also that she and other NEOCONs use the broad brush stroke that anyone and everyone who questioned let alone opposed the Vietnam War was a liberal (from media giants such as Walter Kronkite to the mainstream media in general once it stopped selling the war right down to professional medical people who held a diverse political ideology). Today if readers be Libertarians or Independents yet still hold conservative values, she and her kind will still label you a LIBERAL if you question or oppose not only the Vietnam war, but the current wars that she sees as connected and fears THE LIBERALS will once again END and LOSE.
However she also notes there are a couple of other reasons to be skeptical of most troops claiming PTSD. For one, there is an economic incentive to claim suffering. Now more than ever she would agree with Paul Sullivan but for a different reason. The economic melt down is driving more elderly Veterans to the VA with the intention of scamming the government and ripping off the American people. If that were not a fact, once again CBS correspondent Bryan Pitts would not have asked Paul Sullivan about the incidents of Veterans defrauding the VA.
It is the Sally Satel’s and B.G. Burketts of the world, many of them unfortunately Veterans determined to leave their brothers and sisters behind that will make claims like this. Veterans have an economic incentive to file a VA claim regardless if they are disabled or not.
In her own words, Sally says that a "veteran deemed to be fully disabled [100%] by post-traumatic stress disorder can collect $2,000 to $3,000 a month, tax free. More important, perhaps, the syndrome provides a medicalized explanation for many unhappy, but not necessarily traumatized, veterans trying to make sense of their experience.[Frankly the politically biased doctor who has never seen combat nor worked closely with combat veterans experiencing PTSD fails to mention that very few veterans warrant a rating of 100% with PTSD alone. It has to be combined with other ailments]
In talking about the growing number of Vietnam Vets claiming PTSD later in life Dr. Sally notes that it is in your imagination. She claims that psychological studies have shown that Vietnam Vets tend to reconstruct the past in terms of the present – Vets often exaggerate the degree of earlier misfortune if they are feeling bad, or minimize old troubles if they are feeling good.
Some of the Vets interviewed by 60 minutes, and quite a few Vietnam Vets not interviewed would either find it impossible to prove a combat connection (even if combat stress were the major trigger of PTSD since the triggers vary as much as individual personalities).
However, her kind are proponents of denying VA claims unless there is a clear link to combat trauma.
THIS IS WHY I BELIEVE THAT IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOUNGER MORE ENERGIZED VETERANS ADVOCATES TO TAKE THE VA HEAD ON IN THIS EXCUSE TO DELAY, DENY, UNTIL WE DIE ATTITUDE THAT REMAINS ENTRENCHED AT THE VA REGARDLESS WHAT VA TALKING DOGS HAVE TO TELL MAINSTREAM MEDIA!!!
Don’t take my word for it, listen to Dr. Sally, "it is vital that researchers corroborate the battlefield events that veterans cite as causes of their PTSD. Unfortunately, researchers on the 1990 PTSD readjustment study did not do the archival legwork to verify the trauma that the veterans reported. Until a better study is done, the "facts" on post-Vietnam PTSD are simply speculation.
CONNECTING THE DOTS BETWEEN VIETNAM, IRAQ, AND AFGHANISTAN
Dr. Sally (though she does not work within the VA thank God, she once did) and others still entrenched within the VA have this attitude not only about Vietnam Vets but also younger Veterans that they view as WEAK as LIBERALS.
They promote the view that "some soldiers will return from Iraq and Afghanistan with severe psychological problems, and we must do everything in our power to help them. The vast majority, however, will be able to adjust on their own – and imposing on them the questionable legacy of Vietnam won’t do them any service. As the British psychiatrist Simon Wessely has put it: "Generals are justly criticized for fighting the last war, not the present one. Psychiatrists should be aware of the same mistake."
THAT READERS (VIETNAM ERA VETS OR YOUNGER VETS) IS THE BOTTOM LINE ABOUT WHAT REALLY IS THE ROOT OF THE BACKLOG OF VA CLAIMS. EVEN IF DR. SALLY IS ONTO SOMETHING AND SHE AND B.G. BURKETT ARE FULL OF IT, THE ATTITUDE ALONE WOULD STILL HOLD UP OTHER VA CLAIMS THAT ARE NOT RELATED TO PTSD!
Robert L. Hanafin
Major, U.S. Air Force-Retired
Libertarian (Liberal, conservative, you name it)
PS: I got my 100% by knowing how to defeat the Satels and Burkett’s of the world and shake my fist at their kind should they try taking my VA benefits away from me. I earned them!!! She never will, and Burkett degrades what we’ve earned in the name of Stolen Valor!!!
You’re bad to the bone, Sir.
I’m a recent Marine Corps veteran who now works for a major veterans service organization. I read B.G. Burkett’s Stolen Valor book and can report he is 100% on the money about Stolen Valor. However, he should have stopped there. He’s absolutely wrong about Agent Orange and PTSD. His “research” is laughable. I’ve also spoken to him and firmly believe he’s bat shit crazy. At any rate, I can report first hand that PTSD and its effects on today’s veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan are very real. BTW, Maj. Hanafin, you should really address veterans issues from an apolitical perspective. You sound about as nutty at Burkett. Also, isn’t there an editor anywhere on this site? Your writing needs help. At least try running spell check and rereading your work. I thought Airmen had edjucashuns.
