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Suppressing Dissent: “The VA is not the place to talk politics”
In the fall 2010 edition of the VVAW – The Veteran, I noted something that Mental Health Therapist Johanna Hans Buwalda, one of VVAW’s Military Counselors , wrote that most any Veteran or Military Family who QUESTIONS, let alone OPPOSES the WAR(S), can relate to.
When the VA, or some other government entity, uses 
these eight words, “this is not a place to talk politics” the intent is actually meant to suppress dissenting views, or cryptic for “if you don’t have anything nice to say about our government, or the war(s), SHUT UP and don’t say nothing.”
I personally ran into these eight dissent suppressing words as an observer, and military family member, at a PTSD rap session at the Dayton, Ohio VAMC circa 2006 or so. My first and last PTSD rap session simply because these eight words were almost effective in shutting my mouth. Thus, I know first hand where Therapist Johanna Buwalda is coming from. In fact, at that time I cautioned Military Families, Vets, and troops who questioned or opposed the wars on moral grounds to leave their views on the wars outside in the VA parking lot, avoid the VA at all costs, or better yet recruit your own professional Mental Health workers that share your views on the wars.
This would be similar to what Vietnam Veterans began doing when the VA was not fulfilling their needs during the early 1970s, WE created Vet Centers that would eventually become politically acceptable and part of the VA.
I still strongly advise Ray Parish and Johanna Buwalda, the Vet Counselors for Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), that VVAW, Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW), Veterans for Peace (VFP), Veterans for Common Sense (VCS), and Military Families Speak Out (MFSO) to combine resources and effort to create an outreach effort to recruit Psychiatrists, Psychologists, Mental Health technicians and related professionals who share our collective desire to end the wars. Though the drive behind such an outreach program would be Veterans and Military Families, I suggest also tapping into resources from the overall Peace Movement for I believe there is where you will find professional Mental Health folks not associated with the VA willing to volunteer their services. One essential aspect of this would be fund raising ideas shared by all organizations sincerely interested in ensuring our Veterans are taken care of when they come home. With adequate fund raising, as Johanna Buwalda told me, “we would certainly be able to set up an entire mental health system where ‘talking about politics’ could always be welcomed.”
However, Buwalda’s approach of reaching out to the VA is a great first step, but I’m pessimistic that the VA will listen as it is run by whichever partisan political party controls Congress and even more so when they also control the White House.
This does however lay a preliminary legal basis to challenge the VA for discrimination based on political views of a class of Veterans.
I got this legal inspiration from a group of college professors, who happen to be Veterans, working on setting the groundwork at colleges and universities to legally challenge campuses for being Veteran Unfriendly. I almost think this is great except their target is anyone on campus who doesn’t share a positive outlook on war(s). They wish to use these same eight words “this is not a place to talk politics”on college campuses of all places. Now, that’s going to really go over well in Political Science Departments.
What is amazing, and ironic, about the exploitation and use of these eight words, or variations thereof, is that since I first worked for the VA way back in the day (1973 to 1978) everything about the VA was POLITICAL. However, at that time VA management, to include political appointees, was controlled by the mainstream Veterans Service Organizations not political parties (well almost not for most VSOs leaned conservative Republican).
Let’s see what exactly is political about the VA.
First we have the Politics of PTSD, then we have the Politics of Agent Orange, then we have the Politics of Gulf War Illness, then we have the Politics of Burn Pits, then we have the Politics of Depleted Uranium, now we have the “Politics of You Can’t Separate Support for the Troops from Support for the Political Decisions made to go to Wars” – a decision BTW our troops, Veterans, and our families had no part in.
Even within the Tea Partiers there has been a call to Support the Troops by Ending the War(s)
Johanna Buwalda came up with some interesting solutions to dealing with these eight words intended to suppress our opinions, shut our mouths and blindly go along with anything our government (mostly civilians who have never served in uniform, let alone in combat) desires our troops to do and their families to endure.
Buwalda’s approach is sort of an if I ran the VA or was simply an advisor to those who do, these suggestions would go a long way to improving access and efficient, FAIR, IMPARTIAL and quality use of the VA Health Care system.
