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Hostile Attitude toward America’s Veterans Using the VA is Nothing New
“Suspicion about motives eventually leads to the cynicism and disrespectful attitudes toward patients that are very common among physicians who have trained in VA medical centers.”
These words were quoted by Reporter Douglas Mossman for CBS Money Watch way back in 1994. Given the recent trashing to Veterans Claiming PTSD by Allen Breed of the Associated Press, the question remains just how much of this hostile attitude toward America’s Veterans continues to be promoted within the VA, and mainstream media, today in 2010?
The two recent articles we posted about Associated Press reporters spreading rumors about malingering Veterans based on testimonials from one former VA employee leads us to conclude that this exaggerated attitude may still exist within the VA by a few employees from administrative management to professional medical staff to medical students down to custodial staff. One aspect that may aggravate and sustain this negative attitude toward Veterans is the fact that the vast majority of VA employees, including Mental Health staff, are not VETERANS.
This is not intended, like the AP reports slam Veterans, to paint a broad stroke that all VA employees have a hostile attitude toward Vets, I know first-hand as a former VA employee and current user of VA health care that this is not so by far. The vast majority of VA employees are committed to the mission of caring for America’s Veterans without patronizing us.
Robert L. Hanafin, Major, U.S. Air Force-Retired, Veterans Today News Network
At the VA, it pays to be sick
SHOULD WE encourage veterans with psychiatric problems to remain ill?
Should we encourage them to undergo unnecessary hospitalization?
And, for those already hospitalized, should we encourage longer hospital stays than necessary?
Surely most people–experts and nonexperts alike–would say no.
Yet the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) provides exactly these sorts of incentives to our nation’s veterans. Sadly, a program with good intentions has yielded a series of perverse incentives that reward illness, encourage patients to view themselves as incapacitated, and poison the relationships between patients and their caregivers.
Veterans who use the VA are either Poor or Suffer from a Service-Connected injury
VA medical care and benefits are provided at virtually no cost to veterans who meet eligibility requirements. To qualify, a veteran must either be “poor” (annual income below about $19,000 for a couple) or must suffer from a “service-connected” (SC) injury or disability. SC injuries and disabilities are medical problems incurred or aggravated during or shortly after a period of military service.
The Birth of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder – an Ultra-Conservative View
For decades, the VA has recognized disorders associated with severe disturbances in thought (e.g., schizophrenia) and mood (e.g., manic-depressive illness) as potential sources of SC disability. Research over the past two decades has helped define another type of trauma-related mental disturbance–one that results from the experience of a catastrophic event that need not involve physical injury. While some of the earlier psychiatric literature contains references to “shell shock” and “war neurosis,” these conditions were officially recognized in the American Psychiatric Association’s 1980 diagnostic manual as “post-traumatic stress disorder” (PTSD).
Someone with PTSD does not evince gross disturbances of thought or mood. Instead, a PTSD sufferer persistently re-experiences (while awake or asleep) a horrible event he has witnessed, avoids stimuli reminiscent of the event, is emotionally unresponsive, and experiences persistent physiological arousal. PTSD can result from non-war experiences (it is often encountered in rape victims, for example), but seems particularly prevalent among Vietnam veterans.
As noted above, a service-connected disorder makes veterans eligible for free medical care at VA hospitals. It also can entitle them to disability compensation. In 1991, the VA paid out nearly $10 billion in compensation to more than 2 million veterans with SC disabilities, approximately 300,000 of whom had significant psychiatric disabilities.
As of mid-1993, compensation ranged from $85 to as much as $1,730 a month
The amount of compensation depends on a veteran’s social and work impairment, as determined by one of the VA’s Regional Office Rating Boards. Psychiatric disability is rated at six levels, from 0 percent (which confers eligibility for treatment but no monetary compensation) to 100 percent. As of mid-1993, compensation ranged from $85 to as much as $1,730 a month. Time missed from work and loss in work efficiency is two of the most important factors considered in determining disability levels.
Veterans with spouses and children receive additional funds, and compensation is adjusted each year for inflation. These payments do not reduce a veteran’s other disability or retirement benefits, although they do reduce Social Security Supplemental Income. Disability compensation is exempt from federal and local taxes; thus, a single veteran receiving 100 percent SC benefits receives the same after-tax income as a Cincinnati, Ohio resident who earns $30,040 a year.
The VA Claims Processing System can be Simple or Complex to Maneuver Through
The process of obtaining SC compensation can be simple or complex. Veterans file their initial claims at VA regional offices, and local Rating Boards make decisions based on the evidence supplied (e.g., military service records, work records, medical treatment records, and results of medical disability examinations). If a veteran disagrees with a decision, he can appeal to the local board, and if he disagrees with its decision, he can appeal to the Board of Veterans Appeals (BVA).
If this fails, he can ask the BVA to reconsider, or have the decision reviewed by the Court of Veterans Appeals (CVA), or simply initiate a new claim with the Regional Office Rating Board. Each year, veterans file more than 600,000 disability benefit claims. The VA grants about half of these; of those that are rejected, about one-fifth are appealed. There is no limit on how many times a veteran may submit a claim. Furthermore, each time a veteran submits new evidence in support of his claim, he is entitled to all procedural rights accorded initial claimants. New evidence might include documentation of inability to work or records of recent hospitalization.
Such documentation is only one way in which a veteran’s level of functioning and course of psychiatric treatment may alter his compensation long after the time he sustained a service-related disability. If, for instance, a veteran is partially (less than 100 percent) disabled, but is hospitalized for more than twenty days for an SC-related problem, he will be deemed totally disabled for that period and receive one month’s compensation at the 100 percent SC rate. There is little financial incentive for patients to leave a VA hospital. The care is free, and is provided by government-salaried physicians who are not pressured (by insurance company reviewers, for example) to discharge patients expeditiously.
The result of the VA’s cost-free hospital treatment and its disability compensation is that veterans are provided with financial incentives to use inpatient psychiatric services frequently and for lengthy periods. Veterans are, in effect, encouraged to be (or appear) ill and unable to work or function socially. Unsurprisingly, one commonly finds that the overwhelming majority of Vietnam combat veterans undergoing psychiatric inpatient treatment at VA hospitals have applied for disability compensation. Veterans who are new to the system and unaware of the financial incentives quickly learn from fellow patients and from benefits counselors.
Who are these Veterans?
As noted above, current eligibility rules restrict the use of VA facilities to veterans who have SC disabilities or are poor. About 90 percent of current VA patients are men, a large portion of them Vietnam-era veterans who enlisted or were drafted at a time when people with financial means, college prospects, or other social advantages tended to avoid military service.
Consequently, the VA inpatient psychiatric population does not constitute a typical cross-section of the population, nor even a typical group of randomly selected veterans. A disproportionate number of veterans who receive psychiatric treatment at VA hospitals were abused or had behavioral problems as children, dropped out of high school, joined the service at a young age, have limited intellectual and work skills, have serious substance-abuse problems, or have a history of poor work habits.
Aspects of this Biased Report that Most Likely are being applied TODAY in 2010
These veterans represent that segment of the population most affected by a changing economy, in which high-paying manufacturing jobs (and other high-paying jobs traditionally performed by men with limited job skills and no college degrees) are becoming increasingly scarce. Many hospitalized VA patients can hope to compete only poorly in today’s job market, and so have very limited financial prospects. The typical psychiatric inpatient, even if he had a strong desire to work, would have very little hope of obtaining employment that would give him an income as high as 100 percent SC status. 
As Professor Susan Estroff has pointed out, seeking disability compensation may not represent an outcome of illness so much as a rational choice of income strategy. For many patients, being in the hospital compares favorably to being elsewhere. Many patients are homeless, or have very little contact with caring family or other sources of social support, or have trouble getting along with those with whom they live, or live in lonely, destitute, uncomfortable circumstances.
