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Understanding the opposition to NATO’s intervention in Libya

Uri Avnery – Why Liberals Love Gaddafi  and Feel No Shame

 

by  Jim W. Dean…featuring Uri Avnery

 

Uri Avnery - the Conscience of Israel

Uri Avnery argues that opponents of military intervention in Libya are motivated more by hatred of the USA and NATO than by any concern for the people of Libya.

As he has so many times before, the Old Man of Israel has to explain it all for us.  We really should have to pay him for all of this. We pay so many others…who don’t.

It seems so unfair to Uri. Maybe we should call the MacArthur Foundation folks for that $250,000 deal that they give out…the genius grant.

His timing was perfect. We have more than a few VT readers who have been bitten by the same hate NATO and the Evil empire bug, and the right for Gaddafi to run his country like a plantation, where the people are farm animals.

They say that is none of our business.  Gadaffi was a Richard Helm’s  protege. We owed the Libyans. But the ‘lebensraum’ Zionists?…they gotta go…for their crimes against humanity. 

We Can Actually See Stupidity

I find myself scratching my head, which hurts. Uri has more hair than me, and is wiser, too.  I am still in the training stage. Can there really be so many confused people? Is some kind of mass hypnosis process being used on these folks. Has someone joint ventured with the aliens to hit them with a stupid  ray gun ?

We featured a fabulous piece of Uri’s a while back, Instilled Memory

It was a bell ringer and got a lot of reads with great comments. His talent for writing is making what is often a complicated thing for the rest of us to explain, so simple to understand.  He blows the smoke away.

 

Here is a gem from Instilled Memory:

Quite by chance, straight after reading this testimony, I saw on TV the results of a scientific investigation by Israeli researchers into “instilled memory”.

Their experiments show that people who have seen something with their own eyes, but are told by everybody else that they have seen something else, start to suppress their own memory and “remember” that they saw what the others had allegedly seen.

Neurological research then showed that this is can actually be seen happening in the brain: the imagined memory replaces the real. Social pressure has done its work: the instilled memory has become real memory. I believe that this is even truer for an entire nation, which is, of course, composed of individuals. I have seen this many times.

That Murdoch Look

That folks…was the magic bullet. We really are that stupid. That is why certain groups have targeted media empires as an Intel operations platforms. You can create whatever you want in people’s minds and memories, with just the proper tools and situational framing.

Once you have wrapped your mind around this you will see so many examples of it that it will scare you. The scariest part for me is that this cheapens truth so much.

The Rupert Murdoch empire could erase and replace it with anything it wanted. That was one of his draws on the political elite, and the intelligence agencies, which has still not come out, the other hammer waiting to fall.

But here is Uri. He has a media ban on him here in America, land of the free. And you will see why. He might even be…the most dangerous man on the planet.

 

Understanding the opposition to NATO’s intervention in Libya

by  Uri Avnery

 

Gaddafi the Glamorus

Though the Bible tells us “Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth” (Proverbs 24:17), I could not help myself. I was happy.

Muammar Gaddafi was the enemy of every decent person in the world. He was one of the worst tyrants in recent memory.

This fact was hidden behind a façade of clownishness.

He liked to present himself as a philosopher (the Green Book), a visionary statesman (Israelis and Palestinians must unite in the “State of Isratine”), even as an immature teenager (his innumerable uniforms and costumes).

But basically he was a ruthless dictator, surrounded by corrupt relatives and cronies, squandering the great wealth of Libya.

Déjà vu 

This was obvious to anyone who wanted to see. Unfortunately, there were quite a few who chose to close their eyes.

When I expressed my support for the international intervention, I was expecting to be attacked by some well-meaning people. I was not disappointed. How could I? How could I support the American imperialists and the abominable NATO? Didn’t I realize that it was all about the oil?

The Three Hucksterteers

 I was not surprised. I have been through this before. When NATO started to bomb Serbian territory in order to put an end to Slobodan Milosevic’s crimes in Kosovo, many of my political friends turned against me.

Didn’t I realize that it was all an imperialist plot? That the devious Americans wanted to tear Yugoslavia (or Serbia) apart?