I personally endorse everything Johanna had to say, there is going to be an on-going debate in everything from VA education assistance to compensation to health care that will center around polar opposites of which Veterans are being discriminated against, those who support the political decisions to go to war or support the war because they cannot separate support for the wars from support for the troops, versus views of Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW), Military Families Speak Out (MFSO), and like minded folks who passionately believe the best way to Support Our Troops is to Bring Them Home Now and Care for their needs as VETERANS.
I believe that when (not if but when) military family members, troops, or Veterans who are intelligent enough to question or oppose the “political” wars, they must make every effort including legal to challenge these eight words “this is not a place to talk politics” where ever we hear them.
As an aside, these eight words are not only used to suppress dissent of Veterans who need access to the VA, don’t talk politics is also intended to silence any dissent of VA employees.
Among Veterans and Military Families who access the VA system, these eight words are used on professional medical staff, medical students, and administrative workers at all levels indoctrinating them to abide by what to think NOT how to think.
The main points Johanna raises that would improve VA performance could almost be the twin of even most conservative Veteran and Military Family groups who passionately believe they cannot separate support for the wars from support for the troops including: Outreach, Checklists and Paperwork, Trust, Anger, [my favorite] Moral injury and PTSD, Military Sexual Trauma (MST) and Women, and Racism.
Robert L. Hanafin, Major, U.S. Air Force-Retired, U.S. Civil Service-Retired, Veterans Issues Editor, Veterans Today News Network
VA Health Care Presentation By Johanna (Hans) Buwalda
A few days ago (time really doesn’t matter), I was sitting on the terrace of a coffee shop in my neighborhood in Chicago writing this presentation, when one of those giant firecrackers went off that sound like a bomb. I jumped. 16 years ago I left the war zone I used to live in, and I still jump. But that is not my point. Two women with two little girls, maybe six years old, were sitting at the table next to mine. So this bomb-firecracker went off and the one woman told the girls: “That is patriotism.”
A conversation followed between the four of them that went like this:
First woman: “To show your love for your country, you clean it.” First little girl: “you put trees in it.” Second little girl: “you take care of your garden.” The other woman: “And you stop using so much gasoline.”
It just struck me that there would be no need for this presentation or to have this [Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW)] convention all had such conversations with our parents when we were six years old.
I want to acknowledge that there’s many [on] the VA staff that’s competent, motivated and compassionate. There also are many Veterans who get their health care needs met at the VA. Some VA hospitals do a much better job than others.
That said, there are many Veterans who do not get their needs met at the VA, many who won’t even consider going to the VA, many who can’t access the VA for various reasons. As IVAW understands well, this is a problem. After all, the third principle of IVAW is:
Full VA benefits, adequate health care (including mental health) and other supports for returning servicemen and women.
I am a therapist, I don’t work for the VA, but I have had the privilege to work with many Veterans over the past few years. I would like to share a few things that I have learned as a mental health provider about working with Veterans that may be useful for the VA to know as well. Here is what I have seen while working with Veterans who have difficulty getting mental health services at the VA.
Here is a letter to the VA:
Dear VA mental health services:
Outreach
Outreach is key. Waiting for Veterans to come to your office is frequently futile. I know double booking takes care of the problem of filling all appointments, but it doesn’t take care of all Veterans. In fact, you may miss the Veterans who need you most. I know you have established vet-centers, and that is a great step in the right direction, but they are still centers Veterans need to go to. How about leaving your offices and going to meet Veterans where they are at? I mean that quite literally. Go in the shelters, bars, under the bridges, veteran meetings, fundraisers, meet the leadership, listen for who may need help and offer it.
Checklists and Paperwork
I suggest that you put your checklists and paperwork to the side and listen first. My guess is that checklists and forms are an efficient way to learn about symptoms and that you want ‘outcome measures.’ However, your paperwork is also a very efficient way to turn Veterans off. Checklists will tell you something about symptoms, but checklists will tell you nothing about a veteran’s life, nothing about what Veterans want for their lives and what they believe stands in the way of reaching their goals. Checklists and paperwork will not make a veteran feel truly heard and cared for. Military mental health services seem to operate with the goal of making service personnel ‘combat ready.’ I urge that the VA not operate with a similar goal of just helping Veterans become ‘civilian functional.’ This goes beyond symptoms: Veterans want to thrive.