OOOOOOOORRRRRAAAAAAHHHHHH
Are you kidding? Fraud in the VA claims process is rampant. This story just ran today:
http://www.roanoke.com/news/breaking/wb/232074
And this is just one of many dirtbags bringing dishonor on themselves and the service by lying about their service to scam dollars out of the government. Check out all the phonies at http://www.pownetwork.org.
Seriously, do your homework, Major.
"Fraud in the VA claims process is rampant. And this is just one of many dirtbags bringing dishonor on themselves and the service by lying about their service to scam dollars out of the government."
Nope Ryan (or Big D.) you and far too many others holding up the backlog at the VA are going to have to do a lot better than one, two, three, or even 14 fraudulent VA claims to PROVE there are many dirtbags lying about their service to scam dollars out of the government.
At least that is what the Department of Veterans Affairs has consistently reported during both the Bush and Obama administrations.
Yes, the VA is vulnerable to fraudulent claims, but is the problem of the scale you want to believe it is? Not according to the VA Inspector General.
For example using you logic a misleading Media Headline out of Kentucky in July 2009 by the Washington Post called Probe Finds VA Vulnerable to Fraud the reporter used only one investigation at a regional office in KY to make such an outlandish claim.
An investigation in the wake of a major fraud case involving the Department of Veterans Affairs regional office in Louisville has found that other VA offices around the country suffer security shortfalls that leave them vulnerable to the same type of alleged fraud. However, the review by the Department of Veterans Affairs Office of Inspector General found no similar allegations of fraud, but its report warns that gaps in VA’s internal controls mean that "opportunities exist . . . to generate fraudulent large benefits payments."
Yes there is fraud within the VA system, but Ryan you will find more significant fraud being done by VA employees such as construction contracts, and even claims processing than you will find among Veterans submitting claims. Even this case highlights that fraud that was committed by Veterans in Kentucky could not have been made possible without the inside help of a VA employee.
The government accused Jeffrey Allan McGill, a former veteran service representative at the Louisville VA office, of working with co-conspirators, including 11 veterans, to submit fraudulent claims for military-related disabilities.
Using your logic Ryan are we to assume that every Veteran Service Representative or VSO is like Jeffrey A. McGill, we don’t quite think so, nor should the vast majority of Vets filing claims even for PTSD be considered as scam artists.
McGill and co-defendant Daniel Ryan Parker, a former officer with the Disabled American Veterans service organization, are accused of falsifying documents to ensure that those claims were approved.
Again, Ryan using your logic are we to assume that every officer with the Disabled American Veterans VSO is like Daniel R. Parker, we don’t think so.
More to the point, alarmed by the allegations, VA’s inspector general began an investigation in May 2008, six months before the indictments. Investigators visited three VA regional offices (VAROs) that had issued an abnormally high number of large retroactive payments to veterans, which adjust amounts paid earlier and are considered particularly susceptible to fraud.
Investigators reviewed the files for 690 large retroactive payments made by the offices in Huntington, W.Va.; San Juan, Puerto Rico; and Los Angeles between 2005 and 2008 but found no fraud.
"These results mean we can say with 90 percent confidence that this particular type of fraud is unlikely to be occurring at the VAROs selected for review during the sampled period," said the IG report, which was released June 30.
But the investigation found that the Veterans Benefits Administration, which oversees benefits and services for VA, failed to provide enough guidance to regional offices on how to maintain accountability over its official date stamps, which could be used to falsify documents.
That Ryan is a VA management problem not an excuse to cop an attitude that most Veterans filing claims for PTSD are malingerers.
In its response to the IG report, VA said it has already issued instructions to regional offices on how to keep track of the date stamps.
VA adopted previous reforms after a scandal in 2001 in which employees at the Atlanta regional office generated about $11 million in fraudulent compensation claims.
Again Ryan this involved VA employees at the Regional office not Veteran filing false claims. Meaning those employees went to jail for pocketing kickbacks on those claims.
In response, VA began reviewing all retroactive payments of $25,000 or more. But that review was not designed to detect fraud based on altered documents, according to the IG report.
The report recommends that VA examine medical records before making large retroactive payments. "We believe that VBA will continue to be vulnerable to fraud-related activities concerning large retroactive payments if controls over the retroactive payment and review process are not improved," the report says.
The VA has adopted new procedures that will ensure that medical records are validated for authenticity.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/08/AR2009070804055.html [www.washingtonpost.com]
Is there fraud on a broader scale that does not involve Veterans well of course, but not how few Stolen Valor cases there have been in comparison.
During the current VA/OIG report to Congress ending September 2009, the OIG opened 219 investigations regarding deceased payee cases, fiduciary fraud, identity theft, and Veterans/widows fraudulently receiving VA compensation and pension funds. Eighty-two defendants were charged with crimes and court ordered payment of fines, restitution, and penalties amounted to $1,761,789. These investigations include 8 “Stolen Valor” cases resulting in 7 defendants being charged and $314,284 in court ordered payment of fines, restitution, and penalties.
