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Gen. James Conway Says No Bunking with Gays
Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway
Did Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway indicate last week his intention to not carry out an order from the President of the United States?
Gen. James Conway says any new policy on gays serving in the Armed Forces should be determined by asking serving members what they think.
One would think the chain of command begins with the Commander-in-Chief. Is Conway issuing a direct challenge to President Obama and Secretary Gates like Army Lt. Gen. Benjamin Mixon?
Conway said he would not ask Marines to bunk with gays. What if Conway were ordered, per Obama’s stated intent to end the ban on gays serving openly?
From Military.com
The Marine Corps’ top officer said March 25 that even if the ban on openly-serving gays in the services is lifted, he would draw the line at forcing heterosexual Marines to bunk with gays on base.
“We want to continue [two-person rooms], but I would not ask our Marines to live with someone who is homosexual if we can possibly avoid it,” Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway told Military.com during an exclusive interview at the Pentagon. “And to me that means we have to build BEQs [bachelor enlisted quarters] and have single rooms.”
Conway’s comments came the same day that Defense Secretary Robert Gates reprimanded the Army’s Pacific commander for publicly exhorting servicemembers and civilians to write to Congress to oppose repeal of the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy. Army Lt. Gen. Benjamin Mixon made his views known in a letter published in Stars and Stripes on March 8.
Listen to Gen. Conway’s Exclusive Comments on Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell:
“If those of us who are in favor of retaining the current policy do not speak up, there is no chance to retain the current policy,” Mixon said in his letter.
Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen said Mixon should consider resigning over the comments, which fly in the face of President Obama’s stated intent to end the ban on gays serving openly. Mullen is an advocate of repeal.
Also on March 25, Pentagon chief Robert Gates announced new guidelines intended to make it more difficult to boot someone from the service under DADT, including elevating the grade of officers able to separate gay servicemembers to flag and general officers only. Previously, O-6s could separate members determined to have committed homosexual conduct, according to a Defense Department statement.
Conway is already on the record opposing repeal of the current law, but his comments to Military.com fall far short of Mixon’s call for petitioning Congress. Conway said that if the law is changed, the Corps will have to find ways to mitigate the disruption he believes would ensue. Billeting will represent one of the problems, he believes.
“In this case, I would want to reserve the right of a Marine that thinks he or she wouldn’t want to [share a room with a homosexual]. And again that’s the overwhelming … number of people that say that they wouldn’t like to do so.” Conway said the Corps billets two-to-a-room — unique today among the services — because it believes it’s good for unit cohesion. But if a gay Marine sharing a room with a straight one has the opposite effect, the Corps will adopt the single-room standard of the other services.
Elaine Donnelly of the Center for Military Readiness said the question is whether the military, without a ban on gays serving openly, will opt for mixing gays and heterosexual troops in the same facilities or have “separate but equal” facilities.
“That’s what [Conway] seems to be advocating here,” she said. This is something the working group established by Gates to look at repealing Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell should address up front, Donnelly said.
“I think that, in itself, is why Congress will vote to retain the law and not repeal it,” she said.
Larry Korb, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress in Washington, said concerns such as those voiced by Conway have not been borne out by services that have already lifted bans on gays serving openly.
“We went into the British and French experience and looked at separate facilities and separate showers, and they don’t have a problem,” Korb told Military.com. “They’ve not changed their policies from before.”
Conway said he expects the working group established by Gates to look at repealing DADT will provide the services “with more data than ever before about how our people think and what the impact of the change might be.” But after conducting numerous town hall-style meetings around the Corps with Sgt. Maj. of the Marine Corps Carlton Kent, Conway believes most Marines have real concerns about gays serving openly.
He said they routinely ask the Marines three questions: Do they believe repealing Don’t Ask will adversely impact good order and discipline? Will repeal have an adverse impact on unit cohesion? And would they be willing to share a room with a Marine who has declared himself or herself a homosexual?
“An overwhelming number of Marines have significant concerns about those issues,” Conway said. “If perception is reality, we just think our Corps would not want to see a change.”
Photo by Marine Cpl. Erin Kirk-Cuomo.