Trust
Which brings me to another issue that seems to be understood by only a limited number of VA providers: trust needs to be earned. I don’t envy you! Many of the Veterans I work with see you as part of the same establishment that betrayed them every step of the way. You will have to work very hard, perhaps even harder than me, to earn that trust. I suggest that you take a good look at the providers who are best liked and respected by the Veterans in your hospital. I bet that you will find that these providers treat their patients with respect, kindness and patience. That these providers are welcoming, listen, follow-up, always remember their patients’ names, and often their spouses’ as well. And that they don’t see their patients as non-compliant when they don’t follow doctor’s orders, but that these providers try to find what concerns the veteran has, what happened that the veteran decided or wasn’t able to follow through. They probably always assume that the veteran wants healing. I mean, nobody wishes what some Veterans suffer through every day to their worst enemy!
I can assure you, VA health care that I try to practice all of these things. I have never felt used or abused by a veteran, not even those that you sometimes seem to be so afraid of, the veteran with addiction problems. My phone is always on. No veteran has ever called me at three in the morning for some frivolous reason. Please, VA, get rid of the idea that Veterans are out to cheat the system. Maybe some are, but in my experience the vast majority are not. Even if they are, remember that they were betrayed many times over. They served in our name and are going to be affected all their lives; they have the right to be cared for and receive the best care possible.
Anger
Many of you seem to be more afraid of anger than seems reasonable to me. I understand that you need to keep yourself safe, and I know that some Veterans are afraid of their own anger because they know what they are capable of doing.
But maybe you need to understand that anger is much more than a symptom of PTSD, that Veterans have very good reasons to be angry. Some of them feel cheated or dumb or gullible because they bought into what the recruiters promised, what they learned as children (the US is the greatest country; serving in the military is an honor, etc). They are angry about being forced to fight in an unjust war, angry about trusting a leadership that turned out not to be trust worthy. Angry about not being taken care of when returning, about civilians not being particularly aware that a war has been going on, about not getting welcomed home after deployment, about being betrayed over and over again.
And I am sure that you know that Veterans were trained to not express their sadness, frustration, anxiety, grief, unhappiness and other emotional pain. Only anger was useful in combat.
Veterans Today Editorial Comment: Angry about civilian not being particularly aware that a war has been going on (public apathy) is most likely anger shared by most Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans regardless what their political views on the wars are. However, I personally believe that there are adequate efforts made by a minority of other Veterans and Military Family groups to Welcome Home younger Veterans of these wars due to the Vietnam Syndrome. We don’t want this generation of Vets treated like we Vietnam Vets were treated is a theme that almost crosses political ideological lines. I’d have to say that those Vets and Families that obviously Support the Wars receive a friendlier welcome home than those Vets and Families who question or oppose the wars.
Johanna continues, “Believe me, I don’t like anger very much either, but I know the veteran dealing with it likes it even less. In my experience, the anger is seldom if ever about me or even directed at me, and is almost always something that a veteran wants to talk about resolving. You have to handle anger and you have to learn not to get caught up in it. Also do not deny Veterans services because they expressed their feelings with anger. They may actually need you the most during that time.”
Moral injury
Some Veterans have told me that when they tried to talk about their moral questions about the war, the US’s involvement in the war, and their personal involvement and actions in the war, they are being told that the VA is not a place to talk politics.
However, how can providers consider treating Veterans without talking about the moral questions that Veterans ask themselves every day? The questions that make it so hard to get up and face themselves? Am I still a good person, Will I still be loved if my family would know what I did out there? Will they be afraid of me if they knew what goes on in my mind when I am angry?
These are very hard to talk about, and very hard to listen to as a mental health provider as well. But these questions are at the heart of healing.
We are not dealing with internal issues only, as a provider we have to be willing to look at the larger social- political issues surrounding the Veterans’ life.
If you cannot hear those stories, you cannot work with Veterans as a mental health provider. I suggest though, that you practice very good and comprehensive self-care.
Veterans Today Editorial Comment: Although Johanna mentions it below, the politically correct triggers of PTSD are not moral injuries by nature. However, seeing dead bodies, losing buddies, and/or killing people, has become gender non-specific with men and women not only facing these issues but the moral injuries mentioned here.
Military Sexual Trauma (MST) and Women
Johanna continues, “I want to say something about MST and women. I am so glad that some of you have realized how intimidating your VA medical centers can be for women. Just entering one of your hospitals can bring up a slew of memories of being a woman in a sea of males. Maybe my point here has more to do about outreach than MST and women. I let women choose where they want to meet because I want them to feel as safe as possible. Even though my office is in a very small wellness center, the women seldom choose to meet there. Even if you have separate women’s clinics (and I applaud you for that), she still has to go to the pharmacy for example.
