Just read this article on controlling the press by regulations and murder. The US press was not on the list of the worst violators, but several conspiracy theory idiots in the comment section want us to be. Looks like you are not alone in your paranoid views.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100503/ts_afp/mediarightsrsf

Any comments?

First, you don’t “allow” me anything, because you have no control over me whatsoever. If I agree to something that is all it will be, an agreement. You will agree to the same rules you try to impose on me or we won’t be having a chat. Other than that, sure, pin me down, I can defend any statement I make, but it has to be taken in full context. Ron said this to me….”perhaps you will then begin to see how he (Gates) has provided the ability to read behind the scenes, notwithstanding what the controlled media would have us believe.”

I took that statement to mean that Ron believes the media in its entirety is “controlled”, as in a coordinated effort to control what Americans will hear just like the Chinese control what the citizens of China hear. Whether every news outlet has an owner and is free to control what gets put out is something else entirely. Upon hearing a crack pot comment like that the logical question was what I asked next…”can you document how it is controlled and by who?” If you are now going to point to the irrelevant example that Rupert Murdock owns a number of tv, newspapers, and cable outlets as proof that the media is controlled, or that Jews do well and many media outlets are owned by Jews, my response is going to be a big…so what? What if one man owns a lot of media outlets? What if Jews do well? What would that tell us about control? Not a damn thing. It tells us a lot about capitalism and the free market. People buy Murdock’s papers because he makes the content interesting and accurate, if he didn’t he would be a failure. The First Amendment guarantees Murdock the right to print anything he wants, pro government or anti government at his sole discretion and the public has the sole discretion to refuse to do business with him if they catch him lying like (Full of Hot) Air America. Conservative talk radio is thriving well, because the majority of Americans are center right. Liberal loons have failed, because all they have are a few sound bytes and empty sloganeering, Americans do not want that anti Americn drivel, so they do not support the enterprise. Control has zero to do with it. Credibility is everything. So the question stands. Can you document how the media in its entirety is controlled and by who? Can you eve document how the majority of the media is controlled and by who? Most media outlets are free capital enterprises. Some may have funding for political or ideological dissemination of information, but who cares? Racists even have their own media outlets black and white. There is Storm Front and there is Final Call. What single entity controls both of them? How do they collaborate? The truth is they are not controlled by any central authority or cabal as I said. Media in the US is free and robust. It leans dangerously left, but it is free from governmental control. O how would Watergate have broken just for one glaring example? So sure, if you want to focus on one portion of my statement, be my guest, but understand the context or it will be rejected. I want proof that the government controls what gets printed or that there is a “cabal” as I said that meets and plots what all the media outlets will print, say, or display. Where was the last meeting held? Who showed up? Name a verifiable news item they all decided to keep from us. Barring proof, you owe me an apology for butting into something I said to Ron and trying to make the claim I label a conspiracy theory.

“explain precisely what a “conspitorial allegation” is, in your view, and please explain how making such a “conspitorial allegation” (unconditionally?) causes one to “lose credibility”.”

I sometimes string words together that may or may not make sense, again, it is a weakness of mine as an at best semi lucid writer. You did mean conspiratorial, right? An allegation is a claim you have made, or in this instance, a claim Ron made. He claimed the media was controlled. In context he meant it to mean that Gates was somehow in the know and everything else the rest of us mere mortals hear is controlled propaganda, so Gates is providing a service. Uhhh…yeah. The claim that the media is controlled is a conspiracy theory, a childish and ignorant one, but a conspiracy theory. So the words I strung together meant that you lose credibility when you make a claim or an allegation as a fact, based on an unfounded urban myth or conspiracy theory. Did that clear it up, or are you still confused.

Don’t make me dissect Chomsky again. I won’t be happy if you quote an intricate lie builder as proof that the media is controlled. A meeting time, an agenda, a comprehensive attendance record that covers all outlets, a court decision limiting First Amendment rights, a well researched neutral study by someone competent, something not posted on Storm Front or Illuminati News or Jew Watch preferably. I won’t accept someone else’s opinion as a fact. A fact is something that can be verified by an original source. Quoting some figure stating we Jews control the media needs to have a time and verifiable record where I can read the entire context of the statement, etc…Let’s leave no room to wiggle out of it. Sure.

Once again, you said in part:

“You lose credibility when you make conspiratorial allegations. This is not China or Gaza, we have a robust press and it is foolish to think that the heads of the major media outlets gather in some kind of cabal to plot what Americans will hear.”

First, please explain precisely what a “conspitorial allegation” is, in your view, and please explain how making such a “conspitorial allegation” (unconditionally?) causes one to “lose credibility”.