Short URL: http://www.veteranstoday.com/?p=23811
Posted by Yanira Farray on Mar 28 2010, With 0 Reads, Filed under Military. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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Congress keeps asking generals about the effects of openly gay people in the military. But generals won’t be required to bunk with them in barracks or share fighting holes with them in combat. Notice only General Conway has suggested simply asking currently-serving troops what THEY think. The reason for that is that Congress and the Obama Administration know full well that, if polled, the great majority of our troops would say, “no”. We are in the middle of a war. Do we want to win that war or not? Anything that degrades our combat readiness or our troops’ will to fight is bad. Stop trying to use the military services as an agent of a social change—the full acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle—that the majority of Americans do not accept. You can grant homosexuals equal rights legally, but you cannot force the majority of society to accept homosexuality as a “legitimate alternative lifestyle”. Civilians can simply elect not to associate with homosexuals or move to another neighborhood if they feel uncomfortable; military personnel cannot. Is the DOD going to allow currently-serving members the option to terminate their enlistments rather than to serve with openly homosexual enlistees? No. But if they determine that openly homosexual people can serve, they should.
Also, gay germs may get into your system. Good thinking, chief.
Are those who are pushing this tripe prepared for the backlash ? Does anyone remember what the term “frag” means (no, not “fag”,/… “Frag”).
What the hell is libwriter Leon referencing in his garbage? Maybe the dude is deaf & can’t hear exactly what the CMC said? What order has Obama issued? An order for Congress to amend federal law? That’s ripe! Marines in the field are voicing that repeal of federal law will have an adverse impact on unit cohesion, good order & discipline, and that bunking hetros with homosexuals will create problems. This is the purpose of Gates DoD study. To ascertain drawbacks to a repeal and how to mitigate disturbance to our All-Volunteer Military. Sorry libs if the answers coming from the field do not support the propaganda you all have been vomiting throughout the years. Veterans Today should remove that US Flag & replace it with a Rainbow one as this organization surely lacks integrity.
Since when are troops polled on official policy? If the white servicemembers in 1948 had been polled about whether to racially integrate the US Military, what do you think the response would have been? The desegreation of the US Armed Forces was accomplished with strong leadership. Leadership and a zero tolerance policy for bias will be what will make the repeal of don’t ask don’t tell a sucess like that of CJS Admiral Mike Mullen who supports the change.
Homosexuality is not a religion, nor is it a race-skin color or ethicity. It is an action and attitude. Therefore it cannot be included with this comment ”If the white servicemembers in 1948 had been polled about whether to racially integrate the US Military, what do you think the response would have been?”
I was in the Corps for 8 years. I apprciate Gen. Pace and Gen. Conway for their stance, and doing what is right for the morale and discipline of our Marines. Not everyone is going to agree with a leader’s decision or judgment, but if you don’t like it- get in and get into the position to where YOU can make decisions
“What if Conway were ordered, per Obama’s stated intent to end the ban on gays serving openly?”
That’s called a conditional statement above.
Specialk, quit thinking about the other guy’s dick so much, maybe you should move to Iran; they hate gays there as much you do.
With all due respect to the USMC Commandant, there are ALREADY gay marines bunking, sleeping in pup tents and showering in the barracks with their straight counterparts right now. The don’t ask don’t tell law is justified by protecting “morale, unit cohesion and readiness” but General Conway and Lieutenant General Mixon are compromising those things by resisting inevitable change. The UK has a very competent Marine force that partners with the US Military in OIF and OEF and they have had open service for gays since 2000. No apparent problems in the British Marines with morale or unit cohesion etc.
Dino, not sure if your a Vet or what, but your comments make believe you are not or you just have no clue and cannot back up your claims. As an active duty SNCO in the Corps with 26 plus years of service, and whose wife is active duty Navy and with our oldest son a Marine, I think I’m bit of an expert on cohesion and what it takes to get a group of young men and women to fight. Not to mention I have a gay activist brother to boot, so I have heard it all from that end as well. First off, Admiral Mullen exercised undue command influance when he spoke before the Senate and said that he supports a repeal of the executive order that bans homosexuals from serving openly (U.S. Code law that bans homosexuals from serving will have to change by the Congress). He said that out one side of his mouth while out of the other he and SecDef said that they have initiated a study on the effects of such a repeal. He also stated that he does not know what the effects will be but we should go ahead with a repeal. How did this guy get to where he is today with that thought process. Talk about putting the cart before the horse. Second, yep, we have all heard the argument that gays are already there. But, under DADT, you do not know who they are. And that fact goes along way to protect good order and dicipline, and unit cohesion. CMC is right on the money with what he and the SgtMaj of the Marine Corps are being told by the Marines they visit in each town hall they hold. Even when discussing the matter with our Marines, they