That is what Paul Sullivan means when he says we can count the number of Veterans commiting fraud against the government on two hands.
http://www4.va.gov/oig/pubs/VAOIG-SAR-2009-2.pdf [www4.va.gov]
If you really want to talk about the scumbags who bring dishonor and disgrace to America’s Veterans lets talk about the VA employees with your attitude who shredded Veteran legitimate VA claims in what has become known as Shreddergate.
In comparison to the 7 Stolen Valor cases leading to recovery of $314,284, the VA/OIG investigated allegations of bribery and kickbacks to VA officials, bid rigging and antitrust violations in VA contracts, false claims for construction or pharmicuticals submitted by VA contractors, and other fraud relating to VA procurement activities.
In the area of procurement practices, OIG opened 16 cases, made 7 arrests, and had $1,206,624,682 in fines, restitution, penalties, and civil judgments as well as savings, efficiencies, cost avoidance, and recoveries.
OIG also investigated theft of IT equipment or data, network intrusions, identity theft, and child pornography. In the area of information management crimes, OIG opened 4 cases, made 4 arrests,and had $22,158 in fines, restitution, penalties, and civil judgments as well as savings, effi ciencies, cost avoidance, and recoveries.
Let’s not forget the pharmaceutical companies who contribute big time to both political parties.
Pharmaceutical Manufacturer Settles with Government
A major pharmaceutical manufacturer and its subsidiary have agreed to pay $2.3 billion, the largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice, to resolve criminal and civil liability arising from the illegal promotion of certain pharmaceutical products. The subsidiary has agreed to plead guilty to a felony violation of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act for misbranding a drugwith the intent to defraud or mislead. A joint investigation was conducted by OIG, FBI, Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) OIG, Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Office of Criminal Investigations, DCIS, and U.S. Postal Service (USPS) OIG. The investigation determined that the company promoted the sale of the drug for several uses and dosages that the FDA specifi cally declined to approve due to safety concerns. The company will pay a criminal fine of $1.195 billion, the largest criminal fine ever imposed in the United States. The subsidiary will also forfeit $105 million for a total criminal resolution of $1.3 billion.
http://www4.va.gov/oig/pubs/VAOIG-SAR-2009-2.pdf [www4.va.gov]
Ok, Ryan now who do you say is really defrauding the American tax payer, corporate America or America’s Veterans?
I may not be able to spell worth a damn but I can surpass you or anyother right-wing nut in doing my homework.
Bobby Hanafin
The Mustang Major
Are you kidding?! Fraud is rampant at in the VA claims process. This story just ran today and is just one example of many: http://www.roanoke.com/news/breaking/wb/232074
Check out all the phonies at http://www.pownetwork.org.
Fraud is a SERIOUS issue at VA. Just do a Google news search for VA fraud and you’ll see all the recent cases. Do your homework, Major.
Ryan, Fraud is not a reason to deny deserving veterans of benefits they have earned and deserve. Fraud happens, get over it. The general public, employees, even elected officials can commit fraud.
Do some Veterans file false claims?
YES!
Is living off of SSDI and a VA Compensation, the easy way to being rich and having all of life’s pleasures and bobbles at ones own disposal?
NO!
From most Veterans I’ve spoken with, who are collecting VA Compensation Bennies, their experiences very much mirror my own.
I first filed in 1986 and was denied, and again in 1989 and was denied yet again. In 1990, another Veteran gave me some valuable information, that no one within the VA would ever voluntarily pass along.
He stated:
“The corridors and passageways of the VA are un-navigable waters, and the Veteran is doomed to run aground and sink when they try filing on their own. You need someone who navigates these uncharted VA waters every day. Go to the DAV or any other Service Organization, and give your power of attorney to an NSO. Although I’d try the DAV first, as they’ve always seemed less politically motivated than either the Legion or VFW.”
I went directly to the DAV in Boston and did just that. It eventually took another 13 months before I finally got my hearing, and my DAV NSO in Boston was present, and while he could not offer direct testimony, he did ask me several leading questions, allowing me to better explain my case to the VA’s hearing officer. Six months later I received my decision and 50% Service Connected decision, and another five months before I received my first retroactive check.
This 50% rating was raised to 70% then dropped to 30%, and following the advice of my NSO, I kept on appealing my claim. In 2000 I filed for unemployability, my claim was reviewed and I received a rating of 90% Service Connected and 10% unemployablity for 100% P.& T..
After a hip replacement in 2001 and a shoulder replacement in 2005, I filed for my twelve month home care allowance. My 2005 request went unanswered for seven months. I wrote a letter to my regional VA office and asked where in the hell my allowance was, as these conditions were part and parcel directly related to my original claim, caused by the medication I’d been prescribed in heavy dosages,”PREDNISONE.”
The end of November 2005, I received a rather startling reply from the VA, stating they had found “Clear and Unmistakable errors in my claim, and from that point on, I have been rated as 100% Permanently and Totally Service Connected Disabled. ONLY because of information and questions provided by my original DAV NSO back in 1991.