In my experience, 100% of women have some level of MST ranging from feeling unsafe to rape. But please don’t forget that while women are still not supposed to be in combat positions, they are. Seeing dead bodies, losing buddies, and/or killing people, has become gender non-specific. Please remember to deal with combat related issues. In women Veterans, PTSD is not limited to MST.
On the other hand, please also remember that in male Veterans, PTSD is not limited to combat. In my experience, 10% of male Veterans have experienced some level of MST.
Racism
I have noticed that Veterans of color who have used the VA have not discussed their experience with racism. Maybe this is not across the board and just limited to the Veterans I have met. I hope so. But just in case it is not, I want you to know that when I meet with Veterans of color, racism almost always becomes a topic of conversation. When discussing stressors and trauma while serving in the military and/or while deployed, experience with racism almost always turns out to have a major impact on the mental health of that veteran.
Dear VA providers, some of you are going to say that I care too much or that I don’t know how to keep appropriate boundaries. I don’t agree with you. I believe that we should all care, we can’t care enough. This country sent these, often very young, men and women out into grave danger in our name, for our sake. We have more than an obligation to care for them. They didn’t go home at 5 o’clock thinking that the nation could wait being safe till tomorrow. They still can’t go home at 5 o’clock free of suffering the aftermath of war.
If the VA doesn’t have enough people to provide that level of care, they need to get more. It all boils down again to the fact that we have an obligation to those we sent out to defend us, regardless of how misguided these wars may be.
A couple of days ago, a veteran posted a video entitled “All is Not Okay (music by Seether).” The video was powerful, but it was actually a comment below the video that caught my eye. It said:
“Douglas Barber, an Iraq vet tried to get help from the VA for two years after his return from the… quagmire.” That comment just struck me as being at the heart of the issue. Douglas Barber should not have needed to try the get help from the VA for two years. To me, it should have been the other way around. The VA should have tried to help Douglas Barber for two years or for as long as it took to support him. I mean, VA, is Veterans Administration, not Administration Veterans. If the VA, would truly be able to put Veterans before Administration maybe Veterans like Douglas Barber would still be alive. Instead, Douglas Barber committed suicide.
Thank you for listening to me. Please feel free to contact me with any questions and/or concerns.
This is the text of Johanna Buwalda’s presentation at the Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) Convention – Panel on VA Health Care, July 9, 2010 in Austin, Texas.
Hans Buwalda is one of VVAW’s Military Counselors.
VETERANS TODAY CLOSING COMMENT:
There are those who sincerely believe that WE cannot separate Support for Our Troops from Support for Their Wars. WE will see efforts launched and even some already in progress to assert that IF WE do not Support Our Troops and Their Wars then WE are DISCRIMINATING against Veterans.
You Can Support Our Troops AND Support Their War BUT
You Cannot Support Their War AND NOT Support Our Troops.
You Cannot Support Our Troops AND NOT Support Their War.
With the Right-Wing back in power, rest assured that these eight words will get plenty of use to SUPPRESS DISSENT!!!
ROBERT L. HANAFIN, Major, U.S. Air Force-Retired, U.S. Civil Service-Retired, Veterans Issues Editor, Veterans Today News
Short URL: http://www.veteranstoday.com/?p=66103
Posted by Robert L. Hanafin on Dec 10 2010, With 0 Reads, Filed under Causes, PTSD, Vet News, Veterans Affairs. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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I mentioned above that even among the Tea Partiers there has been a call to Support the Troops by Ending the War(s). This is not intended as an endorsement of the Tea Party or Tea Party Movement only to endorse what Congressman Ron Paul is saying, because I believe he is correct.
In a November 11th article that appeared on the Daily Tea Part on-line newsletter called
Support the Troops by Ending the War by Congressman Ron Paul (Psyop Vaccine) at
http://www.DailyTeaParty.com.
Congressman Paul notes that, “Americans and Tea Partiers are asked to support “Our Troops” by the media almost daily. Knowing that there are tens of thousands of people employed by “our” government to propagandize us, we would not be surprised to learn that the meme “Support Our Troops” came out of one of their Psyops laboratories.”