want nothing to do with gays serving openly, to include rooming with someone they know is gay. I wish one of you proponents of a repeal would explain to me and the rest of us in the service, just how in the heck is a repeal of DADT going to ENHANCE our warfighting capabilities??? How is a life style choice that a small percentage of troops made going to enable us to close with and destroy the enemy better than we do now? We are here to kill people and break things. We are not here so the Commander and Chief can use us to personally thank the gay community for voting for him. I mean, if the CinC was really supportive of gays, why does he not push for a federal law giving the green light for gay marriage? You know why, because he does not believe in it himself and has stated as such. But we are nothing to him and he will throw us under the bus at the exspense of national security, something he is clearly weak in. Third point, I love how everyone touts that NATO countries and the Isreali’s should be the example for us to follow as far as armies go. Well, just last week the U.S. govt and the Pentagon fired a shot across NATO’s bow on the inability of NATO forces in Afghanistan are unable to execute many of the missions that we need them to do. It is to the point that we may not even ask for their support any longer. The British Armed forces are not even a quarter of the size of U.S. Armed Forces, their Navy is no where near what it once was. The had the gays shoved down their throats for social reasons (ask any Brit officer or senior NCO). Oh, and the Isreali’s? I’m always supportive of them, but, they need everyone to serve for a manditory two year stint because nearly all their neighbors want to destroy them. In the summer of 2006 in Lebanon, they fought a rag-tag terrorist army in Hizboallah to a TIE. Are these the militaries we are to emulate, just because they let gays serve openly? I think not. And since when are troops polled? Since SecDef said so in his study he initiated. And our families are going to have their say as well. And for my gay activist brother, he has made it clear that military service is not their goal. Nope, their goal is to gain full acceptance in the last institute that all Americans fully trust, the Armed Forces. He said if they gain acceptance here, the rest of their agenda will fall into place. Thank God for our CMC and LtGen Mixon. Men of moral character will always stand out in the face wrong.
What, you think you speak for all Marines? All Army? All armed forces?
“Men of moral character”? Bigotry is not the full measure of a man, but it sure ain’t helping them to stand out.
You don’t speak for god either, pal.
Take your Christian bullshit and go start another country——based on Christian bullshit.
Ok homofacist, keep spewing your nonsense. See, a new word for you all. Because everytime someone disagree’s with your lifestyle and agenda, they are homophobes or a bigot. So that makes you a homofacist when you attack those that don’t agree with you in my book. I speak as a Marine and an expert on what makes the machine run and what will foul it up. Can you say that? No, then a hearty thank you will surfice for the blanket of freedom we provide you all.
You are a bigot. Be proud.
And you don’t speak for all Marines. You think you do?
To whom it may concern,……as a member of the Army for over thirty eight years, a Nam vet and Storm also, I find many good points that Leatherneck1775 makes. It also is a bit tiring to have comparisons made with the Slabovian army, Swedish army or the Canadian army. No, I don’t speak for all and in fact I mentioned just a short time ago that I served in Nam with a gay man who was an excellent soldier. He received the Bronze Star and Purple heart. I do not speak for the army but have seen enough to know that the bottom line is to obtain stability within the military. My second cousin in England is a regimental colonel and I have talked to him about if he has experienced any problems with augmenting gays into a stable unit and would it work. He said in some cases yes but in strict combat units it does not.
How in the heck did a writer like Mike Leon make it in here? Talk about a liberal, lefty. His above story could not be anymore left than it is. Great job Mike.
You’re right: Civil rights, equal protection, due process, liberty and equality are commie plots to take over America. Didn’t get by you for one second.
As for how I got here: Proud to say I worked my ass off for years fighting what seems like every fucking scumbag in the DVA and was asked to write and edit here.
You don’t like it, take a fucking hike.
With all due respect Leatherneck1775, when I served in the Corps it was never a democracy and neither I nor my family were ever polled on whether we liked an order from the CINC, SECDEF and CJCS. When this law is changed, and that is inevitable, it will be a nonevent. The same gays who are presently serving will continue to serve with distinction. If they want to get promoted they will only come out to those they trust. The difference will be that they will not have to lie in order not to be discharged. This is all about integrity. I fear General Conway, like Pace before him is being driven by deeply held religious beliefs. They both have a right to those beliefs but in a secular military their personal beliefs should remain personal. General Conway should be a leader and get with the program or do the only honorable thing and resign in protest.
Captain USMC, can’t speak for your time from but the SecDef already announced that the troops and families will participate in the study on a repeal. General Conway is driven by only one thing in this matter and that is unless open homosexuality will enhance the warfighting capability of the U.S. Marines, he as our commandant is against any change to the current policy which works for the Marine Corps. Resign, please? He has too much pride and love for our Corps. I think you missed those classes at TBS, sir.