In the hospital, by contrast, their past service to country is recognized (so that being hospitalized gives them a sense of being valued), their needs for food, clothing, and shelter are met without cost or effort, medical and nursing staff address them respectfully and express interest in them, their own ability to occupy their time is supplemented by structured recreational and therapeutic activity, and they have the companionship of other patients.
For some, the VA satisfies unconscious needs to be nurtured and to be dependent, while for others the VA provides a target for feelings of deprivation and rage that would otherwise be overwhelming. For many veterans, their time at war was the most meaningful period of their lives. Coming to the hospital, being among fellow veterans, and exchanging stories give them a chance to re-experience the bonhomie and sense of purpose they felt as young warriors.
Tempting Unfortunate Veterans with Money
Our government surely does worse things than tempting unfortunate veterans with money, and occasionally succoring them in hospitals. Why, then, is the problem so serious?
The answer is that these perverse incentives to be sick and not care for oneself represent the antithesis of good psychiatric treatment. Psychiatrists recognize, of course, that people are flawed and vulnerable and may reach points in their lives where they are unable to manage without the intensive emotional, physical, and financial support that hospitalization provides. But the most general aim of psychiatric care–the aim that unites the variety of treatments psychiatry now offers–is to foster personal autonomy and responsibility.
The VA Disability Benefit System is an Incentive Not to Work
A disability-benefit system that makes it financially attractive to be too ill to work is contrary to psychiatry’s therapeutic goals. So is a treatment system that sometimes simply satisfies physical and emotional needs without encouraging patients to learn how to satisfy those needs independently.
Researchers have devoted some attention to the ways in which financial incentives might tempt VA patients to behave or report their symptoms, and to the possible effects on psychiatric outcomes.
Vietnam Combat Veterans Over-Report their symptoms
Psychologist Lee Hyer and colleagues have published a number of studies describing the tendency of Vietnam combat veterans to “over-report” their symptoms. The researchers speculate that an important reason for this over-reporting is the secondary gain involved. The VA system “rewards” persons for existing psychopathology. As one Vietnam veteran put it: “The object is convince people you are hopeless. When this occurs they both believe you and then help you with compensation.”
A 1992 study in Hospital and Community Psychiatry found that: patients who benefited financially from extended admissions had a significantly greater proportion of hospital stays exceeding 20 days. The system of monetary rewards for veterans with service-connected partial disabilities appears to prolong inpatient stays.
“The Problem Patient in VA Psychiatric Services”
Clinicians generally avoid criticizing patients publicly, but the psychiatrists who organized a 1990 discussion of “The Problem Patient in VA Psychiatric Services” stated quite frankly that patients receive: varying degrees of veterans’ pensions which may support pathological life-styles…. |I~t is a fair observation that certain problematic aspects in the VA system are experienced to a much higher degree than elsewhere, including extraordinary rates of alcohol and drug abuse and character disorder in patients who are adversarial, highly demanding, and have a strong sense of entitlement. Professional reports also document patients’ attempts to feign symptoms of mental disorders, especially PTSD.
Seven out of 175 Veterans Fake symptoms of PTSD
Shortly after the VA recognized PTSD as a compensable disorder, Drs. Edward J. Lynn and Mark Belza speculated that simulated PTSD was “a not uncommon disorder that arose as a consequence of the Vietnam conflict.” The researchers found that 7 of 125 patients admitted to their VA hospital between November 1982 and March 1983 presented feigned symptoms of PTSD; none of these patients had participated in combat, and some had not even been to Vietnam. (This figure does not include other veterans who had experienced combat, but may have exaggerated the severity of their symptoms.) Lynn and Belza noted that clinicians at other VA facilities have corroborated their findings.
Drs. Loren D. Pankrantz and Landy Sparr have published accounts of veterans who fabricated war experience; such behavior is discovered only when clinicians examine military records and realize that the veterans could not have been where they said they were.
Unlike Schizophrenia or Manic-Depression PTSD is easier to Fake
PTSD is unlike schizophrenia or manic-depression, illnesses in which patients suffer gross disturbances in thought or mood that are readily observable and relatively difficult to simulate convincingly for long periods. Clinicians determine the nature, severity, and impact of most PTSD symptoms chiefly by interviewing patients and using psychological test data garnered from patients’ reports.
PTSD may be induced by non-combat traumata, and it can be difficult for clinicians to determine whether a veteran’s difficulties stem from war experiences or from other experiences such as childhood abuse. As with many mental disorders, most PTSD symptoms are not pathognomonic: persons who abuse alcohol or drugs, are depressed, or have constellations of behavior and character traits that psychiatrists’ term “personality disorders” share many of the same symptoms as PTSD sufferers.
Dr. Stephen Salloway and his colleagues, for example, have described how a [homeless] veteran who “had been hospitalized in a number of VA hospitals over the years and had extensive exposure to Vietnam veterans being treated for PTSD,” but who himself had an antisocial personality disorder and alcohol and heroin abuse problems, used his knowledge of PTSD to deceive professional staff and obtain controlled substances and shelter. Mental health researchers have difficulty determining the extent of feigned illness among veterans reporting PTSD symptoms.
Veterans Today Editorial Comment: Repeat a lie enough it becomes truth. Note that throughout this article the terminology “difficulty determining the extent of feigned illness among veterans reporting PTSD symptoms is used excessively.
Potential Financial Compensation Does Induce Veterans to Exaggerate PTSD
A report in the Journal of Traumatic Stress, for example, considered whether potential financial compensation induced non-SC Vietnam combat veterans to exaggerate PTSD symptoms on a standardized psychological test. The authors concluded that it did not. However, they reached this conclusion by comparing the non-SC veterans’ test scores to those of two other groups of veterans, most of whom were not fully service-connected and who therefore would also have had reasons to exaggerate symptoms. Moreover, all three groups had test scores that strongly suggested the veterans were exaggerating. Hyer and colleagues believe that financial incentives play an important role in veterans’ behavior, and suggest that VA clinicians may eventually accept complaining, exaggeration, and over reporting of symptoms as features of PTSD itself. “It is unclear whether this ‘really’ represents greater psychopathology or a response style independent of psychopathology….”
The existence of such incentives does not mean that patients’ acts are governed only by those incentives. My experience suggests that the vast majority of VA psychiatric inpatients come to the hospital suffering from serious emotional problems. But the financial incentives insidiously alter patients’ perceptions of those problems, their relationships with health care professionals, and their view of themselves. Conversations with colleagues across the nation confirm my personal observations. Here are some illustrations:
* Physicians and nurses are aware of the benefits to patients of hospitalization, and often cannot help but wonder whether reports of symptoms reflect actual problems or problems that are factitious or malingered. No good clinician wants to discharge a suicidal patient, or withhold needed treatment, but ambiguity about a patient’s motives can increase these kinds of errors. Suspicion about motives eventually leads to the cynicism and disrespectful attitudes toward patients that are very common among physicians who have trained in VA medical centers.
Some VA Staff have a Negative Attitude toward Vets making more money than them
Other staff who work with patients are affected by the veterans’ [monetary] incentives as well. As Estroff has documented, VA workers are often compensated less than patients. And these workers, unlike their patients, must endure the frustrations of employment to make a living.
* Inappropriate incentives also lead clinicians to urge patients to solve problems in ways that undermine their autonomy and responsibility. One of my colleagues urged a 50 percent SC veteran who was severely depressed and facing bankruptcy to seek 100 percent service connection as a partial solution to the financial problems that were tormenting him. Another patient who very much wanted to work was urged to seek increased compensation rather than cope with the challenges of a job that his physician deemed “highly stressful”–a paper route.