That NATO was an evil organization? That Milosevic, though he may have some faults, was representing progressive humanity?

This was said when the evidence of the gruesome mass-murder in Bosnia was there for everyone to see, when Milosevic was already exposed as the cold-blooded monster he was. Ariel Sharon admired him.

 

My enemy’s enemy is my friend – even if he’s a psychopath

“I was bombarded with messages from well-meaning people who lauded Gaddafi for all his good deeds. One might get the impression that he was a second Nelson Mandela, if not a second Mahatma Gandhi.”

So how could decent, well-meaning leftists, people of an unblemished humanist record, embrace such a person?

My only explanation was that their hatred of the USA and of NATO was so strong, so fervent, that anyone attacked by them must surely be a benefactor of humanity, and all accusations against them pure fabrications.

The same happened with Pol Pot.

Now it has happened again. I was bombarded with messages from well-meaning people who lauded Gaddafi for all his good deeds. One might get the impression that he was a second Nelson Mandela, if not a second Mahatma Gandhi.

Was Pol Pot - Misunderstood

Was Pol Pot - Misunderstood ?

While the rebels were already fighting their way into his huge personal compound, the socialist leader of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, was praising him as a true model of upright humanity, a man who dared to stand up to the American aggressors.

Well, sorry, count me out. I have this irrational abhorrence of bloody dictators, of genocidal mass-murderers, of leaders who wage war on their own people. And at my advanced age, it is difficult for me to change.

I am ready to support even the devil, if that is necessary to put an end to this kind of atrocities. I won’t even ask about his precise motives. Whatever one may think about the USA and/or NATO – if they disarm a Milosevic or a Gaddafi, they have my blessing.

 

”A Libyan victory, not a British or a French one”

 How large a role did NATO play in the defeat of the Libyan dictator?

The “Libyan rebels, disorganized and poorly armed as they were, have won a remarkable victory. This would not have happened without real revolutionary fervour, without bravery and determination. It is a Libyan victory, not a British or a French one.

The rebels would not have reached Tripoli, and certainly not by now, if they had not enjoyed NATO’s sustained air support. Libya is one big desert. The offensive had to rely on one long road.

Without mastery of the skies, the rebels would have been massacred. Anyone who was alive during World War II and followed the campaigns of Rommel and Montgomery knows this.

I assume that the rebels also received arms and advice to facilitate their advance.

But I object to the patronizing assertion that it was all a NATO victory. It is the old colonialist attitude in a new guise. Of course, these poor, primitive Arabs could not do anything without the White Man shouldering his burden and rushing to the rescue.

But wars are not won by weapons, they are won by people. “Boots on the ground”, as the Americans call it.

Even with all the help they got, the Libyan rebels, disorganized and poorly armed as they were, have won a remarkable victory.

The Victory Belongs to the People - Can They Keep It ?

This would not have happened without real revolutionary fervor, without bravery and determination. It is a Libyan victory, not a British or a French one.

This has been underplayed by the international media. I have not seen any genuine combat coverage (and I know what that looks like).

Journalists did not acquit themselves with glory. They displayed exemplary cowardice, staying at a safe distance from the front, even during the fall of Tripoli. On TV they looked ridiculous with their conspicuous helmets when they were surrounded by bareheaded fighters.

What came over was endless jubilations over victories that had seemingly fallen from heaven. But these were feats achieved by people – yes, by Arab people.

This is especially galling to our Israeli “military correspondents” and “Arab affairs experts”. Used to despising or hating “the Arabs”, they are ascribing the victory to NATO. It seems that the people of Libya played a minor role, if any.

Why Did NATO Really Do This? - We Shall See

 Now they blabber endlessly about the “tribes”, which will make democracy and orderly governance in Libya impossible.

Libya is not really a country, it was never a unified state before becoming an Italian colony, there is no such thing as a Libyan people. (Remember the French saying this about Algeria, and Golda Meir about Palestine?)

Well, for a people that does not exist, the Libyans fought very well. And as for the “tribes” – why do tribes exist only in Africa and Asia, never among Europeans? Why not a Welsh tribe or a Bavarian tribe?