John Smith who posted Ron Paul’s commentary noted that “this article by Tea Party founder Representative Ron Paul is a good way to remind our Tea Party friends that supporting our troops is done best by not exposing them to the evils of war. Please pass around and vaccinate the Tea Party against the “Support Our Troops” Psyop meme. It is going around again.”
Smith linked this article to an upcoming documentary film Psywar; The real battlefield is the mind posted at http://dailyteaparty.com/2010/09/24/psywar-the-real-battlefield-is-the-mind-movie/
Psywar; The real battlefield is the mind – a film that explores the evolution of propaganda and public relations in the United States, with an emphasis on the “elitist theory of democracy” and the relationship between war, propaganda and class. Includes original interviews with a number of dissident scholars including Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Michael Parenti, Peter Phillips (“Project Censored”), John Stauber (“PR Watch”), Christopher Simpson (“The Science of Coercion”) and others.
See the movie trailer at http://metanoia-films.org/psywar.php
Again, this is not an endorsement of the Tea Party, Congressman Ron Paul, or the Tea Party Movement but only to show that the Peace Movement shares the high ground by Supporting Our Troops by Bringing them Home regardless if those views are rooted in fiscal conservatism, long held libertarian views on foreign affairs, or moral and ethical motives.
Bobby Hanafin
Veterans Issues Editor
Veterans Today News Network
Sent into Veterans Today by Mental Health Therapist Johanna Hans Buwalda:
Dear Bobby,
I agree with you that waiting for the VA to change its ways and actually providing the care that Veterans need right now, is not going to cut it.
I think many of us are working very hard on developing networks of civilian providers who are willing and able to truly listen to what Veterans have to say and can provide quality services.
For example, I have a network of volunteer providers across the country.
I also collaborate with the Soldiers Project, as well as with Civilian Medical Action Network, several trauma therapists networks, GI Rights Hotline, Catholic Worker Houses, Courage to Resist, IVAW, MFSO, VFP, [see links below to some organizations mentioned] and many other organizations to make sure that our veterans, AWOL, CO applicants, and their loved ones get the services they need. There are an amazing number of mental health providers out there who want to help, who are against these wars, and are incredibly generous with free services. Doing all this in addition to providing direct service to a very large case load without financial resources is exhausting. If we had the resources, we would certainly be able to set up an entire mental health system where ‘talking about politics’ could always be welcomed.
Thanks again for re-posting the presentation!
Peace,
Hans
Resources:
The Soldier’s Project at http://www.thesoldiersproject.org/
GI Rights Hotline at http://www.girightshotline.org/
Catholic Worker Houses at http://www.catholicworker.org/communities/commlistall.cfm
Courage to Resist at http://www.couragetoresist.org/
Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) at http://www.ivaw.org/
Military Families Speak Out (MFSO) at http://www.mfso.org/
Veterans for Peace at http://www.veteransforpeace.org/
Sent into our Facebook page by Ron Richards,
Ron wrote: “Roger that. This whole “Don’t talk politics” is really cipher for “Don’t talk about politics that are not in support of the current government and its policies.” Active duty military do not have the same rights as other Americans; their rights to freedom of expression are restricted by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. They are allowed to express mild opposition to their government’s policies, but not to the extent that civilians can, and certainly not when they are in theater during war. This is precisely why it is so important that those of us who are not in the military raise our voices against the Bush/Obama wars.
That old canard that the right always pulls out goes like this: “Don’t you leftists find it ironic that the very soldiers who are fighting the war you are protesting against are doing so to protect your right to free speech?” The is a typical rhetorical ruse on the part of the right. The very premise, that these soldiers are somehow protecting my right to free speech, is itself absurd. They are protecting the economic interests of the ruling class in this country, and the geopolitical ambition of some of our less than savory allies elsewhere. Also pre-supposed is that the soldiers themselves would be offended by our protests, a none too subtle attempt to equate opposition to the war with oppositions to the soldiers who were forced by the illegal Bush junta to fight in the war. Come to any anti-war demonstration and you will find an ever growing group of veterans of these wars standing with us in solidarity against American imperialist ambitions. By speaking out when those forced to fight in these wars cannot speak out, you are showing solidarity with them, and sympathy to their plight. True progressives, true leftists have to stop being shy when it comes to this issue. We need to point out the real traitors are those who are traitors to the Constitution, the Bushes, the Cheneys, the neocons, the sell-out Democrats who voted for war like Clinton, Edwards, Lieberman, Kerry, Biden and the rest, and of course most of the Republicans. They are the true traitors. Diane Feinstein, one of the sell out Democrats who gave Dubya the authority to start his illegal war, recently called WikiLeaks’ actions criminal.
