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DR. STEVEN R. FELDMAN: A JEWISH AMERICAN’S EVOLVING VIEW OF ISRAEL
A Jewish American’s Evolving View of Israel
I didn’t used to sound that way. Growing up in Washington, D.C., I attended the Hebrew Academy, a school that my grandfather helped to found and that my father had helped lead. Like other people who attend religious schools, we were taught that we had a special relationship with God and that our group had a higher moral character. As Jews, we learned how we had been an oppressed people. As American Jews, we believed in American and Jewish values of honesty, justice, truth and peace. We took pride in Israel, a democratic country that shared our values and that represented an end to our oppression.
Our role in reclaiming Israel was very special. We Jews had come to an unredeemed holy land of deserts and swamps, and we made that land bloom. I was proud to be a part of it. Like my classmates, I collected nickels and dimes, saving to plant trees in Israel. Being a Jew made me part owner of the country.
The Story We Were Taught
We Jews had returned to Israel to live in peace with the small local population already there. We bought land from them. And when the evil Arab states — jealous of our accomplishments — declared war on Israel, we begged the local Arabs to stay. We were moral people. But the local Arabs, in an attempt to help Arab armies kill off the Jews, fled. At least that was the story we were taught.
We defeated the Arab armies against all odds. It was a miracle. Yet Israel remained under constant threat from Muslims who wanted to slaughter Jews. Arabs started wars to annihilate Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973. The evil Arabs would terrorize or kill innocents, something Jews never did. We were proud of our commitment to every Jewish life, in contrast to the Arab’s disregard for life. This was evident as we would kill 20 Arabs for every one of us that was killed and we would trade 100 Arab prisoners to recover just one of ours — even a dead one. Our morality was never in doubt. Having American and Jewish values, we were always empathetic to the suffering of the Palestinian refugees. If Muslims had been as caring as we were, Arab countries would have taken the Palestinian refugees in.
My understanding of that story evolved. As a way to expand my horizons, I took an audio course on world religions. The course described Islam as a religion of peace, similar to the Judaism I grew up with. That was very different than what I was taught of Islam — which admittedly was very, very little — in an American Hebrew School. Could this peaceful vision of Islam be reconciled with the violence we Jews saw? On a visit to Israel, I wondered if the Arabs might have a different perspective of the conflict than the one I was taught. Perhaps they saw Israel and the West’s support of Israel as a continuation of the Crusades, an attempt by the West to wrest control of holy land from Muslims.
Palestinian Refugees
I had always felt weak in my understanding of how Israel was created in 1948. The details we were taught were rather sketchy. I found United Nations data that said about 700,000 Palestinians became refugees in the fighting of 1948. That seemed odd. If Jews had come to a land of empty swamps and deserts as I had been taught, how did so many Palestinian men, women and children become refugees? The part of the story that said Jews had come to an empty land seemed like it couldn’t be true.
I began to question other things I had learned when I read that the 1956 war was actually started by Israel, in conjunction with Britain and France, in an effort to help Britain retake the Suez Canal from Egypt. The idea that “the Arabs started all the wars” certainly seemed questionable. Our special morality came into doubt when I read more about the heroic groups — the Irgun and the Stern Gang — that had fought for the protection of the Jews in Palestine. The tales told to us as children didn’t make clear that these groups were terrorist organizations. Israeli historian Benny Morris describes how members of Jewish terror organizations threw grenades into Arab homes and were the first to plant bombs in buses and crowded civilian markets. There were justifications for these actions, of course. One was that they were a response to violence committed by Arabs. Another justification was that they were the unacceptable actions of criminal splinter groups that were punished (though I’m not sure what “punished” meant, as I later learned that Menachem Begin and Yitchak Shamir, former Prime Ministers of Israel, had been leaders of the worst of these Jewish terrorist organizations in the 1940s).
Then there was the story of the Arab town Deir Yassin. The story of Deir Yassin was not taught to us at the Hebrew Academy. It was a singular and very atypical event in the history of the founding of Israel, representing the one and only time Palestinians were mistreated by Jews. While the facts about what was done in Deir Yassin are disputed, many Arab people of this town were killed. How bad the atrocities were isn’t entirely clear, but no one seems proud of how the Arab people of this town were treated.