Second, let’s focus on what I see as the operative part of that statement: “[I]t is foolish to think that the heads of the major media outlets gather in some kind of cabal to plot what Americans will hear.”

Can we take that statement of yours at face value?

So let’s get to details….

You stated….”Here’s one particularly stupid – make that laughably absurd – thing you said above. You said:

“As far as the loony statement that the media is controlled, can you document how it is controlled and by who? You lose credibility when you make conspiratorial allegations. This is not China or Gaza, we have a robust press and it is foolish to think that the heads of the major media outlets gather in some kind of cabal to plot what Americans will hear.”

You make a ridiculous statement like that, then you expect to be taken seriously? Anyone not living in a closet knows that “our” media is being used against us.”

Normally when you are going to dispute something you will provide supporting evidence. My statement had a question…can you document how it (the media) is controlled and by who? The key word would be “document”. Can you point to an expose of some sort by a credible investigator that “documents” media control in the US? You seem to making a challenge here, with out of place ridicule, apparently, but have forgotten to bring ammunition for your rifle. I would like to read the “source” that convinced you that the media is controlled for myself. Scuttlebutt and school or the office is not a source. Why does MSNBC shill for the Democratic party and all the goofy liberal causes and FOX news supports American conservative values? The message is diametrically opposed. Rush Limbaugh does not carry the same message that Al Franken had. No issue is cast in the same light from global warming to Katrina to the war on terror. I’m sorry, sir or madam, to think that the US media is controlled is a product of paranoia run amok.

Now, we know for “fact” that China censors and filters the Internet. They limit search capabilities for democracy for example and we know they do it because craven cowards like Google allowed filtering software to be used from search requests from China. According to Amnesty International, China “has the largest recorded number of imprisoned journalists and cyber-dissidents in the world.” China blocks net content and monitors net use. That is control of the media. There is no case that I am aware of in the US, and we have courts to hear these sorts of challenges, of the US government controlling what can and can’t be seen outside of child pornography and the like. If you have “evidence” bring it next time you come around shouting at me.

“I’ll tell you what, I’ll give you an indisputable example of how “our” media is being used against us, an incident that was obviously planned by, now get this, CONSPIRATORS – yes that’s right, CONSPIRATORS, and then I want you to retract what you said and publicly admit that you were wrong.”

I am prepared to retract ANY statement I have made and apologize if you do bring “indisputable examples” of media control. An example of how the media is used against us is not what I challenged. There is no doubt that Obama is attacking America through information warfare through willing outlets. That is a far cry from having “control” over the media. If you can document how the US media is controlled then I will publicly admit I am wrong, and since I am using my real name it will mean a whole lot more than if you did the same, Mr or Ms Nelson…and yes, a pseudonym allows you to say and be reckless with your words, so it is cowardice when you spout shit that the rest of us know is wrong.

Here’s one particularly stupid – make that laughably absurd – thing you said above. You said:

“As far as the loony statement that the media is controlled, can you document how it is controlled and by who? You lose credibility when you make conspiratorial allegations. This is not China or Gaza, we have a robust press and it is foolish to think that the heads of the major media outlets gather in some kind of cabal to plot what Americans will hear.”

You make a ridiculous statement like that, then you expect to be taken seriously? Anyone not living in a closet knows that “our” media is being used against us.

I’ll tell you what, I’ll give you an indisputable example of how “our” media is being used against us, an incident that was obviously planned by, now get this, CONSPIRATORS – yes that’s right, CONSPIRATORS, and then I want you to retract what you said and publicly admit that you were wrong.

If you’ll publicly admit that you were wrong, then I’ll invest the time and refute your other statements about Iraq as well.

You see, I’m not going to waste time arguing with an idiot who’s just being contrary.

And as far as my pseudonym goes, I didn’t mean to imply that using a pseudonym gives me perfect anonymity. That’s not the point. For that matter you could ask, why lock your car door when a thief could break the window? Why encrypt your hard drive when there’s “atomic force microscopy”, etc.? You use the level of protection that you feel is commensurate with the situation.

You have something to say to me, so I offered you a way to be heard without interference from a moderator. Speak your mind. I wouldn’t want you to feel at a disadvantage. Choose the ground and I will come for you if you want a piece of me. For my part, I am curious how the entity known as Nelson became a dweller in the dark and I am disappointed at the sudden change of heart. Maybe you are somebody with an image and ego to defend here so you don’t feel up to investing the effort elsewhere, but to me you are nothing more than a source of mild amusement. Of course, if I held your ignorant views I wouldn’t want to face me either.