That’s a grand total of NINETEEN YEARS of living life on the margin, building up one helluva mountain of debt, before finally receiving the compensation I should have been receiving since I first filed in 1986. Fifteen years after I gave my DAV NSO power of attorney to persue my claim.
If that’s living “High off the Hog,” then I’m the Goddamn Senior U.S. Senator from Massachusetts. EASY LIVING? BULLSHIT! I’m still paying down my mountain of built up debt.
However, whether it be 19 or 15 years of up and down, back and forth appeals is sure to washout any false claims. WHY? Living hand to mouth day by day and constantly in debt, the veterans with false claims, for the most part, see that it’s a life of deprivation and anguish, and basically drop off the face of the earth as far as their VA claims go, and give up on the process entirely.
While those whose claims are legitimate hang on and stay the coarse to its bitter end.
As for getting rich while on the Government Dole? It’s all pure 100% unadulterated grade A BULLSHIT!
Marc K.
US Navy/ US Army Retired/Disabled
Thank you sir. I appreciated your post. I am a 70% disabled veteran that waited almost 9 years to get the initial decision on my case. Of course it was great receiving that back pay. In their decision, they started me at 100% and then downgraded it to 70%. I’m at the tail end of trying to get IU or get it back to 100%. But all that time, I was getting SSDI for the same condition. Yes, it’s not easy to see this out, but like you’ve said it is well worth it. Your comments hit home for me and I salute you sir. Thank you.
"I’m a recent Marine Corps veteran who now works for a major veterans service organization."
You say that you are a recent Marine vet who now works for a major VSO. A few Veterans Today Editors and Writers prefer that commentators and respondents use their real name, but I can live with handles. Big D, or is it Ryan which is it?
AND there is no need to double post, your points are clear.
However when did you get out of the Marines and which VSO do you work for? My assumption is you work for AMVETS that is pushing its Stolen Valor Website? More power to you folks.
Are we to interpret your working for a major VSO to mean that Veterans for Common Sense (VCS) is not mainstream enough for you?
"I read B.G. Burkett’s Stolen Valor book and can report he is 100% on the money about Stolen Valor. However, he should have stopped there."
EXACTLY, he should have stopped with wannabes, however you are wrong in that Burkett is 100% on the money about Stolen Valor. Note that Burkett and his kind are NOT apolitical at all about who they go after (wink). When it comes to his partisan neo-conservative attack and focus on wannabe Veterans, they may or may not have been wannabes, but his "research" into wannabes is laughable.
Now I know that both my attacks on Stolen Valor and the partisan conservative approach used to exploit it are going to earn my military service a background review by the Stolen Valor police not because I filed a false VA Claim or claimed the Medal of Honor or Purple Heart and did not earn it, but because I question the political motivation, and bias of those who push Stolen Valor. Frankly, I place Stolen Valor in the same bullshit category as the friggin Flag Amendment that you clowns place more time, money, and effort on than fixing the backlog of claims at the VA.
"He’s absolutely wrong about Agent Orange and PTSD. His "research" is laughable."
For a recent Marine, your focus on Agent Orange and PTSD is admirable but Agent Orange is not the signature wound of 21st century wars, PTSD and TBI are.
"I’ve also spoken to him and firmly believe he’s bat shit crazy."
Well I’ve seen him speak but not spoken with him, I wouldn’t waste my time, but I wouldn’t go as far as to say he is or was bat shit crazy, Burkett and his kind know EXACTLY what they are doing, are good at it, character assassination politically motivated and prodomently on behalf of the Republican Party.
"At any rate, I can report first hand that PTSD and its effects on today’s veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan are very real."
That is one thing we can agree on Ryan or Big D whoever you are.
"BTW, Maj. Hanafin, you should really address veterans issues from an apolitical perspective."
Nope, as a representative of a major VSO be it the American Legion, VFW, AMVETS or any of the other nationalistic flag amendment organizations you of all people should know that VETERANS ISSUES ARE POLITICAL ISSUES.
If VSO representatives do not treat Veterans Issues as political issues, we will never fix the back log of VA claims even if we do get the Flag Amendment passed through Congress, and expose everyone who files a claims with the VA as Frauds and wannabes. My God man just go to any American Legion or VFW club and listen to the war stories being told around the bar and bingo tables if we want to find wannabes, the only difference is they do not make money on their lies nor file false VA claims. The vast majority of Veterans filing claims with the VA are legitimate AND I have to strongly disagree with you that fraud is not rampant in the VA system or who’s fault is that – the Department of Veterans Affairs.
Are you telling us that the VA is not doing its job of screening out fake Veterans from real Veterans, bullshit, I worked for the VA for 4 years from 1973 to 1978 while in the Army Reserve after Vietnam. We closely scrutinized and monitored DD-214s, and it was just as hard for Vets to get into the sytem then as it is NOW. We never made more of the fake Veteran syndrome that has been blown way out of proportion to the number of real Vets filing VA claims today.
With an attitude like yours, your mainstream VSO is not going to get the backlog of VA Claims fixed, because YOU are part of the problems.
"You sound about as nutty at Burkett."
Well I’m bold and bad to the bone, but no one is as deceitful as B.G. Burkett. Where exactly in my mis-spelled article do I sould nutty to you? Which part or all of it?