More Than Deir Yassin
Though Deir Yassin was a tragedy, it certainly wasn’t representative of Jewish action. Our actions were entirely moral. But the recent work of Israeli historians began to document more than just Deir Yassin. Morris describes how in 1948 the Jews in Palestine — before any of the Arab countries declared war — used force and intimidation to drive Palestinian Arabs from many towns and villages. Plan D of the Haganah, the “secret plan” that made my friend and colleague think I was off my rocker, was found by Morris in previously sealed Israeli Defense Forces archives. The plan called for,
It’s hard to know what was in the minds of people in 1948, but perhaps they felt it was necessary for the safety of Jews and for the creation of a Jewish state to “cleanse” the area of Arabs. This was surely a different kind of cleansing than the Nazi Germans intended when they intended to clear the world of Jews. The Holocaust involved gas chambers and the killing of millions of Jews (and others), including members of my family. What the Jews did to Palestinians was not like what the Nazi Germans (and other Europeans) did to the Jews. What the Nazis did to us contributed to the strength of my American Jewish stand against discrimination. That ideal was inconsistent with the expulsion of Palestinian families from their homes. Morris describes it in detail in a two-part interview published in the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinian men, women and children were violently forced from their homes and villages. The Arab villages were destroyed to keep the Palestinians from returning to their homes. In the Ha’aretz article, Morris says, “…there were far more Israeli acts of massacre than I had previously thought. To my surprise, there were also many cases of rape. In the months of April-May 1948, units of the Haganah [the pre-state defense force that was the precursor of the IDF] were given operational orders that stated explicitly that they were to uproot the villagers, expel them and destroy the villages themselves.”
A Different View of the Conflict
The facts of the Israeli-Palestine conflict looked differently with a perspective enlightened by knowing that the Palestinians had been forced out. Jews did buy some land, but it was only a few percent of what they took. The 10 (or 100) to 1 ratio in killing Arabs to Jews didn’t look so civilized anymore. I no longer take any pride when seeing the massive destruction Israel inflicts on Palestinians or neighboring countries. One might still wonder if the Jews had resorted to these actions only in response to Arab attacks, but as early as 1919, before Arab riots in Palestine, Ben Gurion made clear that European Jews emigrating to Palestine intended to displace the Palestinians. Morris quotes Ben Gurion as saying, “There is a gulf, and nothing can bridge it … I do not know what Arab will agree that Palestine should belong to the Jews. … We, as a nation, want this country to be ours …”
European Jews brought high ideals of an egalitarian, socialist society with them to Palestine, but apparently it was a socialism intended only for Jews. The Jews created unions in the workplace but they were unions for Jews, excluding Arabs in a way that seemed very reminiscent of South African Apartheid and of American discrimination of an earlier, less tolerant and less enlightened, era.
I had been taught that Jews had lived in Palestine for centuries and that this continuous tie gave us Jews a right to “redeem” our homeland. Now, the presence of those Jews — surrounded for centuries by tens and hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Arabs (mostly Muslim, but some Christian) — made me realize that Arabs never intended to slaughter Jews or throw them into the sea. If the Quran taught hatred of Jews, Muslims could have cleansed Palestine of Jews long ago. Instead, Muslims, Christians and Jews had lived peacefully together, documented by Morris who found that in the 27 years ending in 1908 only 13 Jews had been killed by Arabs and of those all but 4 were killed in the course of robberies or other crimes. Only after the European Jews began coming to Palestine with the intent to displace the local population did the violence take off.
Gandhi Chastises Zionists
Some think the conflict between Jews and Arabs didn’t start until the war of 1948, but already in the 1930s Gandhi chastised the Zionist effort to displace Palestinians through violent means. “My sympathies are all with the Jews,” Gandhi said. “They have been the untouchables of Christianity. The parallel between their treatment by Christians and the treatment of untouchables by Hindus is very close.” Yet Gandhi went on to say, “I have no doubt that they [the Jews] are going about it the wrong way. The Palestine of the Biblical conception is not a geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb.”