The real criminals are Feinstein and her ilk who walk hand in hand with Bush and the neocons. Real patriotism means speaking out–loudly, unequivocally, unceasingly–when your government is wrong. Now that Obama has become a front-runner for the Republican nomination in 2012 (BTW, hope you all saw Saturday Night Live tonight), it is more important now than ever to refuse to back down, and to actively push forward with a progressive agenda, accepting no compromise, and attacking those who continue to sell out.”
VETERANS TODAY EDITORIAL RESPONSE:
Ron, I do not agree with your entire view, but you certainly touch on the main points without using partisan political talking points. For example, you say
“This is precisely why it is so important that those of us who are not in the military raise our voices against the Bush/Obama wars.”
That is a very insightful vision IF everyone remembers that Military Veterans too are “not in the military” so to speak. I agree that once we join the military, especially as youngsters (know it or not) we are taking an Oath to defend the very Constitution and Bill of Rights per se AS we forfeit our rights under the First Amendment. I personally believe in many ways this is as it should be. However, once we retire or decide that military service is not our cup of tea, WE are not under UCMJ and better yet regain our First Amendment Rights. What is the use of Veterans regaining our right to speak out (a right, as you mention, WE VETERANS have served so that civilians can speak out for or against war(s).
You say, “That old canard that the right always pulls out goes like this: “Don’t you leftists find it ironic that the very soldiers who are fighting the war you are protesting against are doing so to protect your right to free speech?” The is a typical rhetorical ruse on the part of the right.”
VETERANS TODAY RESPONSE: This is not only an old cliche, but the right remains too wrapped up and influenced by the Vietnam Era Anti-War Movement that in many ways has no relation to today Peace Movement. A mixture of propaganda and reality allowed moderates to right of center to paint those who organized and ran the Vietnam Anti-War Movement as LEFTISTS. Frankly today the term leftist hardly applies to the 21st Century Peace Movement – WHY?
Think on it, the Vietnam Anti-War movement was a knock off of the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s, and it became energized by THE DRAFT. College campuses were the battlegrounds of that anti-war movement with Academia and Students taking the lead in organized protest against the Vietnam War, because they collectively had something to lose and feared the draft. It was not until late in the Vietnam anti-war movement that Vietnam Veterans such as Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) join in the civilian controlled anti-war movement. To me the actions of VVAW were the only aspect of that Peace Movement that was keeping war protesters from totally blaming the troops for not being able to end the war themselves via some undefined victory or for being enablers allowing the bipartisan governments of Johnson and Nixon to continue the war for so long. BTW the Afghanistan War is quickly approaching a milestone of surpassing even our longest war – Vietnam.
Today, the 21st Century Peace movement IS NOT run or totally organized by intelligentsia, academics, or students, and college campuses remain silent havens away from the reality and cost of the current wars. That is not to say that civilian supporters of Veterans and Military Families who question or oppose the war(s) do not play an essential role, but the vast numbers of non-Veterans observed during the Vietnam War is AWOL today. Instead the Peace Movement from 2001 and 2010 has been spearheaded by Veteran and Military Family Organizations that although WE collectively ally with the left-wing, I would not consider US leftists as the term was recognized during Vietnam.
For example, this is a caveat that appears on the Military Families Speak Out (MFSO) Website about Pacifists a term also usually associated with liberals and leftists.
Is MFSO pacifists?
“Our members have diverse opinions about war and political beliefs. However, we all have in common a determination to support our loved ones in the military. We stand united in opposition, not to war in general, but to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, on the basis that they are unjust wars which the U.S. waged based on lies.”
I as a member of MFSO share the view that I am NOT opposed to war in general, but to the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, on the basis that they are unjust wars which the U.S. wages based on lies. There is never ending debate about these wars being legal, however there is no doubt, even among a growing number of folks on the right that these wars are unjust. Throw in the fact that WE THE PEOPLE over depend on what less than 1% of our population to endure never ending back to back multiple combat tours is not only a National Disgrace but SINFUL. That is really why I oppose these wars. Though unjust, I would not be as opposed to them IF the American people were FORCED to relate to them, be committed to them in blood and money, and lastly THE DRAFT was implemented. These are views that define we as anything but a LEFTIST.