"Also, isn’t there an editor anywhere on this site? Your writing needs help. At least try running spell check and rereading your work. I thought Airmen had edjucashuns."
Got me on that one Ryan, Big D, or whoever the hell you are. Cut me some slack, the Army only gave me a rubber stamped high school GED during Nam, I fooled them and Project 100,000 (Google it), for I was smarter than they thought I was even if I still can’t spell, I earned both a BA and a Masters degree or I would never have made Major in the Air Force. Yes I am edjucated, maybe not as much as you but at least I’m proud to use my real name on what I say or put on paper even if the Stolen Valor and Flag police come after me. What a joke!
BTW, there is a TV ad being run by the right-wing complaining about the national debt created by Neo-Cons over the past decade. It disgustingly depicts a group of elementary school children saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the National Debt. How come you Flag police are not all over that commercialization of patriotism?
Bobby Hanafin
The Mustang Major
Who are you? Which nationalistic VSO do your represent" The Legion, VFW, AMVETS?
“Who are you? Which nationalistic VSO do your represent” The Legion, VFW, AMVETS?”
good take down…..the fact the guy cant ID what outfit he works for is interesting….i think the whole purpose was the line about removing politics…..what a frigging moron.
I am the widow of a Vietnam veteran. The nerve of some people!! My husband suffered from PTSD. We were married 27 years before he died in 2005. I don’t believe that Sally Satel knows what she is talking about. Live with a Vietnam veteran suffering from PTSD for 27 years; then you might get a real education. Until then all she & her colleagues have to say amounts to a bunch of dribble.
It’s easy to criticize a part of our population (Vietnam vets) that has been discredited by our government & their fellow countrymen, many suffering from PTSD, forced into seclusion because nobody wanted to hear what they had to say, and then were sick from exposure to agent orange which was denied for many, many years and now they are dying and/or have died.
Upstanding Sally, really, to target Vietnam vets, as you do, will probably further your career.
If you are the child of a Vietnam veteran, and you are ill and think your parent(s) service and exposure to agent orange might be the cause join us
http://www.agentorangelegacy.us or visit our support community http://www.agentorangelegacy.ning.com
Sharon L. Perry
Agent Orange Legacy
Children of Vietnam Veterans
Thanks for your post Sharon, and we at Veterans Today in conjunction with forward looking Veterans and Military Family advocates stand by you and people who think like you.
As some will say, there is and remains attempts to defraud the federal government and U.S. taxpayer out of a few meager VA claims, but a Paul Sullivan of Veterans for Common Sense (VCS) and you can confirm such attempt to defraud the VA in annual reports from the VA Inspector General can be counted on one hand.
They are extremely insignificant compared to the number of legitimate VA Claims filed each day, each week, and each year.
I will in fact be posting links to VA reports that prove that the number of fraudulent VA claims is insignificant to overall claims filed into VA Regional offices nationwide.
Claims by Veterans like Ryan and Big D that fraud is rampant within the VA system make good mainstream media instigation and right-wing revisionist history fodder, but just are not true!!!
We at Veterans Today also stand by what Paul Sullivan said in the video above, fraud committed by America’s Veterans against the VA system IS NOT rampant. It happens yes, but is it insignificant and the VA under both G.W. Bush and B. Obama confirms that yes the VA has been vulnerable to fraud even by Claim adjudicators inside the VA, but fraudulent VA claims by Veterans is not a rampant problem as Ryan or Big D would have us believe.
We will ensure links to your effort are not dead links Sharon.
If you are the child of a Vietnam veteran, and you are ill and think your parent(s) service and exposure to agent orange might be the cause join us
http://www.agentorangelegacy.us [www.agentorangelegacy.us] or visit our support community http://www.agentorangelegacy.ning.com [www.agentorangelegacy.ning.com ]
Sharon L. Perry Agent Orange Legacy Children of Vietnam Veterans
Robert L. Hanafin
Major, U.S. Air Force-Retired
One Navy veteran’s organization asserts on it’s Internet site that it’s statistics indicate that the average age at death of Vietnam veterans is between 64 and 65 years of age while the average age of death of American males is about 76 years of age.
There are other studies which contradict this assertion, however, while stating there is no significant difference in the mortality (death) rate between Vietnam veterans and other American men.
If the assertion in question, by the Navy veterans organization, is correct, then Vietnam veterans average premature demise must be attributed to exposure to toxic elements ( like Agent Orange) in Vietnam which resulted in highly significant adverse affects both on their mortality (death rate) and morbidity (rate of illness).
C.V.,
Was that a Navy Retirees organization or Navy vet organization you are referring to?
Regardless, what you say is more accurate than any of us who served during or in Vietnam want to know.
Not only do Vietnam Vets, especially those in-country or exposed to Agent Orange off shore while loading the poison ship board or in Air Force base in Thailand or whereever, die earlier than men and women in the general population of the same age group(s), but they age quickly in appearance.
POINT: If the Stolen Valor and Flag police really want to track down wannabe combat Veterans of the Vietnam war period hell that doesn’t take rocket science. All they need to do is get photos of the so-called hero. If he or she looks a decade or more older than Veterans who have not been exposed to combat zones or combat chances are they may be a wannabe.