“Your statements are beyond outrageous – they’re completely self-refuting, and they reflect a world view that simply has no basis whatsoever in reality.”

Can you be more specific than, awww yer dumb, you don’t know what yer talkin about, yer blind, blah blah blah….yup, I’m smart, I’m with the cool crowd, I know things and you don’t. I can back up any statement I have made. What would you like to understand? Dead civilians in Iraq? Israel not being our enemy? If you can’t focus on anything I have said, you look petty waving your arms around and generalizing.

“Obviously, nothing that anyone here says is going to convince you of anything.”

I wouldn’t necessarily say that. You have convinced me that you are an idiot. Am I going to take anyone’s word for it? Am I going to be led by the nose with one inference or best guess after another like a bull to the slaughterhouse without putting up a fight? No. I need verifiable fact supporting any analysis, because unlike you Nelson I haven’t drawn a conclusion and gravitated towards some asshole with a diploma that says what you want to hear. Israel hatred is a lucrative business, Nelson.

“I actually almost feel sorry for you in a way. At some level, in some sense, part of you realizes that you’re living a lie, but you refuse to give in. Unlike the rest of us, you refuse to accept that you’ve been duped; instead you fight on, having erected a barrier…facts and solid reasoning simply bounce off you like bullets bounce off Superman.”

You are projecting. If you don’t know what that means, look it up. There are no solid facts presented here. Not a single printed line can stand up to scrutiny from stating that U.S. national security is endangered and then insinuating that Israel is the source of the danger to the childish delusion that declaring Jerusalem an international city will “resolve those hostilities” when the root of the hostility was codified in a religious text written 1400 years ago. Jerusalem has no value to Islam at all, if it did it would have been mentioned at least once in the Quran, it is not. Not once.

“Thus as “our” government waxes worse and worse, the more atrocities it commits, the more lies it tells, the more obvious the evil, the more fanatical you must become in defense of it.”

What atrocity is our government committing, Nelson? Besides turning on our good friends Israel. I thought your ilk would be happy with that?

You called me a “coward” for using a pseudonym. Well, in this age of limitless government treachery, using a pseudonym reflects prudence, not cowardice. What’s cowardly is your inability to look in the mirror.

Do you honestly believe you can’t be found by the traces you leave on the web? Or that an insignificant fool like you warrants scrutiny? I admit you sound like a neo-Nazi or Klan member and are definitely schizophrenic, but if Gates can man up and use his real name and photo don’t you think one of the parasites clinging to his ass should be safe too? I speculate the real reason is much more likely that you are ashamed of your words and your Jew hatred. You understand that civil society shuns lepers like you and you dare not reveal who you are in case your boss, or your clients, or your customers, or your family, or whoever finds out what a rotten piece of detritus you are. If you are not engaged in anything illegal stand up and be counted, real vets gave and maintain that right for you. Put your ass on the line like the rest of us that dwell on the sunny side of the rock, Nelson, there is a lot to be seen up here.

The offer stands to debate anywhere of your choosing. I might be able to help you out of the darkness if you give me a chance.

Your statements are beyond outrageous – they’re completely self-refuting, and they reflect a world view that simply has no basis whatsoever in reality.

Obviously, nothing that anyone here says is going to convince you of anything.

I actually almost feel sorry for you in a way. At some level, in some sense, part of you realizes that you’re living a lie, but you refuse to give in. Unlike the rest of us, you refuse to accept that you’ve been duped; instead you fight on, having erected a barrier…facts and solid reasoning simply bounce off you like bullets bounce off Superman.

Thus as “our” government waxes worse and worse, the more atrocities it commits, the more lies it tells, the more obvious the evil, the more fanatical you must become in defense of it.

You called me a “coward” for using a pseudonym. Well, in this age of limitless government treachery, using a pseudonym reflects prudence, not cowardice. What’s cowardly is your inability to look in the mirror.

This post was mentioned on Twitter by veteranstoday: Veterans Today: Our Commander-in-Chief Needs Our Support http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/04/24/our-commander-in-chief-needs-our-support/...

Ron, at least I am good at something. How should I react to Gate’s bigotry? Demonization of a people has been documented as a precursor to genocide and in my opinion the Jews have suffered enough violence at the hands of the rest of us. This load of unfounded BS is hateful and even, yes, evil. Make no mistake, Israel and Zionism are the modern embodiment of the Jewish people. Singling Israel out or holding that nation to an impossible standard is anti-Semitism.

Almost 30% of the hostile resolutions coming from the UN are against Israel. You don’t think there has been enough hatred of those 5 million Jews…at the same time slavery, SLAVERY just became illegal a few years ago in parts of the Muslim world? Do you feel those 5 million Israeli Jews are the cause of 30% of the world’s problems? I ask you to keep perspective. What Gates is doing is not only wrong, it is immoral.