You say, “Come to any anti-war demonstration and you will find an ever growing group of veterans of these wars standing with us in solidarity against American imperialist ambitions. By speaking out when those forced to fight in these wars cannot speak out, you are showing solidarity with them, and sympathy to their plight.”
VETERANS TODAY RESPONSE: Where WE may differ is that I logically and for good reason see the Veterans and Military Families have always been the tip of the spear in Peace demonstrations. However, I strongly agree with you that IF the stars are aligned in such a way to allow what another decade of occupation and wars that a significant number of those who served in these occupations will be openly joining VFP, IVAW or even MFSO realizing that most Vets and Military Families ARE NOT pacifists per se but only desire to end these war(s). To those who say WE cannot pick and choose which wars WE volunteer to serve, fight, and die in I must say THE HELL WE CAN’T. The collective WE have the most to lost NOT college professors, college students, or college campuses. WE have the most to lose NOT the left-wing, leftists, or pacifists which WE are not.
Lastly you say, “Real patriotism means speaking out–loudly, unequivocally, unceasingly — when your government is wrong.”
VETERANS TODAY RESPONSE:
Though I may not entirely agree with you on the blame game, I do admire the indythinker way in which you impartially spread the blame across established party lines. That said, have you or anyone else heard the concern of some still in Congress about an Unholy Alliance between the left-wing, progressive liberals, and the fiscal conservatives and libertarians to End the Wars due to the trillions wasted that add to our national deficit.
Obviously, any reasonable person will not vast differences between the overall political ideology of the left-wing or as you call yourself True Progressives, the Tea Bag Party, and Libertarian Party. However, the left has already been willing to hit the streets with the Peace Movement’s tip of the spear (Vets and Military Families who are not leftists or pacifists), what is to prevent such an alliance if the ultimate goal is to END THE WARS!
Note for instance that Congressman Ron Paul ran on an Independent Party platform calling for the End of the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan period based on economic reasons. I almost voted for him instead of Obama, but trusted Obama a bit more to get us out of the wars – WRONG!!!
It remains to be seen IF the Tea Bag Movement, of which Ron Paul was really part of when he wasn’t busy being a wannabe Libertarian, takes the Republicans and Democrats to task for spending too much on the wars and increasing the deficit. If the fiscal conservatives in the Libertarian and Tea Parties serious take an anti-Iraq and Afghanistan War stance that includes hitting the streets in war protests (that would be the litness test), I would strong advise that liberals, leftists, pacifists, Veterans, and Military Families ally with them to achieve this goal, but only if the Libertarians and Tea Party Movement join the Peace Movement in the streets.
I’m not saying that is going to happen or is even logical, however the stars seem to be aligning in that direction. I seriously believe that it is not the moral reasons or loss of life that will eventually end these occupations and wars. As evident by the last election and focus on economic concerns – IT WILL BE THE NEVER ENDING INCREASE IN FINANCIAL COST OF THE WARS WITH NO WAR TAX TO PAY FOR THEM THAT WILL EVENTUALLY END THE OCCUPATIONS OF IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN OR OUR TROOPS AND MILITARY FAMILIES SIMPLY BURN OUT!!!
Dear Bobby,
A terrific and thoughtful piece.
With best regards,
Luis & Tuesday
Good article but many veterans already know the VA wants above all else to lie to, steal from, and ultimately kill as many veterans as possible, thus securing more bonus checks for themselves. Its hard to let your guard down when dealing with such an agency, even if there are some good people in the VA trying to help veterans.
One of the big issues we all should have with the VA is how they handle MDs who screw up. They transfer them to another VA hospital. I know of four MDs in the last four years at our local VAMC, who screwed up (in spades) and were transferred to another VA hospital. That then raised the question of one wonders how many MDs screwed up at other VAMCs and were transferred here!
Excellent point. On that topic, I have an active FTCA & 1151 claim against my local VAMC. Both my VA PCP’s are blithering idiots and should have their creds pulled immediately. Maybe we should put up an article on how to report a doctor or nurse to a state medical board for investigation. They may work for the VA, but they answer to the medical boards. Food for thought.