I’ve gone to meetings with Vets who no shit served in Nam, and they did not necessarily have to have experienced combat. I went in the Army at 17 under Project 100,000 the dummy corps in 1969. I consider myself at least a decade younger than the earlier generation who went into Vietnam in the early sixties. When I met some of these gents at least 25 to 30 years after the war they looked old enought to be my grand-father. I staid in the Volunteer Armed Forces where weight standards and physical abilities were consistantly monitored and emphasized. I believe that the life style in the All Volunteer Force keeps even Vietnam vets looking younger than our compeers.
I still look at least 20 years younger than most Vietnam Veterans my age.
Bobby Hanafin
The Mustang Major
"If he or she looks a decade or more older than Veterans who have not been exposed to combat zones or combat chances are they may be a wannabe."
I meant to say, "If he or she looks a decade or more younger than Veterans who have not been exposed to combat zones or combat chances are they may be a wannabe."
Bobby Hanafin
This lady is a Moron.
“I am the widow of a Vietnam veteran.”
This lady is a Moron, Mortar Man.
Way to go Mortar Man, not only is Sharon not a moron you imbecile, but at least she has a real name.
Calling her a moron only makes what she says worth reading even more.
See this same anti-Vet Stolen Valor attitude spills over to attack not only Veterans seeking treatment at the VA but also their spouses and children.
You need to say something more intelligent and dignified than showing how dumb you are Mortar Man.
Challenge what the widow said Mort her message how frigging manly of you or anyone else to attack the woman. How many did you rape as you pillaged.
Belittle military widows and you deserve the Stolen Valor and Flag police coming after you military service dimwit!
Mustang Man
MOST veterans don’t scam the VA but many do. Just read the news. I have been advised to claim disability for a condition I KNOW isn’t really service connected but I don’t because I have a conscience. I know others who aren’t as honest and are getting their VA money. The solution isn’t to make the process slower for everyone though. The VA should process disability claims the way the IRS processes tax returns. Screen for obvious red flags but approve nearly all then go back and audit later and nail the fraudsters with stiff fines or jail time. Watch the backlog clear right up.
"I have been advised to claim disability for a condition I KNOW isn’t really service connected but I don’t because I have a conscience. I know others who aren’t as honest and are getting their VA money. The solution isn’t to make the process slower for everyone though."
Randy,
Without really telling us, you know who advised you to do this. Was it a VA Employee, a Veterans Service Officer (VSO), a VSO representative, or a shit house lawyer?
Point: Once again you are someone pointing to VERY FEW news media articles and your own experience to make the case that MANY VETERANS SCAM THE VA SYSTEM while in the same breath you same most do not. Which is it?
Regardless, and once again without even having to make the response public, only you know who advised you to do this. If a VA employee report them to the VA/OIG their Hotline is online, if a Veterans Service Officer report them to whatever VSO they represent, or the country they work for, if a shit house lawyer then you should be listening to their advise anyway.
Randy you say "The VA should process disability claims the way the IRS processes tax returns. Screen for obvious red flags but approve nearly all then go back and audit later and nail the fraudsters with stiff fines or jail time. Watch the backlog clear right up"
Exactly what would the RED FLAGS for a VA Claim be Randy?
Beyond the advise to file a claim for something you know YOU personally were not service-connected for have you EVER filed a VA Claim? If you did than you would know that the VA already uses RED FLAGS to alert adjudicators of false claims. The very attitude within the VA system has been something that you evidently may appreciate. An attitude that every Veteran that files a VA claim is out to scam the government. It is an anti-Veteran attitude except to those Veterans who hold such an anti-Veteran attitude even if you do not work for the VA.
STOLEN VALOR CASES ARE EVEN FEWER IN NUMBER – RANDY
Is there fraud on a broader scale that does not involve Veterans well of course, but Randy note how few Stolen Valor cases there have been in comparison.
Randy, FYI, since passage of the Stolen Valor Act by Congress, the VA does prosecute anyone filing a claim that falls under the Act.
During the most current VA/OIG report to Congress ending September 2009, the OIG opened 219 investigations regarding deceased payee cases, fiduciary fraud, identity theft, and Veterans/widows fraudulently receiving VA compensation and pension funds. Eighty-two defendants were charged with crimes and court ordered payment of fines, restitution, and penalties amounted to $1,761,789.
However, these investigations ONLY included 8 "Stolen Valor" cases resulting in 7 defendants being charged and $314,284 in court ordered payment of fines, restitution, and penalties.
8 people, claiming making stolen valor claims for combat injuries, or service-connected disabilities they lied about. Randy. Do you know how many Veterans use the VA, and how many file claims each year. Look it up, but out of about 22 million Veteran (a decrease from 26 million due to attrition of the eldest and Vietnam Vets due to Agent Orange).
Don’t know about you Randy, but WE would call 8 very few Stolen Valor cases that sorta, kinda places the Stolen Valor Act in the same catagory as the Flag Amendment – BULLSHIT!!!