Veterans are good at Hustling the system
Patients are very aware of the connection between remaining sick and remaining eligible for compensation. They frequently exercise their right to obtain copies of their hospital records and to petition the VA to have the contents emended. Patients regularly exchange information about increasing compensation and about their success at hustling the system. Patients occasionally refuse diagnostic studies or complain about their results because they are afraid a diagnostic change will eliminate their compensation. They ascribe all of their problems to their SC diagnoses and want physicians to do so, too. (One veteran who was hospitalized largely because he was planning to kill a relative became furious with me when his discharge papers listed a diagnosis of “interpersonal problems” rather than his SC psychiatric disorder. Although he had displayed no symptoms of the disorder while hospitalized, he thought the alternate diagnosis might threaten his 100 percent SC compensation, to which, he told me, his six years’ service to his country had entitled him.)
* As noted above, twenty-one days of hospitalization entitles a patient to receive a month of 100 percent SC compensation. This leads to a lengthening of the inpatient stays of patients with partial disability ratings. Dr. Raymond Pary and his colleagues speculate that the financial incentives operate discreetly, with patients bringing up new complaints to lengthen hospitalization, or physicians allowing patients to stay out of sympathy or a desire to avoid “confrontation with an irate veteran.” My experience suggests that the process isn’t always subtle. Patients often protest being discharged expeditiously, and explicitly cite the twenty-one day provision and their need for money as reasons for not leaving sooner.
They are sometimes enraged that their doctors are ignoring an important facet of their overall well-being. Shrewder patients complain of severe symptoms for three weeks, but report rapid resolution of their symptoms on or about their twenty-second day of hospitalization. Some patients in financial trouble report suicidal intent in order to have them admitted, and continue to report this for three weeks even though they appear okay; the suicidal intent fades after three weeks. At the time of discharge, some patients insist that their doctors cite their SC diagnosis as the main reason for hospitalization so that they can be sure to collect 100 percent SC compensation for the month.
Oftentimes, years of unemployment leave persons sincerely believing they cannot work. Disability compensation systems encourage patients to view all their difficulties as “health problems,” and provide alternatives to conventional employment that encourage patients to view their non-work as a result of their medical status. “Their not working is seen as both symptom and proof of their disabilities and deficits,” explains Estroff.
Many unemployed SC veterans see no good reason to try to resume working.
It would be very hard for most of them to find jobs as remunerative and untroubling as receiving 100 percent SC compensation, and they believe that taking a job might result in their losing disability income after their next review. Estroff describes one veteran who was reluctant to pursue a writing career because: if I make it, then they might take away my VA money. And I can’t be sure about working but I can be sure about the VA. All I have to do is keep being me and not working. So I guess I’m better off just leaving well enough alone.
Estroff also quotes a letter written to the VA by a community treatment organization–it reported that encouraging veterans to work was:
Difficult, not because of the disabilities and disorders they possess, but because of the large veterans’ disability pensions that they have and are receiving…. Over and over again we have heard these men talk of their unwillingness to participate in employment efforts because they do receive the money.
* Attaining 100 percent SC status represents an important symbolic achievement for some veterans, who declare their status proudly. Although they may not get the kind of recognition and satisfaction that work provides, their past sacrifices are vindicated by the highest level of disability compensation that the VA offers. Disability reviews and the threat of disability reduction cause some patients great anxiety, and they sometimes seek hospitalization in response (perhaps with the unconscious intent of convincing the review board and themselves that they are still disabled). Studies of civil litigants alleging emotional or physical injury have found that litigation itself can be very stressful, and that level of functioning is positively correlated with the time elapsed since the end of litigation and negatively correlated with the duration of litigation. The VA’s system thus represents the worst possible approach to handling disability claims, since a veteran can reapply endlessly and his claim can be reviewed for up to twenty years after disability is established.
“V-A-cations.”
* Patients regularly seek hospitalization for inappropriate reasons: to escape the deprivation and loneliness they experience in their daily lives; to get away from the criticisms, expectations, or demands of their wives and children; to hide from criminal associates; and to have food and shelter when they aren’t getting along with family or have run out of money. (Patients know enough not to state these reasons at the time of admission; they claim that they plan to kill themselves or someone else if not admitted. These tactics are often successful, because mental health professionals have no special ability to distinguish those patients who really would harm themselves from those who feel terrible but would not.) Many patients experience “elevator cures”: their countenances brighten and their symptoms disappear as they are transported up to the hospital wards. Many patients have limited interest in participating in treatment activities. A patient of mine once acknowledged that being in a hotel would satisfy his needs just as well as being in the hospital, but “this is free and I’m entitled to it.” Colleagues tell me that such patients frequent many VA centers and their hospitalizations are termed “V-A-cations.”
Like other public-sector psychiatric facilities,
VA hospitals struggle with patients who have genuine mental conditions that require hospitalization, who get well while hospitalized, but then stop taking their medication and begin deteriorating shortly after discharge. Some patients are admitted again and again while intoxicated (sometimes with drugs or alcohol purchased with their disability funds), and repeatedly induce or exacerbate psychiatric symptoms through drug use. Mental health professionals term this process the “revolving door” syndrome. VA patients and their families may have little incentive to break this cycle, for it often has emotional and financial rewards: troublesome, ill relatives are hospitalized, so their families do not have to deal with them–but families do retain the veteran’s SC income. The very real problems just described are, to my mind, of less consequence than the moral dilemmas that are created. Persons faced with incentives to be sick come to believe sincerely that they are sick. It is profoundly contrary to veterans’ interests to construct a health care system in which doctors expect patients to get well but patients have good reasons to feel ill. In medical treatment generally, and especially in psychiatric treatment, an honest, trusting relationship between doctor and patient is crucial. It is disrespectful to patients and physicians to place them in a treatment relationship in which there is substantial potential for mutual distrust and frustration. Some simple solutions
It would be far wiser to recognize forthrightly the financial and social forces affecting patients, to recognize that the moral dilemmas created by these forces are not amenable to clinical interventions alone, and to recognize that health care systems with such perverse incentives can make treatment impossible. Recognizing that these problems exist is the first step in solving them. Making some or all of the following changes would reduce incentives for patients to act or remain ill, and would at the same time improve the treatment atmosphere for psychiatric patients at VA medical centers.
* The financial reward for remaining hospitalized over twenty days should be eliminated. The fact that a veteran may need periodic hospitalization and so lose income should be factored into the veteran’s fixed disability payment.
* Findings of psychological injury and disability level should be permanent, once a veteran has accepted a disability payment. In civil litigation, persons who successfully sue for psychological injuries receive a lump sum once legal action has concluded. Civil litigants have their day in court, receive a judgment and, once they accept that judgment as final, go on with their lives. Veterans deserve the same sort of finality in their disability determination process. If veterans, rating boards, and reviewing agencies all knew that disability judgments, once accepted, would be final, all parties would have an increased interest in ensuring that disabilities were well-documented and that the disability determination process was accurate and fair. It may be unwise to award some veterans lump sums, lest they use their money foolishly (e.g., throw it away or buy drugs) and leave themselves destitute; they might better have their funds administered by a trustee, or paid monthly, as is currently the case. But all psychiatrically disabled veterans should understand that getting better will not reduce their income.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0377/is_n114/ai_15139612/pg_7/#comments
Veterans Today Editorial Comment: As noted above, criminals faking Veterans’ status using fake discharge papers is the real deal, in fact fakes who have served but elaborate their service or exaggerate their PTSD or other ailments is a real problem. However, when we are talking 48 convictions for fraud out of the millions of Veterans who use the VA system, one can see why we’ve used a few graphics in this presentation as SATIRE moking those Social Scientist who exaggerate just how bad the prolbem is or how much money is wasted by the VA. (Let’s say in comparison to the billions wasted by the Pentagon, and let’s not forget the priviledge these same critics of Veterans get from being able to experiment on us without even having to serve in combat beside us).