Sent into my Facebook page by a friend with a more positive take on the VA she uses.
“Bobby, For the work I do, My politics stays out of it. I need to do that to keep the focus on trust with my clients. As a VA user, I have never been told anything about not discussing politics, but my providers have been great for the most part. Though politics is something my husband follows, I am very pragmatic about “making changes, not just talking.”
I find the points brought up as something that really ought to be discussed in the Veterans, civilian and VA communities. And while I want to support all discussion regarding veterans here on my facebook page, regardless of my pro or con on each topic I am not the person to lead a discussion unless it is regarding Military Sexual Trauma, my field of expertise. I encourage others to follow though on this discussion, while I remain focused in the “trenches.”
Sent into my Facebook page by David Swanson,
Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) would want to see this.
Sent in via my Facebook page by Eric Van Zant and Bruce Semlinger
Eric says, “IVAW asks Soldiers to violate the Uniform code of Military Justice. They align themselves with communists. They burned the American flag at Lafayette Park last March. Treasonous scum in my opinion. If you want more information on IVAW go to “this Ain’t hell but you can see it from here” John is an expert on all the anti American Veterans groups”
Bruce Semlinger says, “Our military is getting the shaft big time, from this government. This is one reason they keep them out of the country…they know if there is some sort of a civilian uprising to overthrow the criminals in Washington, that the soldiers would take that side. It also keeps down new enlistment…much to the delight of our enemies. Damned traitors in Washington need to be gotten out of there…and most of them imprisoned for treason.”
Veterans Today Editorial Response:
Eric,
At least thank you for allowing a post that you most likely strongly disagree with remain on your wall. In turn, I will post your comment as is in the comments section of the article on Veterans Today.
That said, could you provide me links to reliable sources that prove:
1. IVAW asks Soldiers to violate the UCMJ. I’m not saying they do or do not, but I’m looking for views that counter this article regardless my views.
2. They align themselves with communists. Well frankly, I believe IVAW aligns themselves with any group or organization that has the goal of ending the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, including leftist, moderates, socialists, not really sure about communist? That’s why I’d like a link.
3. They burned the American flag at Lafayette Park last March. This one I’d really like a reliable link to and better yet photos showing ‘beyond a doubt’ IVAW did this. Frankly, I’m against the Flag Amendment, but I’m also passionately against anyone within our borders, especially Veterans, burning Old Glory. I believe the story also goes that most members of IVAW are also fake Vets – right?
If you want more information on IVAW go to “this Ain’t hell but you can see it from here” John is an expert on all the anti American Veterans groups – WILL DO!
I did, it is a far-right wing Veterans blog at http://thisainthell.us/blog/
Thus, we can clearly see where my old friend Eric gets his views – all far Reich-wing.
Bruce,
I’m not friends with you YET, and do not totally agree with all your views, but can’t argue or debate what you said above.
Eric mentioned for instance how Iraq Veterans Against the War allies themselves with Communist, and you saw my response to that. I believe that American Veteran and Military Family Peace groups do and will be ally with any other group or organization that is serious about ending the occupations and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. An alliance with a group or organization that does not hold the same political ideology as we do is something politicians have been doing in Congress forever, yet still can’t seem to get to the high ground of ending military occupations in foreign lands.
As I recall, for I almost voted for him, Congressman Ron Paul ran for President on a somewhat Libertarian-Tea Party platform that called for the end of the wars. However, we do not note Ron Paul, the Libertarian or Tea Party being aligned with the Communist and certainly not the Socialist Party even though at least the Libertarian Party tried to sell itself as an anti-war party with Ron Paul taking up the anti-war challenge. I’d assume he did not attract too many liberals due to issues of TRUST. Like I trusted Obama to somehow end the wars on his shift – WRONG!!!
My point being that IF the Libertarians, Tea Partiers, or Constitutional Party was serious about ending the wars, to include hitting the streets, mark my words all other differences aside IVAW and Military Families Speak Out would most likely ally with THEM on foreign policy issues and not leave the streets rather then share them with more conservative folks.
The Libertarians have called for a hands off foreign policy to include NO foreign aid, and NO meddling in the internal affairs of outside nations (isolationism) since their founding. Ron Paul tends to be a wannabe Libertarian, yet continues to hold the Republican mantle and even turn down the Libertarian nomination for President, thus WE have a trust and reliability issue.
Bobby Hanafin