That is what Paul Sullivan means when he says we can count the number of Veterans commiting fraud against the government on two hands.
http://www4.va.gov/oig/pubs/VAOIG-SAR-2009-2.pdf [www4.va.gov]
If you really want to talk about the scumbags who bring dishonor and disgrace to America’s Veterans lets talk about the VA employees with an anti-Veteran attitude who shredded Veterans legitimate VA claims in what has become known as Shreddergate.
In comparison to the 8 Stolen Valor cases leading to recovery of $314,284, the VA/OIG investigated allegations of bribery and kickbacks to VA officials, bid rigging and antitrust violations in VA contracts, false claims for construction or pharmicuticals submitted by VA contractors, and other fraud relating to VA procurement activities. In the area of procurement practices, OIG opened 16 cases, made 7 arrests, and had $1,206,624,682 in fines, restitution, penalties, and civil judgments as well as savings, efficiencies, cost avoidance, and recoveries.
Randy compare a tax payer return of $1,206,624,682 from corporations scaming the American tax payer to a return of $314,284 bucks from people fraudulently claiming to be Disabled Veterans and what does that tell YOU?
The VA/OIG also investigated theft of IT equipment or data, network intrusions, identity theft, and child pornography. In the area of information management crimes, OIG opened 4 cases, made 4 arrests,and had $22,158 in fines, restitution, penalties, and civil judgments as well as savings, effi ciencies, cost avoidance, and recoveries. Randy, this was the only catagory of fraud against American Tax payers that was lower than Stolen Valor cases. However, let’s not forget the pharmaceutical companies who contribute big time to both political parties and fight hardest against healthcare reform.
Pharmaceutical Manufacturer Settles with Government
A major pharmaceutical manufacturer (not named but we can find out who) and its subsidiary have agreed to pay $2.3 billion, back to the American tax payer. The largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice, to resolve criminal and civil liability arising from the illegal promotion of certain pharmaceutical products. The subsidiary has agreed to plead guilty to a felony violation of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act for misbranding a drug with the intent to defraud or mislead.
A joint investigation was conducted by the VA/OIG, FBI, Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) OIG, Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Office of Criminal Investigations, DCIS, and U.S. Postal Service (USPS) OIG. The investigation determined that the company promoted the sale of the drug for several uses and dosages that the FDA specifically declined to approve due to safety concerns.
The company will pay a criminal fine of $1.195 billion, the largest criminal fine ever imposed in the United States. The subsidiary will also forfeit $105 million for a total criminal resolution of $1.3 billion.
http://www4.va.gov/oig/pubs/VAOIG-SAR-2009-2.pdf [www4.va.gov]
Ok, Randy now who do you say is really defrauding the American tax payer, corporate America or America’s Veterans?
I may be wrong, but I believe that this investigation against the drug company was in all fairness, balance, and to their credit, done on President Bush’s shift when Republicans controlled the VA.
That’s about as non-partisan a response that I can give.
Bobby Hanafin
The Mustang Major
"MOST veterans don’t scam the VA but many do. Just read the news."
Same as we told Ryan, I believe it would be more accurate to say, "MOST Veterans do not scam the VA but a FEW do." Randy.
The VA Inspector General’s own reports to Congress (the House and Senate Veterans Affairs committees) confirms that a FEW not MANY Veterans do scam the VA system.
I dont’ think anyone is saying that no Vet or more to the point VA employee scams the VA.
Now unlike Ryan (or Big D.) I don’t believe you to be among the far too many others holding up the backlog at the VA.
However, Randy, you like Ryan are going to have to do a lot better than one, two, three, or even 11 fraudulent VA claims a year to PROVE there are many dirtbags lying about their service to scam dollars out of the government.
At least that is what the Department of Veterans Affairs has consistently reported during both the Bush and Obama administrations.
Yes, the VA is vulnerable to fraudulent claims, but is the problem of the scale you say it is when you use the word MANY Veterans scam the VA? Not according to the VA Inspector General across two administrations – Republican and Democrat.
For example using your logic Randy a misleading Media Headline out of Kentucky in July 2009 by the Washington Post called Probe Finds VA Vulnerable to Fraud the reporter used only one investigation at a regional office in KY to make such an outlandish claim that Many Veterans Scam the VA.
An investigation in the wake of a major fraud case involving the Department of Veterans Affairs regional office in Louisville has found that other VA offices around the country suffer security shortfalls that leave them vulnerable to the same type of alleged fraud. However, the review by the Department of Veterans Affairs Office of Inspector General found no similar allegations of fraud, but its report warns that gaps in VA’s internal controls mean that "opportunities exist . . . to generate fraudulent large benefits payments."
This Randy is what I mean by even the FEW Veterans who do scam the VA can’t do so without VA employee assistance. VA Claims examiners have to cooperate in the scam for it to be successful. That means that as these scumbags help a FEW Vets scam the system, they are screwing the vast majoirty with legitimate claims.
Yes there is fraud within the VA system, but Randy HOWEVER you will find more significant fraud being done by VA employees such as VA managers handling construction contracts, and even claims processing than you will find among Veterans submitting claims. Even this above case highlights that fraud that was committed by Veterans in Kentucky could not have been possible without the inside help of a VA employee.