If it was wrong for the Jews to have displaced hundreds of thousands of Muslim (and Christian) Arabs from their homes, villages and lives in 1948, the rest of the history of the conflict looks very different. We used to blame Arab countries for the refugee problem; to do so seems the height of chutzpah knowing that the Haganah created the refugee problem by expelling entire villages of Palestinians. America has continuously supported Israel, providing the planes and bombs that kill Palestinian children. If we thought Iran was evil for giving Hamas rockets that scared people but killed few, then it must look quite horrible to Muslims that we Americans have been giving Israel the material and diplomatic support to kill a hundred fold more people, people who had been violently expelled from their homes and left blockaded in refugee camps. All Jews felt the pain and horror of just one of our soldiers being killed or taken hostage; knowing our own pain should have told us the pain the Muslims felt when thousands of Arab people were taken prisoner or killed.
Violence Engenders Violence
Though we are good in our hearts, acting to achieve peace, our violent acts engender more violence and hatred. If we could kill so many people and still be good, surely the “terrorists” who kill far fewer people aren’t necessarily evil either. One of my Israeli colleagues told me he had Arab friends who had radical ideas, like “we don’t hate the Jews or want to kill them. We just want our land back.” That didn’t sound so radical in light of how the Jews had made Palestinians refugees. I asked Palestinians, other Arabs and other Muslims wherever I went what they thought of Jews and the conflict. It was clear these Muslims were peaceful people, just like us. The Muslims never built gas chambers to kill Jews like the Christians of Europe had. Jews had lived alongside Muslims in relative peace for centuries, being treated far better than the U.S. treated African Americans in the same era. Even today, many thousands of Jews live in Iran, and there are no gas chambers there. Iranians I have spoken to speak with pride of their relationship with Iranian Jews.
On my last visit to Israel, less than a year ago, I visited an old family friend who had come to Israel from Germany in the 1930s. She lived in Jerusalem and her son grew up there. She was cultured — as I imagine was typical of German Jews. Her home was a veritable library. She had served as a secretary, helping catalog the letters of Chaim Weizmann, a founder of the Israeli state. As we sat in her living room, surrounded by her books, she showed my wife and me a picture of her son as a young boy, sitting on the burro of an older boy. The other boy was Arab, son of a local Arab leader. She told me the two boys were the best of friends. She described a time before 1948 when the vast majority of Jews and Arabs lived together largely peacefully. She seemed sad that there was so much hatred and animosity, that the Jewish state didn’t live up to its foundation of universal equality, justice and peace.
Diverse People Living Together
We’ve come a long way from the prejudices of our past. We Americans have elected Barack Obama.
It is time for the vestiges of the discrimination and horror of the 1940s to end. It is time for Palestinian refugee families to be allowed and encouraged to return and rebuild their homes and lives. This will give the Jews the peace they have always wanted, a peace they could never achieve through expulsions and killings that left Jewish philosopher Martin Buber feeling as though the Jews had learned how to behave from Nazis. It’s time for Americans to give up the notion of supporting a state built for people of one religion at the expense of people of another and to support the American ideal of diverse people living together in equality with justice and peace. This is the Zionism of Martin Buber, a spiritual Zionism of Jews, Christians and Muslims living together in peace. While I am happy and proud of the idea of a Jewish state, the idea of a Jewish state created at the expense of the homes and lives of 700,000 Palestinian men, women and children is inconsistent with my Jewish American values.
Some may think these words give ammunition to anti-Semites. On the contrary, the violations of our Jewish principles — the displacement of Palestinians, the killing Israel commits, our support of that killing, and our failure to speak out against it — is what gives real ammunition to hatred of Jews. At the 1951 dedication of the Hebrew Academy, my grandfather summed up the sentiment of the day, saying “The principles of democracy to which we, together with all true Americans, are devoted, can best be preserved and strengthened by our unflagging devotion to the moral and ethical teachings of our own faith.” We have the opportunity to be a beacon to the world for our Judeo-Christian principles, democracy, freedom and justice. But to do that, we have to look past our old prejudices and invite our Palestinian brothers and sisters to return home and rebuild together.