(When I visited Jordan in 1986, well before the peace treaty, I was entertained by a very civilized, high-ranking Jordanian official. After an interesting conversation over dinner, he surprised me by mentioning that he belongs to a certain tribe.

Next day, while I was riding on a horse to Petra, the rider next to me asked in a low voice whether I belonged “to the tribe”. It took me some time to understand that he was asking me if I was a Jew. It seems that American Jews refer to themselves in this way.)

The Infamous Omar Mokhtar

The “tribes” of Libya would be called in Europe “ethnic groups” and in Israel “communities”. The term “tribe” has a patronizing connotation. Let’s drop it.

“All those who decry NATO’s intervention must answer a simple question: who else would have done the job? Humanity in the 21st century humanity cannot tolerate acts of genocide and mass-murder, wherever they occur.”

All those who decry NATO’s intervention must answer a simple question: who else would have done the job?

Humanity in the 21st century humanity cannot tolerate acts of genocide and mass-murder, wherever they occur.

It cannot look on while dictators butcher their own peoples. The doctrine of “non-interference in the internal affairs of sovereign states” belongs to the past.

We Jews, who have accused mankind of standing idly by while millions of Jews, including German citizens, were exterminated by the legitimate German government, certainly owe the world an answer.

I have mentioned in the past that I advocate some form of effective world governance and expect it to be in place by the end of this century. This would include a democratically elected world executive that would have military forces at its disposal and that could intervene, if a world parliament so decides.

For this to happen, the United Nations must be revamped entirely. The veto power must be abolished. It is intolerable that the US can veto the acceptance of Palestine as a member state, or that Russia and China can veto intervention in Syria.

Is It Time For a New UN Order ?

Certainly, great powers like the US and China should have a louder voice than, say, Luxemburg and the Fiji Islands, but a two thirds majority in the General Assembly should have the power to override Washington, Moscow or Beijing.

That may be the music of the future, or, some may say, a pipe dream. As for now, we live in a very imperfect world and must make do with the instruments we have. NATO, alas, is one of them.

The European Union is another, though in this case poor, eternally conscience-stricken Germany, has paralyzed it. If Russia or China were to join, that would be fine.

This is not some remote problem. Gaddafi is finished, but Bashar al-Assad is not. He is butchering his people even while you read this, and the world is looking on helplessly.

Any volunteers for intervention?

 

 

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Posted by on Aug 26 2011, With 0 Reads, Filed under Editor, Libya, WarZone. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

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111 Comments for “Understanding the opposition to NATO’s intervention in Libya”

  1. What a shocking article. I would have never expected that from you, Uri.

    The Hitler regime was the legitimate German government? I always thought it was a authoritarian, ruthless, aggressive, violent, racist, treasounous, murderous dictatorship. But hey, I guess all Germans still love that. And through WWII they exported this success model in the whole world. That’s why there is no opposition to NATO and wars. Just in case we need somebody who will assume the guilt and will pay for it, take the Germans. They are rich and have a lot of experience. So hopefully NATO will be butchering back, not only in Syria. To protect me, my interests, Israel and of course civilians. Freedom, liberty, democracy and solidarity for the ones who deserve it. When you found my sarcasm, you can search for my pacifism. Best wishes from a humanitarian German from Munich, ready for intervention.