The point is that claims of America’s Veterans living off the VA to make money are just as exaggerated as the VERY FEW fake Vets they wish to expose. The sorry fact may be that those having this hostile view of America’s Veterans, even within the Veteran community, could far outnumber those Vets who are malingerers.
We at Veterans Today believe that critics of a VA system that is being overly generous to our nation’s Veterans continue to hold this negative and hostile anti-Veteran attitude today. Unfortunately a few still work for the Department of Veterans Affairs, pray fully precious few, but fortunately most of the folks giving this biased anti-Veteran testimony have retired from the VA or moved onto other vocations better fitting this attitude hopefully not working with or experimenting on Veterans.
We are not over reacting here, every study mentioned in this hit piece, every report, every examination would not be possible without the ability to experiment on America’s Veterans of War. By definition a Social Psychologist or Psychiatrist that does studies on Veterans (voluntarily or involuntarily done or unbeknown to the Veteran is an experiment in social science). Frankly, if experimenting on us could deliver something positive besides belittling and stereotyping us, I for one would not have a problem with being a Guinea Pig.
This lame attempt at lumping Veterans receiving various ratings for PTSD with overall compensation received by Veterans for SC disabilities is a SHAM, although about 300,000 are mentioned as having ‘significant psychiatric disabilities’ the percentage of the $10 billion dollars quoted going to that 300,000 is conveniently omitted. Although of course the amounts would vary today and most likely be higher due to adjustment for inflation and COLA, what the reporter conveniently or intentionally leaves out is the fact that Veterans are MEANS TESTED and were being means tested in 1994 to be placed on categories based on ability to pay. Meaning there were whole classes of Veterans using the VA in between POOR and Service-Connected. Throw in the closing of military bases and military base hospitals before September 11, and you have an entirely new class of Vets forced to use the VA – Military Retirees. This biased anti-Veteran report gives the illusion that Disabled Veterans just like Military Retirees get FREE HEALTH CARE FOR LIFE, and neither group does, they pay co-pays for their medical care.
The very wording used by these few doctors is the same wording used by Mr. Allan Breed in his 2010 Associated Press Hit Piece on Veterans faking PTSD potentially being a growing problem among both young and older Veterans of War. It would be interesting to note that MOST of these hostile critics of Veterans has ever been to war.
Where and Who they are Today-Those Who View America’s Veterans as Unfortuate
Dr. Susan Estroff is no longer with the Department of Veterans Affairs but is now (2010) a Professor, Social Medicine and Adjunct Professor, Anthropology and Psychiatry at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine. Her primarily interested has been in the socio-cultural forces that influence the biographical experiences of persons with disabling chronic illnesses. Some of the socio-cultural factors that have occupied her attention in research are: representations of illness and identity; individual economies of disability; the impact of disability income on identity and illness trajectory; and how use of mental health or psychiatric services influences self labeling and illness accounts among persons with major psychiatric disorders.
She is also interested in exploring how interpersonal and contextual factors influence the occurrence of violence by persons with serious mental illnesses, as well as how such violence is conceived of and operationalized by researchers with varied agendas and training. The study of persons with serious mental illness has occupied most of her research career. Her current work branches out to the study of cultural influences on consent for experimental maternal fetal surgery, and an analysis of community based stigma reduction strategies.
Lee Hyer, EdD, ABPP is today a Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey—Robert Wood Johnson Medical School. He is the director of a geriatric clinic at the University Behavioral Health Care of UMDNJ and directs geropsychology training at UMDNJ. He is the director of a geriatric team that includes geropsychiatry fellows, geropsychology fellows, psychology interns, and graduate students at Rutgers’ Graduate School of Applied and Professional Psychology and the Department of Psychology. Clinical work involves nursing homes, assisted living facilities, and outpatient clinics, as well as primary care clinics.
Current research includes neuropsychology profiles and memory retraining in dementia, cognitive behavioral therapy in LTC facilities, heart rate variability, and depression and anxiety disorder patterns in older adults. He is the author of over 180 articles and book chapters, and has written two other books. He is a Fellow in American Psychological Association (APA) and Gerontological Society of America (GSA) and has received awards from these organizations, as well as the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and UMDNJ.
Short URL: http://www.veteranstoday.com/?p=31325
Posted by Robert L. Hanafin on May 14 2010, With 0 Reads, Filed under Veterans Affairs. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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Hostile Attitude toward America's Veterans Using the VA is Nothing ……
I found your entry interesting do I’ve added a Trackback to it on my weblog
…
I WILL ______ ALLEN BREEDS SORRY MOFO ASS MYSELF, AND SEE IF HE DEVELOPS SOME SYMPTOMS, SO THAT HE CAN REALLY RELATE TO TRAUMA …..REALLY I WANT TO _____ HIS SORRY ASS AROUND THE BLOCK SOOOOO WHICH WAY DID HE GO?????
Paul,
Sorry Bro, we can see where quite a few Vets and supporters would like to take Allan Breed into combat with them per se, but despite differences of opinion the collective WE may have with Mr. Breed and his ilk at the Associated Press, WE cannot condone violence against Allan or anyone else who shares his opinions about America’s Veterans.
If we cannot draft the Allan Breeds of America and send them to Iraq and Afghanistan to get a feel of trauma themselves heck at least send them through Virtual Iraq, Virtual Afghanistan, or Virtual Vietnam to IMAGINE what combat, seeing folks blown away really is like.
Of course these Virtual Reality simulators or Iraq and Afghanistan allow players to shot and kill but there is nothing like the real deal.
Bobby Hanafin
The Mustang Major
[...] Hostile Attitude toward America's Veterans Using the VA is Nothing … [...]
Good Morning Folks,
A good article, but it missed a few points.
First off. The Combat Wounded with physical injuries. The VA is sorely lacking in resources to treat these veterans, especially as time goes on and the country enters an era where soldiers are not coming back missing body parts.
The sad thing is it takes a war for the VA to start paying attention to amputees, burn injuries, head wounds, etc. Myself and other veterans who need prosthetic devices and treatment for amputations have a had time getting the correct care at the VA.
It was not unusual for a Combat Wounded PH holder to be told that for budget reasons he/she can’t get an new device or the corrective surgery to reform a stump or in my case to remove metal parts uses to patch up my skull that were extruding through an eye socket, I often had to look in the mirror and cut wire and screen with common electrical dykes and pick screws out with a needle nose, this went on for 13 years before finally getting the corrective surgery.
I have an appointment next week with the prothetic clinic, I have walked out of the past three appointment because the Doctor who was to see me had never seen or dealt with the medical condition I have which requires the periodic replacement of a part. The procedure in question I have to have my son do, he is an auto mechanic. I would bet a $100.00, and I’m not the gambling type, that on Thursday I will walk out again. This condition should be un-excusable but it is sadly routine.
The VA system is set up as a teaching institution to train young Doctors. Many of the Combat Wounds and physical problems associated with combat are very uncommon out side of war zones. In reality there are few, very few actual Combat Wounded Veterans who the VA sees. The sad truth is that the actuarial table for those with what use to be referred to as “Gross Combat Wounds” is not kind to them. The likely hood is that a Veteran with these types of injuries will not live to see the 20th. Anniversary of their Combat Wound.
The above is not all the VA’s fault of course. It has been my personal observation among my Combat Wounded peers, that they often select self destructive life styles that greatly aid in shortening their lives. The VA could go a long way in prolonging there Veterans lives but it’s not their mission, the Veteran has to come to the VA which quite often is very unwelcoming, the VA doesn’t seek out the Combat Wounded Veteran, in fact the VA goes to great effort to integrate all Veterans into a single group with little or no distinction between those wounded in combat and those that were injured while drunk in an automobile accident at Fr. Bragg. This is rather insulting to the man or woman who was wounded in combat holds a Purple Heart, but there are so few of us we can be blown off.