Dr. Steven R. Feldman is Professor of Dermatology, Pathology and Public Health at the Wake Forest University School of Medicine where he also directs the Center for Dermatology Research. He is a graduate of the University of Chicago and received his M.D. and Ph.D. degrees from Duke University in 1985. Dr. Feldman has been recognized by the American Academy of Dermatology with their 2005 Presidential Citation, 2006 Clarence S. Livingood Lectureship, and 2008 Astellas Award. Dr. Feldman is the founder of www.DrScore.com, a website designed to help patients give doctors feedback so that doctors can enhance the quality of care they offer. He is the author of over 400 articles and the 2008 book Compartments: How the Brightest, Best Trained, and Most Caring People Can Make Judgments That are Completely and Utterly Wrong, available from Xlibris.com and other bookstores. Dr. Feldman can be contacted at sfeldman@wfubmc.edu or through the American Council for Judaism at ACJSLN@aol.com.
http://www.acjna.org/acjna/articles_detail.aspx?id=529
Short URL: http://www.veteranstoday.com/?p=38996
Posted by Gordon Duff on Jul 6 2010, With 0 Reads, Filed under Israel, WarZone. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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Thank you Dr. Feldman, Jim Dean, and… …. Brer Duff?
The article sounds like: “The Untold Story of the Jewish Emperors — Hiistory’s Copy Cat Mughals”.
T.
Group aims to provide voice for Jews who oppose Zionism
http://special.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/news/sevendays/24489909-35/jewish-jews-israel-zionism-anti.cs
US questions its unwavering support for Israel
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/05/us-israel-support
Israel as a Strategic Liability?
http://csis.org/publication/israel-strategic-liability
I apologize for the first link’s failure…google: Group aims to provide voice for Jews who oppose Zionism…Also, International Jewish Anti-Zionism Network
Also, http://stopthejnf.bdsmovement.net
Dear Dr. Feldman, a fine piece. Have you read of the extensive Israeli/Zionist/Mossad involvement in 9/11? Israeli companies doing airport security, Israel-based Odigo instant messenging sending warnings, Mossad agents (Sivan Kurzberg, Paul Kurzberg, and 3 others) not only filming and celebrating the WTC attack but also posing for photos with cigarette lighters, etc, etc. All the Proof in the World (http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5367) has these facts and many, many more. Cui bono? Certainly not the American citizenry.
Please take a look. The Zionists have used us all for their nefarious purposes for far too long. Peace, AJ
thoughtful article — thank you
Doctor,
You have avoided or failed to mention the continuing looting of our nation by Zionist and pro-Zionist “yes men”. Their activities are still being ignored by the Israeli payoffs corrupting our Representatives in Washington. Quotes as far back as Ancient Rome by Philosophers (i.e., Seneca, Cicero, etc) have had the same message about their criminal behavior. All the Wall St. Zionist soldiers of Rothschild and company are still free to destroy our culture and dignity. The U.S.S. Liberty attack was carried out by Israel for (cryptic Zionist) Lyndon Johnson.
I’ve examined the Talmud and its perverted view of our species and faiths, the “Goyim” (that is, cattle). As far as Christendom’s decline? In 1827 the Rothschilds took over the Vatican Bank. Any one can Google it or read the Synagogue Of Satan available at Amazon.com.
And one little additional tweak, if you will. You may want to research the fact that the first group to declare war on Germany in 1933 was International Jewry. Why? Because Germany was digging its way out of the Zionist International Bankers stranglehold and control of the Versailles Treaty agreement. I’m amazed how uninformed our University “intellectuals” are.
Are there good “Jews”? Yes! But Few one can trust. Volumes can,and have been, written about the “tribe”.
Good to read about Andrew Carrington Hitchcock ‘s “Synagogue of Satan”. He has a website :
http://www.thesynagogueofsatan.com/
and his book exists in PDF :
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/synagogue_satan.pdf
Reading this helps me to understand why I am -I must recognize it- now so suspicious when I read Jews speaking of Israël. In France where I live, a Jew writer with who I went to school decades earlier wrote two very interesting books quite critic on pro israel french intellectuals. When I met him he used with me precisely what he criticizes in his books. So I agree with Doctor Feldman, it is very very hard for Jews, and concerning me I feel much more in confidence when they clearly express that Rothschild family manipulated all the Jews. In Hitchcock’s book you find quotes of authors writing it was necessary that the Jews suffer a lot because they think of the use they will do later of this.