  2. Since when did the U.S. government ever give a rats ass damn about the freedom and liberty of other nations? The history of this government’s involvement throughout the world for more than a century has been one of imperialist aggression. The invasion of Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Philippines, during the Spanish-American war highlights just what the government will do in order to secure comfort for American corporations.Do you know what the U.S. army did to the Philippine guerrillas after Spain was defeated? They got their reward for helping America. Ditto throughout Latin America…..El Salvador, Chile, Guatemala, Argentina, and pretty soon it will be Venezuela’s turn to be “freed”. In every case the replacement government ie: dictator, was worse, much worse and in every case it has backfired on America.
    The U.S now supports some of the most tyrannical regimes in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and throughout the entire Arabia peninsula. The regimes are not what you would consider democratic or supportive of freedom and liberty unless you have a billion dollars to spend there.
    How about Iran? there’s another one for you…yes, the good ole Shah. Assuming power at the behest of Occidental petroleum( BP) with the help of the CIA.. Of course we all know what a great guy he was. And of course there’s good ole boy Saddam also helped into power by the CIA, backed by rotten Ronnie Raygun and GHW (child molester) Boosh.
    So it goes on and on and on until we run out of monsters to destroy, many are of our own manufacture, some on the orders from israhell.
    In short, I don’t believe the U.S. or NATO is involved in this for any altruistic reasons. I may be wrong about this as maybe just maybe those who control the government have suddenly become humanitarian. But I doubt it.
    Gaddafi was no doubt a tyrant and a dictator, but when did that matter to the U.S., Britain and France? After all there were a number of S.O.B.’s in power when it was their S.O.B.
    So what’s the difference?
    reflect upon words of Pres. John Adams warning against trying to destroy monsters in the world.
    Or How about Pres. George Washington’s warning about avoiding foreign entanglements and showing favoritism towards one nation over another?
    Seems that we don’t pay much attention to what the founding fathers tried to teach us.
    Maybe we should take a good long look at who really controls America’s foreign policies….

  3. I can’t even find the article, not jim dean’s anyway

  4. A good piece of Imperial and Western Bullshit,a false propaganda against Qaddafi.Qaddafi was a brutal dictator,hated by Libyan people and liked by those who are anti-American,is as true as was statement of Luciferian Bush,Sr.and Bush Bin Satan,Jr.that Saddam had WMDs and was a threat to security of US empire.

    • When we needed to go after Saddam, when he gassed the Kurds, we sat on our asses, Bush had sold them down the river.
      When the oil companies and Israel snapped their fingers, his yellow bellied asshole son sent in the troops.

      On the rare occasion, real rebels, a real war and a real asshole, Gaddafi, America, like any broken clock, is right twice a day.

      Uri’s piece is brillliant and YOU ARE NOT.

      Am I wrong? Check my batting average.
      g

  5. Venusian High Council

    Back we cannot give him! Main course tonight he is! Force-feeding him old G.W.Bush video clips have we been. As much as seething rage the flavor of human flesh nothing else improves. About our English we apologize. A bug there has been in our translator robot since Star Wars it watched.

  6. I am pretty much a fair minded person when it comes to issues of colonialism or imperialism or aggressionism. I was in the army and got hurt and have been since discharged honorably. Being in Iraq a couple of tours and actually enjoyed the whole saga there. However, the people there always told us this” please take Saddam Hussein out, and please don’t try to change the way we live” I felt their demands and concerns for a culture or a way of life or a word known as “CHANGE” is pretty scary. Those people who view or hate USA are sore losers in all counts, but I would also point out our mistakes as a US citizen who fought to preserve the dignity of my country our fellow citizens that If USA or NATO were in the front line to help Lybian rebels, why couldn’t they take front line in Dafur, in Rwanda, and other states? I know every help is tit for tat, but let’s us (USA or NATO) to show that we’re not just for tit for tat but also human righters.

  7. Very interesting article (mix of true facts and limited hang out infos) defending the NATO (New World Order Army) intervention in Libya.
    Can Mr Avnery or Dean add a few FACTS to their article : like Gaddafi was in power for over 40 Years with all the support from the West especially from France…The Zionist Hypocrite Nicolas SARKOZY of France ( in fact a Khazar nobility from Hungary) invited Gaddafi in Paris last Year, the “Evil and ruthless dictator” was a guess of honor of the Sarkozy Government for almost a month in 2010, not to mention the amount of weapons UK ,France, Russia and the United States sold him for the past 40 years. THIS OPERATION COULD BE CALL “REGIME CHANGE”…we saw it before with Saddam Hussein who was a CIA asset for years, while being chief of security for the Bath Party and then promoted by the CIA and the West as American Puppet “Good” dictator. Ronald Reagan and the Russians sold him poison Gas in 1986 to help him fight “Evil” Iran and instead he used it against his own people… THEN WHEN THE PUPPET WANTED TO CONTROL HIS OWN OIL AND USE EURO INSTEAD OF DOLLAR FOR THE OIL TRANSACTIONS, SO HE WAS OFFICIALLY DECLARED : “EVIL DICTATOR” By the Anglo American Zionist Empire and their New World Order ARMY (NATO) and had to be “REMOVED”, FOR THE GOOD OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE (Of course) …IN THE PROCESS WE KILLED MORE THAN ONE MILLION IRAQI…BUT NOW WE HAVE A NEW PUPPET GOVERNMENT AND ABOVE ALL A NEW CENTRAL BANKING SYSTEM….ZIONIST ROTHSCHILD STYLE….LIBYA IS NEXT….Yes Indeed ! …POWER TO THE PEOPLE MR AVNERY ! NOW COULD YOU TELL ME WHAT KIND OF GOVERNMENT AND BANKING SYSTEM WILL BE SET UP BY NATO (and their New World Order) AFTER THE ELIMINATION OR REMOVAL OF GADDAFI ?
    THE FACT IS THIS “STAGED REVOLUTION” BY NATO INTELLIGENCE IS JUST THERE TO REPLACE A PUPPET BY ANOTHER ONE WHO FIT THE ANGLO AMERICAN ZIONIST AGENDA BETTER.