Beside the under laying fact is that the sooner a Combat Wounded Veteran dies the sooner the money stops. Proper caring of these patients will just keep the Disability Checks going out.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
VETERANS TODAY EDITORIAL COMMENT:
Thanks for the feedback and insight Brother Skinner!
A few comments to elaborate and clarify a few of your points.
You mention that younger troops or Vets are not coming back missing body parts, and we don’t have the exact figures, but we would have to disagree that younger Vets are not coming back with missing body parts.
1. They may not be showing up in record numbers at your VA Hospital, but that may be due to various factors. However, although the trademark wound of this war is TBI, the body armor worn by our troops is not guarantee against amputations. That said there is both a generational and PRIORITY influence at work here – medical and prosthetic devices and treatment for amputations has come a very long way since Vietnam or even the Gulf War.
2. I’d say however such technology advanced within the Department of Defense most likely IS NOT being promoted or used withing the VA system itself for obvious reasons.
If the services can repair and return a wounded warrior to active duty even if it means not returning to combat, I’m of the thought the will and can do so. The prosthetic and even Mental Health advances within the active duty military can enable some troops to stay on active duty to finish their careers if they so decide, something mostly unheard of during or after Vietnam.
What is really missing is that the same emphasis, funding, and passion being applied by DOD for force readiness to fight wars and handle endless deployments IS NOT being applied to the VA system once troops choose or are forced to become REAL VETERANS.
I’m of the humble belief that DOD and the VA medical systems not only need to work more closely together to place just as much emphasis on sending broken troops back to civilian society as we do sending them back on deployments. The same level of technological advancement should be appearing in the VA and as you confirm IT IS NOT. I believe you
Frankly, like all generations before the only way the technology and funding will be equitable for both the VA and DOD is for Veterans groups to DEMAND such equity. Equitable medical treatment of active duty wounded and Veteran wounded must be on a par, but very few established Veterans Service Organizations are seriously dealing with this YET, but they eventually will be or be replaced by younger, recently founded Veterans groups.
You also say that the sad thing is it takes a war for the VA to start paying attention to amputees, burn injuries, head wounds, etc. Myself and other veterans who need prosthetic devices and treatment for amputations have had a hard time getting the correct care at the VA.
Well again that is because the funding priorities when your were on active duty are not the same once the services no longer need you, or can no longer use you.
FOR BUDGET REASONS:
Lastly, you state that, It was not unusual for a Combat Wounded PH holder to be told that ‘for budget reasons’ he/she can’t get an new device or the corrective surgery to reform a stump or in your case to remove metal parts used to patch up your skull that were extruding through an eye socket, You often had to look in the mirror and cut wire and screen with common electrical dykes and pick screws out with a needle nose, this went on for 13 years before finally getting the corrective surgery.”
Again, we no shit believe you. However, those three words “FOR BUDGET REASONS” should never again be spoken in Congress, by any sincere Veterans Service Organization, by any political party, by any, and I mean any employee of the Department of Veterans Affairs or Department of Defense medical community.
But, Byron it is up to US, you, me, the millions of Veterans, including those who refuse to use, cannot use, or do not use the VA system to DEMAND that those three sinful words never again be spoken.
CAN WE DO THAT?
Can the collective WE say with a straight face, YO, time out when it comes to buying the weapons of war, financing the logistics of war, funding the contracts so war profiteers can make a profit out of war that these three words are rarely to never spoken, we refuse to hear them spoken about the Department of Veterans Affairs.
Back in the day (1960s) the VA upper management and political appointee system was dominated by the well established Veterans Service Organizations with the American Legion and VFW being big players while the Disabled American Veterans brought up the rear (meaning they had little management influence over the Veterans Administration).
Once the VA became an Executive Branch cabinet position, upper management and political appointees were decided and dominated by the partisan political views of political parties.
I really do not know what the answer is but having selective Veteran groups or politicians running the VA is not a GREAT IDEA.
Any thoughts on how to correct this revolving door approach to managing the VA without dismantling the system?
One thought comes to my mind that most Vets will disagree with. Place the VA under Pentagon control and command plus COMBINE funding so that Veterans funding is considered DEFENSE FUNDING!!!
“One thought comes to my mind that most Vets will disagree with. Place the VA under Pentagon control and command plus COMBINE funding so that Veterans funding is considered DEFENSE FUNDING!!!”
THAT is an OUTSTANDING IDEA! It could make a tremendous difference.
Tom Texas Vet, First Cav
My beloved Lt. Colonel, USAF Retired, who went to be with his Comrades (shot down in WWII/Korea/twice in the water/twice lost his crew a) two years ago was raised in the country and in very good emotional condition until his trauma hit twice a -he spent his entire life in pain and suffering – waking at night crying, and of course, never would he tell his Air Force buddies his suffering – he retired and purchased a liquor store until he went to be with our Higher Power
For The War Widows
I have no idea where the disrespect of veterans is taking place. However, I have dealt with the VA here in Yuma, AZ and down in Tucson. I have nothing but respect for the professionals who work in these facilities.
May best friend has just been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. Our trips to the hospital in Tucson, other that the travel, were productive and the treatment by the doctors there were exceptional. They even took the time to talk with me though I am not a relative.
I think this story has been over blown when it comes to most of the medical professionals.
Alan Breed is a fucking moron, not to mention coward. I would like to personally “educate” this little shit ball in the fine art of combat. I wonder how long it would take the little ass hole to shit himself under fire. Not too long I would guess.
THANK YOU for saying so well what I am thinking… Yet in much kinder terms.
My husband served as a doorgunner on a Huey UH-1 helicopter in the Vietnam War and his 15 year attempt to get compensation… he got called a liar, faker, mentally ill, beaten hy his dad-(he wasn’t) and nearly killed by VA clinic doctors three times… His attempt to get benefits perfectfully illustrates this article. I was fortunate to of found his commander who remembered him and verified my husband’s intensive combat service. We just recently just got back from his troop in Vietnam’s reunion… turns out that my husband also served on Night Hawk missions on a gunship quite often and they got shot up so bad so often… (one time they came in with 62 bullet holes… duct tape painted over does wonders)… they still don’t know how they all
lived. All he tried to do was tell the VA the truth and this
was the way he was treated… THIS IS WRONG!
These malicious attitudes of the employees paid to assist and provide services to veterans is not isolated to only the VA. I have received the same attitude and treatment from all avenues and levels of the government for 12 years. I will lose my home in two weeks without receiving one bit of assistance for the agency prospering off my predicament. I have also once again been denied treatment from the VHA for my service connected disability. With my last few dollars I have paid for fingerprinting and official transcripts to be provided to the federal government so they can once again tell me I am not qualified or selected to do the work I have performed for 30 years, even though I’ll obtain my Master’s degree in two more days as well.
Our government and it’s representatives consider us disposable and undeserving. It does not matter if only a few have this attitude. They are the bottle-neck and do not meet the qualifications of the position which is to provide quality service to veterans.
I question why the 1993 100% SC payments of $1730 were used when the 2010 100% single veteran SC payments are $2673.That is a huge difference but not when inflation is figured in.
I commented on the last article a week ago at having experienced this very same thing and VT deleted it.Why is it that VT refuses to publish a great many comments that disagree with their own beliefs.That is hardly good journalism under any definition.
I have always thought of VA compensation as protection payments. Can you imagine what would happen if the government stopped takeing care of its veterans, alot of us would have nothing to loose if we didn’t have VA assistance. I for one would have a hit list and be more then ready and able to fill it. Veterans had a march on Washington after WWI, do you think their ready for another one? I think not.
Major Bobby, personally, the VA Medical staff here in Houston is outstanding. If anything, they are to me, almost over-protective. And to top it all off, they are really nice people.