I think the reason Conway is pushing back is because it hasn’t been made an explicit order yet. He sees that the decision is as yet unmade, and so he is pushing back, which is what any good subordinate with a strong opinion about something has an obligation to do. He’s entitled to his opinion, and it should be taken into consideration. And that’s my nice version.
The more realistic explanation is this: Obama wants to keep his momentum going with the part of the country who rejoiced at healthcare, and that demographic overlaps significantly with the one who doesn’t see any reason not to repeal DADT. He wants to keep the ball rolling, and so he has (very) preemptively announced that he is pushing for a repeal. Gates toned this down a bit, and so did Mullen, because let’s face it, there is no conclusive data proving that open gay service doesn’t decrease combat capability. That, and we are in the midst of a war, where there are American troops dying in the fight, and our CinC is more worried about his own political well-being than he is about winning and bringing them home.
How about a little prioritization? Let’s finish up Afghanistan and Iraq, get our guys back here, and then, when things are a little steadier for the guys who are actually fighting and dying, we can work on integrating every social minority in America into our beloved Corps.
You think FDR was worried about this penny-ante b.s. when WWII was going on? How many people will it really effect if it stays in place for another couple years? And if we repeal it preemptively, who wants to tell some dead Marine’s mom that he died because he found out his platoon commander was gay and was momentarily distracted by that during a patrol so he missed that sniper, or that IED, or that Taliban hiding in the 4th house on the left? Is this really the time? With guys in the field? This can wait.
The President is doing this because it’s the right thing to do, it’s about equal protection and due process, that’s part of the Constitution that you swore to defend.
Obama campainged on it, and reaffirmed his decision many times since.
Like Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said to Gen. Benjamin Mixon: You don’t like it, resign.
But are you kidding about a Marine being “momentarily distracted” by thinking about gays under fire? Missing a sniper? Didn’t think about an IED because his mind was on gays? You are kidding, right?
Obama CAMPAINGED on it! There it is, and the truth has set you free. Yep so let’s sacrifice the Armed Forces, something he has no clue about, so he can thank the gay community for the votes. FDR and Lincoln weep!
Hey Leatherneck,
Have you considered forming a Klavern in your parts. You know, with just the right kind of people?
You may wish to consider reading StormFront; they’ve love ya.
See what I mean, like clock work, I disagree with you and you lable me a homophobe (just like my gay activist brother does) oh and this is one I have been labled yet, a white supremist. Man, homofacist are so predictable. But that’s ok, I know 99% of all American’s, even gay ones, appritiate the fact that I serve my country a defend your right to spew your left wing propaganda. And if it came to it, I would take a bullet for your right to do what you do. Semper Fi, Mike.
Leatherneck, You do appear a man of deep principle.
I retract my stormtroop comment.
But you do not fuck with another’s right to serve and live equally under the law: Gays, Jews, Blacks, Native American. I don’t care who you are. We are equal.
A lot of people have died fighting for equality in America and the enemy is right here in the hearts of bigots.
It appears that the All Voumunteer Force does not work for those of you who think that, the small percentage of gay troops makes a difference, or the fact that such a small percentage are discharge under DADT (less than a percent). Seeing that the AVF has failed, lets start manditory 24 month service for all able bodied 18-26 year olds (26 because that is the new health insurance cut off for your kids).Does that work for you DADT Repeal supporters?
How about we halt bullshit wars based on lies that betray not just the armed forces but the whole country?
But there is a valid argument to make about a draft, makes it more difficult to start and sustain bullshit wars.
Also I don’t disagree with gays being allowed to serve, not as a right, but as a privledge, like the rest of us. But openly is were I draw the line. DADT is the best option Mike. Too many 2d and 3d order effects. I mean in 2008 the Armed Forces discharged nearly 250 for DADT violations, but 4,555 were discharged that same year for being unable to maintain their service’s weight standards. Both are determent to readiness. That is why the services decriminate. Strict requirements ensure that you get what you need people wise to run the machine in combat.
Homosexuality is not a religion, nor is it a race-skin color or ethicity. It is an action and attitude. Therefore it cannot be included with this comment”If the white servicemembers in 1948 had been polled about whether to racially integrate the US Military, what do you think the response would have been?”
I was in the Corps for 8 years. I apprciate Gen. Pace and Gen. Conway for their stance, and doing what is right for the morale and discipline of our Marines. Not everyone is going to agree with a leader’s decision or judgment, but if you don’t like it- get in and get into the position to where YOU can make decisions.
Leave it to the troops – they will solve the problem
To answer Leon’s question: No.