  8. Bill, the school bus driver

    Don’t forget – Libya was one of very few countries who didn’t need to “borrow” from the big time bankers of London. Libya was financially secure, and had little real poverty. This is inexcusable in the eyes of “The City.”

  9. yes Uri -i’ve heard of the good too, quite a bit. I’ve heard of the evil too – primarily a bunch of self serving conclusory statements, but about the worst of which is generalized statements that maybe a few hundred of his enemies have been killed over a 42 alleged reign of terror -most of which occurred a couple of decades ago during the Cold War — -the totality of which sounds like a bad week where American drones accidentally kill a few hundred civilians. Be honest Uri -truth be known, i would bet you that NATO carpet bombing of Libya in the last two months (these humanitarian missions we hear about) have killed a lot more Libyan civilians that Ghadaffi is alleged to have murdered in 42 years. Of course my opinion does not count for squat, as i am just another of those self hating, self loathing Americans -and a Ron Paul supporter at that. .

    • carpet bombing?

      don’t you mean rug bombing?

      Perhaps tile floor bombing?

      no carpets in libya….or i call them rugs anyway…

      i guess you could call them carpets

      When, exactly, did the US bring in the B52s for this?

      Got pictures?

      Anything to back this up?

      No?

      Try one of those conspiracy websites, I am sure they can dig up a photo from Vietnam for you.

      they are good at that.

  10. In response to “Libyan WMD – Veterans Today and Wikileaks Were Right” of August 25, I posted this:

    * * * * *

    NATO Partnership in Libya Serves as Model, Panetta Says

    Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta today called U.S. support for the NATO mission that’s helping opposition forces make progress against Moammar Gadhafi’s regime Libya an example of the international cooperation that will be critical in the future.

    “It is a good indication of the kind of partnership and alliances that we need to have for the future if we are going to deal with the threats that we confront in today’s world,” Panetta told students during addresses at both the Naval Postgraduate School and Defense Language Institute Foreign Language Center.

    http://www.militaryonlinecollege.org/military-education-news/nato-partnership-in-libya-serves-as-model-panetta-says.html

    Yep — “…serves as a model…in the future…” Right out of the horse’s mouth. You can’t attack my source on that one, Gordon.

    He was intimating that Libya was not a one-shot deal. Given that we’ve been inundated for the past several weeks by HIllary’s bluster and not-so-veiled threats that Assad has to go, the signs are all there that Syria has already been selected as the next target. And then which country? Lebanon, Iran, Pakistan?

    Cui bono? Israel.

    * * * * *

    Today, August 27, Haaretz published this:

    Ambassador Oren: Israel is very concerned about Syrian WMDs
    Wall Street Journal report claims Israel, United States monitoring Syrian chemical weapons; concern is that weapons may be transferred to Hezbollah and Hamas.

    By Barak Ravid

    Israel is worried about the possibility that the Syrian military may transfer chemical weapons to terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah or Hamas due to instability within Syria, said Israeli Ambassador to the United States Michael Oren.