T Texas Vet
Major Bobby — as soon as I posted my reply, I ran into the exact opposite at the VA compared to what I was bragging about. People can have bad hair days, but this was a terrible, racist situation created by a Houston VA worker. This isn’t what we put our lives on the line for. I got so mad I could spit.
Tom
Malingering has been a major problem affecting the morale and readiness of the Armed Forces since it’s inception,why is it so hard to think that it continues on in to civilian life especially if there is a pot of gold at the end of the VA rainbow?
Our veterans learn well the value of malingering and the payoff.To think that all of the veterans are a lily white bunch of innocents is indeed a naive impression.I can show anybody who is interested the scope of medical fakery on a day by day basis.
What was true in 194 was also true in 1866 and 2010.The truth that most Viet Nam vets don’t want heard too loudly is that many came back drug addicts and alcoholics.There is no doubt that some experience true PTSD especially those who fragged their key NCOs or Officers while under the influence of some mind altering drug..
What’s so funny about all these professionsl ass holes is, that they make a living and spend so much time on finding all this negitive crap… Show me any Government department, or service that doesn’t have loopholes… They put them there for a reason… And we know there are prople that abuse the system… Hell look at the asses in Washington, talk about abuse…
What pisses me off about all the doctors and who ever that write this shit is why aren’t they spending more time and energy trying to help the Veterans and fix the VA system for the Veterans that really need the help… Sure there will be abuse, the Government wants it to be like that other wise there wouldn’t be any …
That’s ok, lets keep being negitive towards us Veterans, and lets just close the VA hospitals and stop the cash flow, and see if that helps recrutement for our military so that our young people can join up to fight the bullshit wars for the fat cats in Washington…
I’d like that asshole who said that some veterans make so much money that the VA hospital staff looks down on them.. I get a whole $655.00 a fucking month for the past 8 years, I’m getting rich here, thank you VA..
Personally I know first had about PTSD and what I go through, I see a head Doctor every three months and their big answer to everything is take this pill twice a day… One thing you can say about the VA health care system is they do have great drugs…. Don’t fix the problems, just medicate them…
Everone whats to spend time putting down the very people that actually live thorugh experiences not having any idea what it’s like.. It’s easier to kill the problem than to treat it..
these doctors who have nothing better to do than come up with blaming people who put their life on the line to protect there sorry???? if there are so many faking the ptsd then that tells me they need to overhaul the veteran physicians in psychiatry. because they are also wrong in their diagnosis of the ptsd.
no the way i see it is the va is now trying to turn things around on the vietnam veterans. try to get the people to be like when we came home from now and was so mistreated. but now the people are to smart to fall for their tricks because many today have sons from the vietnam times and from desert storm and iraq.they will not turn on them now that they know the truth.we vietnam veterans may be stupid or have mental issues. but atleast we admit it and don’t try to blame every one else. the va needs to just start doing their jobs correct and then all the rest will fall in place.but as most of us know. once a monkey always a monkey. aybe we should pass the bannanas out to the various va’s around the country.shouldn’t be long before they figure out they are to eat.
I am a Vietnam Era Vet. I called the VA yesterday (Friday, May 14, 2010) and was yelled at, cussed at, and accused of lying about my time in service. Mind you, he admitted that he had TWO copies of my DD214 right on the screen in front of him. Could he read it? NOOOOOO.
There is something most people don’t seem to know. On my ORIGINAL contract when I enlisted into the Army in 1973 is a little paragraph which states, “Service member is guaranteed FULL MEDICAL COVERAGE FOR LIFE.” I don’t get that. No one gets that. If I had that I’d have teeth in my mouth and glasses that were less than 7 years old. I’d also have decent medical care.
Too bad that I’m a female and was actually denied, at one time, access to medical care in Montana because of being a woman!! Maybe I wouldn’t STILL be disabled 25 years after getting out if those folks had done their jobs in first place. I got out – because I was SICK and injured and the doctors were doing absolutely NOTHING about it.
25 years later I am STILL fighting for my rightful service connected disability benefits. I’m also still sick and injured. You folks try raising kids on welfare – after being forced to end a nice MI career!
This article above does not state the REAL problem. Let me help them out.
I have a nephew – he was in basic training for maybe a week or so. He is getting 70% service connected disability because he claims he hurt his knees. He didn’t. But he says he did. He also gets housing paid for, medical for his wife and kids, etc.
THIS is where the problem is. If doctors have a bad attitude (and they do, believe me) maybe it’s because they don’t want to do their jobs! Maybe they need an education!! Maybe they need to be able to tell the fakers from the real deal – but then that would mean they would really have to go to Medical school to begin with.
Maybe they should be fired! Like Scott the VA Rep I talked to yesterday who can’t read.
Rilla
I am a 59 year old Vietnam Combat Veteran. I host a new show ‘PTSD EXPOSED’
at http://www.americaswebradio.com every wednesday at 11:00 a.m. eastern and again at
(same day) 11:00 p.m.
The show is new and resulted from my frustration and anger at the mental health world telling war veterans what they feel and what they have. In the 30 years since the VA was forced to acknowledge PTSD they understand little more today and have developed no successful strategies to resolve PTSD. You present so many valid and true rebuttals that I could write volumes supporting you. You could help me very much in exposing PTSD by coming on the program, I’d be honored to have you. the show is not about me, it is about a voice for the souls, spirits and minds of our veterans. Contact information is on my website, we could your voice.
thanks for what you are doing for our vets and the human spirit.
Mike Orban
VETERANS TODAY EDITORIAL REPLY:
First off, Brother Orban thanks for the invite, and I will be in touch.
Second, I personally an not an expert on PTSD, nor am I an expert on the VA or military medical system for that matter, I’M A STUDENT, an investigator, a researcher.
The vast difference between me and folks who think like these so called well educated PhD and MDs having this anti-Veteran attitude is that I do this for FREE, they get paid beaucoup bucks to well putting it mildly trash Veterans.
That said, I have and do use the VA Hospital mostly for dental today. Being a retired military officer, I have access to active duty military medical facilities.
I have used VA Mental Health service for a short time, a very short time (wink), but frankly use Air Force Mental Health Services today.
I DO NOT HAVE PTSD, DO NOT CLAIM PTSD, AND DO NOT WANT PTSD.
I’m am 100% service-connected, and yes PROUD of it, but not for the reasons stated by these VA experts.
Since you are on the subject of PTSD, though I do not have nor claim it, I have studied it and still do for it is related to what I am treated for.
I’ve even kept up with PTSD developments in the Armed Forces today, for example the use of virtual reality video games (excuse me simulations) to treat active duty troops claiming PTSD. The Army and Air Force claims so much success with this that they are able to allow troops to stay on active duty for a career or return on deployments over and over and over again.
However, I’m not going to knock any treatment or innovations in treatment for PTSD either by the VA or DOD, beats doing nothing. For example, I’m a strong supporter of Service, Assistance, and Companion Dogs for Troops and Vets with PTSD, but I don’t exactly see having a dog, cat, or horse as being an end all for PTSD. I just have mixed feelings about using mind games to treat anyone with Mental Illness, especially someone we might be given a real rifle back to and sending back to Iraq or Afghanistan.
I’m not totally down on virtual reality as a means of treatment in addition to other approaches by all means. However, I’d be Leary of anyone trying to convince our troops or Vets that it is a cure.
Speaking of virtual reality, as for the insignificant number of Vets gaming the VA system for the money I agree with those who responded here that it is the VA’s and DoD’s problem to figure out and checkmate anyone scamming the system or faking PTSD not the responsibility of the entire Veterans’ community to police ourselves.