It is important to always repeat ONU was not competent to take resolution 181, and even if it had been, zionists put microphones everywhere, and knew before the vote they will loose because 4 votes lacked. They asked to Truman to put pression on Liberia, Haïti and Philippines, and they put pression on Blum in France. Without microphones and pressions, 181 would not exist. Therefore, the share of the land was really crazy.
I put on my blog a conference of Henry Cattan, the Palestinian Lawyer, which is very precise and clear on the subject. It is in French, but might exist in English. I put it at this address :
http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/1/67/15/03/le-partage-de-la-palestine-du-point-de-vue-juridique.pdf
This video is also of huge importance (in French I am sorry) :
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xds90x_israel-le-plus-grand-casse-du-siecl_news
AJHenry….
One of hundreds of Israeli Hasbara (propaganda) myths is that the ‘Neoconservatives’ are ‘good Christians’ and not Jewish. In March 2003, Israeli daily Ha’aretz published an article, titled ‘White man’s burden’, in which it wrote that the war on Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservatives, most of them Jewish who pushed Dubya Bush to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.
Former British Environment Minister (1997-2003), Michael Meacher, in an article, published in Guardian (September 6, 2003), called the ‘War on Terrorism’ being BOGUS.
“We now know that a blueprint for the creation of a global Pax Americana was drawn up for Dick Cheney (now vice-president), Donald Rumsfeld (defence secretary), Paul Wolfowitz (Rumsfeld’s deputy), Jeb Bush (George Bush’s younger brother) and Lewis Libby (Cheney’s chief of staff). The document, entitled Rebuilding America’s Defences, was written in September 2000 by the neoconservative think tank, Project for the New American Century (PNAC)…..”
http://rehmat2.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/war-on-terror-vs-war-on-islam/
This idealism. This innocence of belief that the founding of Israel was good and wholesome was shared by those of us in the United States and around the world who were not raised Jewish Gordon.
I remember a time when I was in the Marines some of us talked about going to Israel after the Marines living in a kibbutz to help build Israel.
Over the years Gordon I feel and many around the world were cheated of our belief and innocence in what has become a betrayal to those of us who wanted the best for Israel.
We were cheated by the radical Zionist, both Jew and Christian. People like John Hagee. Israel is fast becoming the face of Dr Evil without comedy, and certainly not innocent.
Now in 2010 Israel is no longer the respected small nation of hope, for a suffering people. It is now on par with South Africa during it’s worst days of apartheid.
Bill,
Being “had” is one thing. The hatred toward the United States is something else, totally virulent. Maybe America is supposed to be destroyed, of its own stupidity and greed. However, Israel will go down with it.
g
Gordon, MAYBE America should SEVERE ALL TIES WITH ISRAEL…
This action, very likely, would “right the listing Ship of State”.
Bill, I hope you’ve taken in the All the Proof in World evidence at (http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5367). It’s overwhelming. South Africa was a brutal state, but Israel is able to murder US citizens at will (and anyone else) and sell the world enormous lies.
In the 18th century, Voltaire said of the Jews, “You have surpassed all nations in impertinent fables in bad conduct and in barbarism.” Today, we are destroying Muslim nations based on the transparent lie of 9/11. We must believe in the TV-version of WWII, yet the Holocaust needs legal protection to prevent people from investigating what happened. A tagic state of affairs for good people of all backgrounds.
Voltaire on Jewish Deceit
“Why are the Jews hated? It is the inevitable result of their laws; they either have to conquer everybody or be hated by the whole human race…”
“The Jewish nation dares to display an irreconcilable hatred toward all nations, and revolts against all masters; always superstitious, always greedy for the well-being enjoyed by others, always barbarous – cringing in misfortune and insolent in prosperity.” (Essai sur le Moeurs)
“You seem to me to be the maddest of the lot. The Kaffirs, the Hottentots, and the Negroes of Guinea are much more reasonable and more honest people than your ancestors, the Jews. You have surpassed all nations in impertinent fables in bad conduct and in barbarism. You deserve to be punished, for this is your destiny.” (From a letter to a Jew who had written to him, complaining of his ‘anti-Semitism.’ Examen des Quelques Objections…dans L’Essai sur le Moeurs.)