You ask a confusing question. You want to know if it was right to support Saddam against Iran? Or are you suggesting we supported Saddam against Kuwait? The answer to the first is yes it was right at the time to support Saddam against Iran. That does not mean we agree with Saddam or share any values with Saddam, it means that the decision was made that the alternative would have been worse not to support Saddam. I would cut my dog loose on you in a minute if you gave me a reason to do so, but that does not mean he sleeps on my bed.

Gates is stumping for the democratic party by calling for support of the worst leader in American history regardless of his criminal conduct and mockery of our great nation. No, I have not read his book and it is not high on my to do list. I do have an open mind though, regardless of the opinion you may have formed of me with a hand full of postings. “We were deceived to wage war in Iraq on fabricated intelligence”, comes straight out of the Democratic play book. Telling the truth about Islam is “provocative rhetoric”, another Democratic calling card. Maybe I am reading too much into it, maybe it is pure Jew hatred and Gates wants us all to rally around a Manchurian candidate as he throws the Jewish nation under the bus to grovel at the feet of our real enemies. A sacrificial offering the good hearted American people are not willing to make. Where Gates sees a sinister lobby, an enemy within, I see common sense and shared values.

As far as the loony statement that the media is controlled, can you document how it is controlled and by who? You lose credibility when you make conspiratorial allegations. This is not China or Gaza, we have a robust press and it is foolish to think that the heads of the major media outlets gather in some kind of cabal to plot what Americans will hear. You want to talk facts? Bring some to the table or shove off.

I asked Gates to explain what to an average everyday American is a legitimate question: “How did removing a murderous tyrant not serve our interests?”

Instead of waiting for Gates to come up with a rational response, instead of trying to answer the question with a legitimate response, Nelson the dumb ass needs to know, “So, in other words, if someone in some other country decided that the murderous U.S. government needed to be overthrown, and they attacked and invaded the U.S., you’d support the invaders?

If the US government was led by a perverse dictator with all the murderous qualities of Saddam Hussein, if the citizens of our country were disarmed and terrorized by his secret police, if our citizens were routinely tortured, raped, and executed without trials, if we were powerless to rid ourselves of this monster and had never tasted a day of freedom in our lives, yeah, I would hope that some other nation would take pity on us and do the right thing. Obviously you are either incapable of empathy for a powerless people, you do not think things through when you open your fat mouth, or you are asking a fool’s question by framing the invasion of the leading beacon of decency, human rights, and personal liberty as being equal to invading a totalitarian nightmare and grotesque example of human conduct. Which is it, smart boy?

“Who made “us” (or YOU) judge, jury and executioner?”

The UN had over a dozen Chapter VII resolutions authorizing the use of force to put an end to Saddam’s deprivations. You do know what the relevance of Chapter VII is? Go ahead and look it up, kid, you can pretend you knew after you learn something.

“How is it that Bush and you get to decide that getting rid of Saddam Hussein is worth the lives of a million Iraqis?”

First, only the worst sort of America hating dupe would accept the figure of a “million lives”, let alone that American forces caused that number of deaths. Two separate issues. Second, you don’t get to sound like you know something long after the fact. Show me any piece of evidence that corroborates your ignorant assertion that President Bush was willing to see a million Iraqis dead to get Saddam.

“Who appointed Bush and Obama and YOU as the ultimate arbiters of human life?”

Over half the nation, myself one of them…proudly, placed President Bush in charge of the leading light of the free world. Not sure what happened with the poser we have now that refuses to reveal his true status as an eligible candidate. More to the point, sometimes the position requires life and death decisions in case you didn’t understand that, kid. If you had to speculate, how do you suppose all the victims of the rape rooms and torture chambers we set free would feel if you were in charge of foreign policy?

“BTW, how come there were no “suicide bombers” in Iraq when Saddam was in power?”

They were busy murdering infidels in places like Israel, Chechnya, and Afghanistan. Are you suggesting that the US created suicide bombers? Or are you admitting that the majority of the dead civilians in Iraq are due to Sunni and Shia religious strife?

“Lastly, your nonsensical statements about “spreading democracy” show that you really know nothing about U.S. history, foreign policy and current events than what you see on Fox “News”.”

So Germany and Japan just spontaneously broke out into democracy, huh? US foreign policy had nothing to do with spreading a functioning democracy in those places, right Wizard?

“It’s really not worth even debating the subject with you.”

If I held your views, I wouldn’t want a piece of me either.