Rilla, wow babe, That is something no one brings up is the fact that there are woman in the military or were in the military… I know here at the Jerry Pettis VA Hospital in Loma Linda California, they have programs in place and are improving programs just for woman Veterans… But Loma Linda as we call it, is suppost to be one of the best VA Hospitals in the systems… I know first hand that The care I get there has been pretty good compaired the the private hospitals I’ve been in so far, and I’m 60 now.. I wouldn’t want them to do open heart surgery on me like I’ve had done back in 1998, in a regular hospital… But the help for my PTSD, Hearing Loss, Optical, and Defibulator checkups has been good so far… Now up in the words is another deal, I’ve spent as many as 4 days at a time in the wards for my heart and the help in the words is the worst… The nurses from the Philipieans, are the worst I’ve ever had…
I do know that I see more and more woman of all ages in the clinics though so I know that Loma Linda does Have Doctors just for them there… I also know a few guys that are lets say useing the system, but the way I see it after dealing with the VA for 10 years myself, that if they can figure out how to use the system to their advantage, more power to them when you hear or experience how hard it is to deal with the VA as a whole…
I know there was a large group of guys getting over on travel pay, and it took a few trys, but they at Loma Linda figures out a system to weed them out and even made them pay back all the money they thought they got away with..
So there is hope that someday the VA system will get it’s act together and do the job it was set up to do, at 60 I don’t ecpect to see it, but maybe the troops that are fighting now will…
Thanks for caring! I’m hoping to get things figured out myself. And when I do they will have to approve my service connected.
Ft. Harrison, Helena, MT is getting better. But like everything I guess it’s got some work to do.
They still have in my files an Xray (taken almost 20 years ago now) of a 20 year old male. Last week Monday I FINALLY got them to take Xrays of ME. I’m just hoping they put my name on them!
Thanks again! You hang in there! And Welcome Home, Man!
Rilla
Get and KEEP records for everything.
Order your military record. It Can be different than the one you were given. SOMEBODY, (military), can add negative information to your records after you left the military. There is a code that (paraphased) says: “We can add negative information to the veteran’s records under this code that allows it.”
A veteran can be going up against something in their records and have No idea. Ask for complete records… you may also find they are incomplete. Save a copy of everything.
Mr. Robert VNVET:
Thank you for your service. You pointed out good things about the VA system and applaud you for that. But your idea that quote “The nurses from the Philipieans, are the worst I’ve ever had” is a sign of your desperate cry of attention. My wife is a very professional, compassionate, hardworking Registered Nurse for 27 years and all her resume are just full of accolades, awards and recognition. And by the way please, double check you spelling and I am also an OEF Veteran for your information. Hope you get your heart fixed and Good Luck to you.
San Diego must be blessed or I am just lucky as after extensive testing based on my symptoms, it was discovery I had severe problem with heart disease which required major heart surgery at the VA Hospital in La Jolla. I would not, based on the terrific care received, change to any other hospital,MDs or location anywhere in the country.
The care and sensitivity of the staff was shocking as I almost though I was at the Four Seasons Hotel.
My MD Surgery had a backup at all times, my surgeon explained in detail what the process was prior to and after surgery, unconscious in surgery of course, number of hours later returned to my room where more Nurse and Physician care was provided day and night.
Maybe this hospital is the exception but when the volume of patients they handle and the patience and care I outstanding care received and still receive as it is anticipated they will watch my progress for a long time. Currently few years into the recovery process and continuous care continues at the highest level. The patience and assistance and professional care is still at the highest level as far as I am concerned.
My husband had the same wonderful care at our VA hospital. It was before we got there that a VA clinic doctor wanted to order s MRI for his shoulderm, for which he had never had a problem. The doctor was basing this approach on his symptoms: crushing pressure in his chest, shortness of breath and sharp pain radiating from his chest, through his shoulder and down to his elbow… Classic signs of a heart attack. When my husband politely suggested that ge needed a stress test instead… the doctor yelled, “Fine!”, as she waved her hand in his face…. she then scheduled a stress test at the VA hospital for Three Weeks Out and “adjusted” his insulin for his diabetes. Three stressful weeks later… The staff at thr hospital kept my husband after the stress test and performed immediate heart surgery.,, hr had three severely blocked arteries and the artery called, “The Widow Maker” was over 96% blocked. The doctors said that my husband was on the verge of a massive heart attack that he would not of survived. ALSO, it was found out that thr amount of insin that the VA clinic doctor prescribed was TEN TIMES the correct amount and Could zig Easily Killed Him. Two doctors at the hospital said this. There is another time that a VA clinic doctor Insisted thaty husband take a drug he is allergic to. Said they made it better and it would be alright despite that my husband said that it nearly killed him in his twenties. Then the doctor had uy written out of my husband’s chart saying that my husband told him that it gave him GI disturbances as a child. My husband ended up in the Emergency Room with a heart beat over 200. They immediatley transfered the doctor.
These occurances happened both times when he had a viable claim in for PTSD. I posted earlier above briefly about that experience.
Brother and Sister veterans… Just because you have not lived these experiences… dies not mean that they do not exist.
PTSD is not imaginary nor a weakness. Some of the finest and bravest people I know have PTSD, combat type. It is real.
Even if you have never had these experiences, nor understand PTSD..,
at least listen to the voices if your brother and sister veterans that know and have had these experiences.
Together We Stand, Divided We Fall.
If not, then why the heck do we bother to come here and post and exchange information?
What are we really here for?
For ourselves?
OR Each Other?
Fran Lawrence
USMC
Veterans suffer twice in my opinion!
First they suffer the ordeal of battle on the field, both the mental and physical trauma only to come home and have to continue yet a whole new battle, a battle for medical care and benefits not only promised but damn sure earned and very much due!
A recent article: Ks. vet fights for disability claim Tells how a Veteran had a VSO forge a document to prevent the veteran from obtaining benefits. Thankfully the Veteran wasn’t like so many who battle for so long and finally give in. But he could still wait for many more years before his claim is finally settled.
We all know better than anyone that Freedom is not FREE, but why must it be paid for twice over?
First the price is paid with lives and the health of those who served, but then it’s paid again by having to battle the most adversarial governmental agency on the planet!
The mentality of Congress, the VA and the DoD needs to be changed dramatically, no it won’t happen over night, and although I do give a thumbs up to Secretary Shinseki for all his positive efforts, he won’t be able to over come decades of abuse, mismanagement, and a sorely lacking budget, not to mention a staff already engrained with the mentality of all Vets are welfare cases and deny them all.
As much as I’d hope Veterans would really wake up and see that these National Service Organizations aren’t doing anything for them, they will continue to pay their monthly and annual membership fees and hope. But that hope is very mislaid!
The majority of Veterans don’t realize all these organizations national headquarters are paid for courtesy of Congress with Taxpayer Dollars. The higher echelon salaries, office furniture, equipment phone lines, vehicles, medical/dental/eye care coverage all paid for with Taxpayer dollars along with their really sweet retirement plans, and all this on TOP OF they’re military retirement pensions and VA benefits.
So if you really think they’re going to rock the boat and lose such a sweet deal, think again! It’s NOT going to happen.
And to begin to see real change, Veterans, Spouses, Widows and their children need to start to voice their opinions, issues, problems and complaints through Veteran Organizations which has no ties what-so-ever to any Government agency, and have nothing to gain by fighting the VA, Congress, the DoD, and the President.
By exercising your freedom of speech can you lose what precious little benefits and care you have now, NO WAY. Can you gain better benefits, care, facilities, etc. in the long run YOU BET!
Check out your options, do something positive! BE PRO ACTIVE, help yourself, and help your fellow veteran.
YOU EARNED THE RIGHT TO BE CARED FOR AND TO BE COMPENSATED! DO NOT LET THE VA WIN!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VETERANS-FOR-CHANGE/
James L, I’ve talked to a few guys at the Loma Londa Va Hospital where I have to go and they said the same thing about La Jolla and the great service they got there… I’ve had open heart surgery but in Fullerton at St, Judes Hospital, excellent Heart Hospital and it’s been going on 13 years now, but since 2002 I have to go to Loma Linda for all my defibulator check ups and heart checkups.. As well as my PTSD treatments, and the good meds they give me… Good luck with your heart problems, and now that it is connected to Agent Orange I hope your getting All the help and compansation for it.. I’m still dealing with the VA on that through a lawyer now…
[...] Hostile Attitude toward America’s Veterans Using the VA is Nothing New : Veterans Today [...]