Aj, I do agree concerning “All proof in the world”. I began understanding that with “Missing Links”
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7877765982288566190#
Recently, I red quite an interesting article on Israël Shamir concerning the Jews and the Bible. It puts evolution in perspective :
http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Bible_to_Hebrew.htm
Steven,
Words cannot express my admiration for the courage it took, and continues to take, to look truth straight in the eye and stare it down. There is no more difficult a loss than the loss of illusion.
Living our lives entirely based on lies, peeking inside when cracks appear is more than most people can endure. Forcing the cracks open and walking through the lies is death. Few can face that. So, they keep their hands over their eyes in darkness claiming there is no light. What only the bravest learn is that there is new life, a new way to live in world in truth, on the other side. It’s one of the most painful and frighting things I’ve ever had to do in my own life.
Within myself, I kicked and screamed and yelled “NO! NO! NO!” I begged and pleaded to go back to the place I had been blind but happy. Something propelled me through that – simultaneously pushing me and pulling me. Yet, even in my pain and anguish, it seemed like there was something spiritual about it. Now, on the other side, I’m not as “happy.” Instead, I’m more mature and enlightened than I was before.
I try to be more patient with those who aren’t “here” yet – those who don’t know there is another “truth” and those too afraid to peer through the cracks when they do see it. I’m not always successful.
Going through hell, we reach a plateau. We rest and think,”We’re here, we’ve made it. We’re done!” But there is no “here” to get “make it” to After resting, there’s only more to see and learn.
When you’re ready, it will be time to face The Holocaust – to face the FACTS of The Holocaust based upon forensic evidence. I’m afraid that, when you do, you will”die” again. But understanding what you now do, you will be able to see much more quickly how and why it’s all part of the same thing.
As an introduction, I cannot recommend highly enough the book,
Debating the Holocaust: A New Look At Both Sides by Thomas Dalton. It’s based upon recent historical and scientific evidence uncovered and unearthed by Jewish and Israeli researchers.
As the truth continues to unfold for you, remember that you are a man of great courage.
Rex
Rex,
Reading you makes me think to the huge number of suicides we have at work in France. On this website, suicides of veterans are exposed. I deeply understand that : when I was 6, coming home after school, I smelled a terrific odour : my neighbour who was an Algerie and Indochine Veteran had commited suicide. He was deeply in difficulties.
Later, I have always been sensitive on the subject, and I studied suicides at work.
What makes me think of that is one the “cases” I studied, who was a woman top executive in an important company, married, three children and another she had adopted with her husband few times ago. She was very bright, and could have found another company to work in…but all indicates she has been unable to face the truth of her company when her colleagues began to harass her. It was too huge. It ment years of lies, years during which she did see nothing concerning the real truth of this company she worked in during 20 if my memory is good.
It is not at all similar except for this point : to face lies you trusted during decades is a terrible experience. This lady prepared her act, wrote the date, the way she would do it and did it.
I think it is very important to have testimonies of persons who go through and find another sense of life after.
The point is to be strong enough to dare think “yes, all was false, and even if all was false, I am real, I can rebuild myself upon truth. It will hurt, it does hurt, but I can’t lie myself anymore”.
Rex, the Holocaust is the second piece (9/11 being piece #1) which will bring the awakening when it falls.
Not sure when I saw David Cole’s video at Auschwitz but it was a real eye opener. He also appeared on Donahue’s show with Bradley Smith. Dr. Fredrick Toben’s video, Judea Declares War on Germany, is also excellent and more comprehensive. Cole was silenced and Toben continues to be jailed/threatened with jail. Ernst Zundel has recently completed SEVEN years in a German jail for his thought crimes. That was after being kidnapped from his home in the Land of the Free and taken to solitary confinement in Canada for a couple of years. A sweet, loving, rational, thoughtful man who really stands all the screamed smears on their head when people actual see and listen to him.
http://codoh.com/ – Center for Open Discussion of the Holocaust
http://www.whale.to/b/cole_h.html – Cole info and video
http://www.whale.to/b/holocaust_revisionism.html – extensive resources
http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_Zundel_051310.mp3 – Zundel interview
http://www.ihr.org – revisionist texts, etc.
Tellingly, the German courts do not permit facts which support anything but the History Channel version of history. Dr. Piper of the Auschwitz museum, who admitted to David Cole that the “gas chambers” were only run 20-30 minutes a day, was not allowed to appear in support of Zundel.