The government accused Jeffrey Allan McGill, a former veteran service representative at the Louisville VA office, of working with co-conspirators, including 11 veterans, to submit fraudulent claims for military-related disabilities.
Are we to assume that every Veteran Service Representative or VSO is like Jeffrey A. McGill, Randy? We don’t quite think so, nor should the vast majority of Vets filing claims, even for PTSD, be considered as scam artists.
You want to hear about scam artists tell you what I’m preparing a story now on how the Air Force is cracking down on Airmen trying to scam their way out of deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. That said I would NEVER say that every Airmen or Sailor vulnerable for deployment to Iraq or Afghansitan is trying to get out of it!!!
Anyway VSO McGill and co-defendant Daniel Ryan Parker, a former officer with the Disabled American Veterans service organization, are accused of falsifying documents to ensure that those claims were approved.
Are we to assume that every officer with the Disabled American Veterans, American Legion, or VFW, hell any VSO is like Daniel R. Parker, we don’t think so. It is more accurate to say that a FEW VSOs or Service Officers are scumbags – VERY FEW!!!
More to the point, alarmed by the allegations, the VA’s inspector general began an investigation in May 2008, six months before the indictments. Investigators visited three VA regional offices (VAROs) that had issued an abnormally high number of large retroactive payments to veterans, which adjust amounts paid earlier and are considered particularly susceptible to fraud.
Investigators reviewed the files for 690 large retroactive payments made by the offices in Huntington, W.Va.; San Juan, Puerto Rico; and Los Angeles between 2005 and 2008 but found no fraud.
Randy that was on the Republican’s shift when Republicans held top positions at the VA. Nothing has changed in this area since then. You and others can of course contact the VA/OIG and request an audit or investigation of your regional office or hospital if you suspect fraud. You are at liberty to do this anytime.
"These results mean we can say with 90 percent confidence that this particular type of fraud is unlikely to be occurring at the VAROs selected for review during the sampled period," said the IG report, which was released June 30.
Ok, now 90% is not 100% Randy, but it does means that FEW Veterans are attempting to scam the VA system, and even fewer are getting away with it. More on that below.
But the investigation found that the Veterans Benefits Administration, which oversees benefits and services for the VA, failed to provide enough guidance to regional offices on how to maintain accountability over its official date stamps, which could be used to falsify documents.
That Randy is a VA management problem not an excuse to cop an anti-Veteran attitude that most Veterans filing claims for PTSD or anything else are malingerers.
I worked for the Justice Department for two years adjudicating claims for U.S. citizenship. We also used date stamps, approval and disapproval stames, however the date stamps had nothing to do with vulnerability in approving or disapproving our case load. Hell, I worked in Fresno, CA, so Bro my case load was very heavy. Now you wanna talk about massive fraud – boom the Immigration Service or whatever it is called under Homeland Security now.
In VA management’s response to the IG report, VA said it has already issued instructions to regional offices on how to keep track of the date stamps. Once again how date stamps related to vulnerability to scam the VA system is not clear at all???
Regardless, VA adopted previous reforms after a scandal in 2001 in which employees at the Atlanta regional office generated about $11 million in fraudulent compensation claims.
Again Randy this involved VA employees at the Regional office not Veterans filing false claims. Meaning those employees went to jail for pocketing kickbacks on those claims or pocketing money on claims of Vets who did not exist. This too was when Republicans ran the VA.
In response, VA began reviewing all retroactive payments of $25,000 or more. But that review was not designed to detect fraud based on altered documents, according to the IG report.
The report recommends that VA examine medical records before making large retroactive payments. "We believe that VBA will continue to be vulnerable to fraud-related activities concerning large retroactive payments if controls over the retroactive payment and review process are not improved," the report says.
The VA has adopted new procedures that will ensure that medical records are validated for authenticity.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/08/AR2009070804055.html [www.washingtonpost.com] [www.washingtonpost.com]
Bobby Hanafin
The Mustang Major
Most fraud and lies come from the VA against the veteran. Such things as the Va using records of other veterans to deny your rightfull claim. I should know I found that the Va had ujsed 5 other veterans records that were in my C file against me. It took me 30 years and 23 years to get them to corect these mistakes, it only cost me my nhealth, both phyical and mental.
The Va is usually the real enemy and not veterans.
i would say that in comparison to everyone else in the va system vets are by far the most honest! america is so much more rotten than the banana republic where i live!i do not understand why soldiers get killed and maimed for shit money and benefits defending a ROTTEN system! i would not die for these criminals. Screw them all!
And what possible explanation could there be for VA employess who go into the system and create bogus accounts and steal $615,000 in disability benefits from veterans and their spouses? That’s what Joy Brown helped herself to. Or the Senior Claims Examiner Hack Carr, who worked in the St Petersburg, FL office for 29 years who cheated the governement out of $40,000.
Don’t hear about these stories do you? Both of these indivduals are serving Federal time as they should be along with another VA employee in NY who helped himself to a few funds while mounds of paperwork sits on desks, floors, or making their way to a shredder. Talk about Stolen Valor. Maybe the solution here is that in order to work at the VA you have to stood in the line of fire and made the sacrifice to be better suited to the job of taking care of our veterans.