The VA in Washington, DC, which calls itself the “Flagship” of VAMC’s, is the most horrible I have ever witnessed. I am a 100% combat wounded vet, with PTSD. I was being seen on the psych floor, in the PHP, when I became disruptive in a community meeting of drugged out vets, who had never heard of Roberts Rules of Order. The pea brained “President” asked me to leave; I refused. Then one of the lazy staff members called the Police. Well, by the time the police arrived, I was in the hallway, talking to my nurse, who had persuaded me to go and talk to my psychiatrist. Then a “cowboy” corporal shows up, flexing his hands in a menacing way. We exchanged words, and he wound up tripping me up, and handcuffing me. He, and three other “Keystone” cops, then placed me on a non-public elevator, and this dummy ( Cpl Poindexter) started beating me up….while I was in handcuffs. I reprted this to the watch commander, and to the Director. This took place almost a year ago, and there still has been no answer to my official complaint.. The employees of this VAMC routinely walk the halls, socializing, while veteran issues pile up on their desk. The Police Chief never comes to work, and there is no one to act in his stead. The “Flagship” of all VAMC’s is a ineffective dispensary, staffed by non english speaking parasites!
VETERANS TODAY EDITORIAL REPLY:
Brother Eldon,
It is disturbing hearing of your experience with the Washington DC VA Medical Center, I sort of take this personal because it was this flagship of the VA system that I work at for three years while waiting orders to return to active duty. However, Eldon that was over 30 years ago.
Back in the day, then administrator of the Veterans Administration Max Cleland would make it a point to make weekly visits to the flagship to see how things were going (TO RELATE TO HIS VETS). Maybe it is way past time for the current VA Secretaries to make time to perform unannounced visits to the Flagship.
That said, you did admittedly became disruptive in a community meeting of drugged out vets, we must assume you are talking about a PTSD or related rap session. Those sessions were going hot and heavy but mostly effective shortly after the Vietnam War, but as the years went on attention to the sessions by the VA dwindled that is until this new generation of Iraq and Afghanistan Vets are being referred to such rap sessions.
I sat in on one at the Dayton VAMC intended for younger Vets of the Gulf War, Iraq, and Afghanistan conflicts and that was back around 2007-8 not sure. The focus was younger Vets, and the plan was to meet weekly. Anyway a third of the guys to show up in there were Vietnam Vets. When asked why they were there (beside having PTSD) they said that the Vietnam Vet rap sessions only meet on a monthly basis, and they felt more comfortable meeting weekly. They also had another point – PTSD is PTSD is PTSD regardless who gets it, how young or old they are, or which war they served in.
Another point you raise is that in both PTSD and Anger Management sessions supposedly held by the VA disruptive Vets are EXPECTED it comes with the territory. That is unless you cross the line of threatening others or yourself.
THE GROWTH OF A FEDERAL VA POLICE FORCE
Another issue you bring up in an in your face experience is what I observed as the growth of the federal VA police force. Now that said when I first worked at the Baltimore VA at Loch Raven (now a VA nursing home), we had a few (very few) federal Police and most were my friends and people I could respect and did. However, their numbers were small for Veterans (patients) were not viewed as such a threat AND this was during the Vietnam anti-war movement and early 1970s when Vietnam Vets were so pissed at the VA system that they literally took over a few facilities in protest.
When I transferred to the Washington DC VA Hospital, I noticed that the federal Police staff was slightly larger, but still transparent.
Today when we go to most any VA Hospital it is like a police state, the once transparent VA Police force is now more like the Pentagon Federal Police Force (LARGE), up front, and in OUR face. Exactly who are these large numbers of VA POLICE protecting us from – you got it US!!!
Solution: begin placing less funding in VA law enforcement, cut back on federal police on VA campuses, and divert that money to VA claims processing, hiring more nurses, doctors, and medical staff. Why is the world so damn complicated.
As for your own personal experience, and complaint, depending on when it happened, there’s a new kid in town at least for NOW. Any Veteran being manhandled that way and it is true, it does no good to file a complaint with the VA Watch Commander, or anyone on staff at the VA in question.
Be the complaint true of not, management at the VA in question feels obligated to stand by the VA Police involved. If I worked at the Washington VAMC today and was the Watch Commander or VA Hospital Director, I would by nature be forced to side with my police officers even if the event happened. I would sure as hell discipline or maybe even fire the officer in question, but I would stand by my organization to not make it look bad.
However, if you took your complaint to the VA Officer of Inspector General, and hell you are right there in DC, hand carry it to Secretary Shinseki’s office (and by all means do not be disruptive). Is he going to read it or see it, I doubt it, but someone on his staff will focus their attention on what exactly the federal Police are doing at the Washington DC VA Hospital.
Do we really need that many federal Police on VA campuses especially the VA’s flagship in DC. I could see having an elaborate police force if there were a terrorist threat to our nation’s Veterans at any VA, but if the motive is to protect Vets from other Vets –HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM AND IT AIN’T OUR VETERANS!!!
DC has no serious Congressional representation so you’ll have to settle for what Congress allows – the DC rep to Congress for you have no Senator. Political clout that Vets in other states almost have (snicker) is all but impotent in the nation’s capital. Good Luck!
JUST MY HUMBLE THOUGHTS,
Bobby Hanafin
The Mustang Major
[...] Hostile Attitude toward America’s Veterans Using thе VA іѕ Nothing Nеw : Veter… [...]
I recently had an frustrating experience with the Denver VA. I had been sick for months and my local VA doc really tried to make sure that I taken care of. Referral to Denver VA
Problems with Denver:
Doctor ask – why are you here?
No review of medical records, before appointment
Doubted that I knew what my medications were for- he googled the medication
Getting appointments while problem still exist- not
Doctors treat you as stupid and does not understand anything
Do not ask permission for med student to attend your case
I was forgotten by the nurse for one hour
Ask if I had other insurance- Dental
Medical care at Denver has been three strikes and you are out. They only do enough to get by and do not do any testing that could give answers to long term health problems. Told by the doctor that we do not do those test here
I will be contacting a case worker to let them know about this appointment.
All veterans need to speak up and complain. See your local case worker.
Good Luck and God Bless
One thing the consumer society culture Americans live in is based on jealousy. Lust for more money, greed and envy run Wall Street. Americans love to shove it down someone’s throat what they have or own. Somehow they think the other person is going to be impressed. This does not happen. The opposite happens people get angry.
Like many veterans I have the highest priority at the VA. When I go to the hospital after waiting to see a specialist because it takes a long time. Once I get a appointment I receive good treatment.
Over the years I have heard all the employee cloaked sarcastic verbal vents who work at the VA towards veterans. I write all this off because many VA workers work hard at their job. Most of these people have spent long years in study to get where they get.
I have listened to all the masked disparaging remarks when I pick up six months of meds all for free. What is important for me is to be kind to these people. These VA employees do not know the months I spent in the hospital because of my wounds. They do not dream my dreams of war. They do not know what it is like to look into the eyes of a dying soldier.
They do not know of the emotion of pain looking at the grave back home of your comrades you were with when they died. They do not how totally distressing life has been for me.
They only see you pick up six months of free meds.
Thanks for sharing this article. It really takes a good look at the reasons behind negative behavior towards vets. It’s too bad we have not yet been able to sort out medical care for our vets. We need more awareness about these kinds of issues!
[...] May 14, 2010 Hostile Attitude toward America’s Veterans Using the VA is Nothing New [...]