The question is predicated on fallacy. Gen. Conway said three main things:
1. The Marine Corps wants to continue shared quarters.
2. Overwhelming numbers of Marines are concerned about shared quarters. As the top spokesman for the Marine Corps (his billet mandates this), he is obligated to speak on behalf of these Marines.
3. He believes a repeal of DADT would require single quarters if it does not enhance unit cohesion — a significant funding issue. As the CMC, he is obligated to consider this issue.
At no point did he say he would refuse to carry out the president’s orders.
The second question which wraps up Leon’s piece, is also written based on fallacy. Gen. Conway cannot “end the ban on gays serving openly”. Congress does that.
Yeha, policy on gays serving openly does not come from Conway. Conway just wants it that way.
His asking-Marines-PR is political posturing and you damn well know it.
The president has repeated his stated intent to end the ban on gays serving openly.
Conway’s job now is to shut the fuck up or quit as Defense Secretary Robert Gates said to Army Lt. Gen. Benjamin Mixon who muttered similar anti-gay crap coming from the same Christianite pile.
Wouldn’t it be interesting if Gen. Conway and his troops “crossed the Rubicon”. It appears more and more each day that unless the states recognize their inherint power under the Tenth Amendment, that this may be required to save the nation from the internal destruction of the current administration.
Discrimination against gay and lesbian Americans who are military fighting men and women is so anachronistic as to be no more than a vestigial limb on the body of the American military. Unlike President Obama, who never served a day in the military, President Harry S Truman WAS an American fighting man who displayed qualities of leadership, bravery, and courage under fire. President Truman desegrated the military in 1948…20 years before the rest of (racist) American society caught up–and President Truman was NO social liberal; he just realized that American fighting manpower was stronger WITH Blacks integrated than segregated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman
It is difficult for President Obama to stand up to the neanderthals under his command because the president lacks military experience…and credibility. That is why he often looks to be bumbling, stumbling, unsure, and clueless. That is why the idiots under his command treat him like a naive sissy who can be routinely pimp-slapped.
After President Obama finishes his first (and only) term, it would seem as though the next president will have the military cred to completely dismantle the archaic practice of discrimination against gay military members.
When fighting two simulaneous wars, every able and ready fighting man and fighting woman is gratefully welcomed by all liberty-loving Americans who realize that freedom is not free…and that freedom costs blood.
[...] on morale, retention, unit cohesion, and good order and discipline in the future military (see Lt. Gen. Conway; Gen. [...]
every f—–g scumbag in the DVA.( Quote from mouth Mike)
What in hell does the DAV have to do with this post? If you can’t get along with the DAV you better get a few smarts and do it the right way.If you don’t have the smarts, come see me and I will show you how. You sound like one that wants to kill all the good in this country. Don’t say I don’t know what I’m talking about. I have been going to them for more years than some of the writers on this site. Talk about being far left, as someone posted, there is no question that the writers here have it all sewed up. YOU MIKE, has got pissed at a poster that had a different opinion then you. You turn around and f–k this and that. I don’t think any one should mouth off like that, especially the writers on this site.Don’t forget that anyone can read the crap you spew out. It would be best to cut the shit out. Mind you I have heard it all in my time as a Vet. Also you and others are fighting on here. The BS from you is enough to make anyone fight. I will to defend the DAV.I was called on to calm it down on here one time, and another posting things like you have done,w/o f——g this and that, and my post was thrown out. NUFF said for now. Bob Y USA
What in hell does the DAV have to do with this post? I made an error in my post above. My refernce to DVA went out as the DAV. Sorry about that.
There are no standards anymore in the US. Our sexual immorality is out of control. We sit each day and watch our children be raped and tortured due obviously to a culture that is based on sexual lusts. It is an embarrassment that anyone who is not completely open to anything is called a NAZI or a bigot. What a shame. There is no right or wrong. I think homosexuality is immoral. Do I want to kill them? Hell no. Am I perfect? Of course not. I think a man should be a man and a woman be a woman. Anyone who believes that homosexuality is perfectly fine should do some research. In my opinion it is harmful to the individual. We now tell our young people that there is a good chance they are gay. At a time when they need real love and guidance we fill them with “whatever feels good do it” leadership. I am sorry, but that is not real love or leadership. It takes real people to tell someone they are wrong.
What a coward to use such harsh language (NAZI, bigot) when someone disagrees with your position.
First of all, thank you for your service.
But black, white, brown or purple, gay, lesbian, Jewish, Catholic, an American has the same right as the next American.
Liberty, equality, due process of law: That’s what I work for.
As for bigotry, anti-gays are bigots, by definition.
These kids today are all queers, drug-addicts and welfare wastes.
Sound familiar?