Faurisson’s piece here (http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n1p-2_Faurisson.html) is on e of the very best pieces for those interested in facts rather than Hollywood/grade school emotional manipulation.
Repetition is the backbone of propaganda and nothing is repeated with the intensity of “the Holocaust.”
However, like Bishop Richard Williamson, I base my current view on the forensic evidence and the analysis of experts. If they change their views, I will likely follow them. See him at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHwDF65CDto&feature=related
I assume all the Holocaust videos, photos, testimonials, tattoos, from Holocaust survivors are all fake/manufactured as well?
Yeah..I know, they probably used only as a way to make money and exploit goyim and take over the world.
You guys really need a wake up call. I hope you don’t call yourselves Americans or lord help us…veterans.
Please don’t use the word courage in these posts..cowards is more appropriate.
Wanna have courage, watch this video over dinner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F67gcaw1taQ&feature=related
Digger, I’ll take a look as I’m always interested in learning. As historian A.J. Taylor said, “I’m just as happy to find out I’m wrong as I’m right.” What I strenuously object to is being told I MUST believe something and watching others being jailed for their beliefs.
A few questions for you:
Why are people (Zundel, Toben, Mueller, Stolz, etc) JAILED for doubting the six million figure when Auschwitz has lowered the death total from 4 million to 1.5?
Have you read the Faurisson piece I linked to? He is expert and has had his jaw broken for it.
Fred Leutchter designed gas chambers for a living. He has said NONE of the sites could have been gas chambers. I believe Germar Rudolph took samples and found no Zyklon residue. Weisel said they burned the victims but he didn’t mention any gas chambers. Is it not more plausible that the Germans used the victims for labor to support a war time economy?
Digger, I’ll take a look as I’m always interested in learning. As historian A.J. Taylor said, “I’m just as happy to find out I’m wrong as I’m right.” What I strenuously object to is being told I MUST believe something and watching others being jailed for their beliefs.
A few questions for you:
Why are people (Zundel, Toben, Mueller, Stolz, etc) JAILED for doubting the six million figure when Auschwitz has lowered the death total from 4 million to 1.5?
Have you read the Faurisson piece I linked to? He is expert and has had his jaw broken for it.
Fred Leutchter designed gas chambers for a living. He has said NONE of the sites could have been gas chambers. I believe Germar Rudolph took samples and found no Zyklon residue. Weisel said they burned the victims but he didn’t mention any gas chambers. Is it not more plausible that the Germans used the victims for labor to support a war time economy?
For a simple, commonsense list of questions try Edgar J. Steele’s “How not to be Interveiwed by CNN about the Holocaust” (www.rense.com/general62/cnn.htm)
Digger, you can get a valuable take on your opening question if you go through the videos available at http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com. If your time is limited, at least go through “One Third of the Holocaust” and “Buchenwald”. It would not work to see them over dinner, but since the topic obviously means so much to you, the sacrifice of half a day or so would seem to be worth your while to see what sincere and intelligent people with views directly opposed to your own — and who have actually done their homework — are saying about the subject.
Digger, I watched the film. It not longer works for me. Having heard and read the testimony of Fred Leuchter, Dr. Franciszek Piper, the Australian owner of a crematorium in Dr. Toben’s film, etc the images no longer constitute evidence.
Starvation conditions existed as Germany began to lose. Typhus was a huge problem and Dr. Piper testifies in David Cole’s movie that the delousing chambers were run 24/7. Zyklon B was a bug killer which would NOT have been welcome or necessary if the agenda was to kill people.
The inmates putting the emaciated corpse in the crematorium appear in good health. Cole, a Jew, shows us the swimming pool next to the inmates barracks. Toben has video of soccer matches between inmates. Post office? Concerts? Why was this never mentioned before.
Why does Wiesel not mention ovens? Why were so many other mechanisms purported (steam chambers, electrificaion grids, burning pits, etc)?
Why does the film insist on the Kabbalistic 6 million when the figure at Auschwitz has been lowered by 2.5 million? Why are people jailed for their thoughts and refusal to accept the 6 million figure? Huge red flag for me.
I could go on but I think I’ve posted ample links to material which people should view despite any misgivings they may have.