    In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, Oren stated that Israel is “very concerned about the status of Syria’s weapons of mass destruction, including chemical weapons,” and that both Israel and the United States are “watching this situation very carefully.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/ambassador-oren-israel-is-very-concerned-about-syrian-wmds-1.380979

    Yep, it sure looks like Syria is the next target for NATO’s liberation!

  11. British people are the filthiest of all. they are worse than Zionists. they robbed, stole, raped, murdered and at the same time wrote the history books. they should be rejected at any place they wish to invade. these parasites smell worse than rotten pigs.

  12. I wishe that Iran will nuke Israell and all that vermine zionist jews!

    • Peter, Years ago Gaddafi was visiting Zimbabwe when the white farmer irradications were going on. Being the great PR man that G was he advised them not to spread out the killing of the white farmers over several years as that would just create a lot more bad press. What he suggested was just picking out one week, and then just kill them all.

      The benefits would be that no UN rescue mission would be needed as they would all be dead, and the new people who got all of their stuff would be staunch Mugabee supporters for life. But here is the good part.

      Gaddafi then said that this was such a good idea, that the ‘kill all the white people in one week’ should be applied to all of Africa, and then all of their problems would be solved. But the dude seemed to forget that that included him.

  13. Here’s how Uri blows his cover this time.
    He puts Milosovic and atrocities in Bosnia in the same sentence. The Kangaroo Court had painted itself into a corner and no conviction was possible. This became evident after James Bissett, former Canadian Ambassador to Yugoslavia, testified on his behalf.
    http://www.antic.org/Weblog/2006/03/he-james-bissett-on-his-last-meeting.html
    We are now supposed to believe that Milosovic somehow decided to poison himself knowing he would be vindicated.

    As for the crimes in Bosnia, I met refugees form Bosnia, Muslims, Roman Catholics, Orthodox, Croats and Serbs. Some of them married to someone from another “group”. They all stated that there were atrocities on all sides. One couple was from a town near Srebrenica (Mocovic?) that was being attacked after dark, by Muslim bands from Srebrenica. Many towns in the area were under like attacks. Their story is that the Serbs asked the “peacekeepers” to put a stop to it because if they didn’t, the Serbs would. When the Serbs did go, they questioned the population about who as responsible, executed those identified, and freed the rest.

    Most of you probably ignore the irony of the Milosovic being demonized. Clinton called him a dictator. The election rules in Yugoslavia at that time, required him to be elected by a majority of voters 50%+1 with a minimum of 60% of the eligible voters voting. The “stolen” election wasn’t about him winning, it was about none of the candidates getting 50%+1 of the more than 60% who voted. This meant there had to be a 2nd round of voting between the top 2 candidates. The irony of the 2000 Presidential election is hilarious.

    As for Kosovo, a local forensic pathologist was named to investigate the mass graves. He was going to prove Milosovic was the “Butcher of the Balkans”. On return, he admitted that the number and size of graves found were exaggerated, and in fact they found some with Serbs in them. They probably committed suicide and buried themselves.

    Many people would call me liberal, but labels mean nothing. I am opposed to intervention, because those intervening have ulterior motives, and those motives will be promoted as “freedom” but in reality are just another form of oppression. I detest my federal government, that doesn’t mean I support other countries meddling in our affairs. In fact the reason I detest the government is that it allows foreign governments to have too much influence in our affairs. That problem is for me and my fellow countymen to sort out, and no one else’s.

    I have read Uri’s articles for years. They have never rung true.

    • I have not read another single thing Uri wrote, but also discerned falsehood. And with his long apparent long history, I would assign “willing intent” to deceive.

  14. NATO countries have a history of colonialism, the USA has a history of supporting Israel. We have all screwed countries over for their resources and we have supported dictators being installed, like the one in Afghanistan, so that the USA can set up military bases in country where the majority of the people do not want them. Sadly, this means that even if we take action to help the people in any country, our motives quite rightly, are going to be seriously questioned.

  15. “Criminality is criminality across the board and what was done to Libya by NATO, the UN and any foreign agency was as much a crime against a sovereign people for foreign profit as anything that has been or may yet be claimed about its erstwhile frontman.”

    This comment alone is the most important one here………
    All would like to see more written offerings on how to bring to account the perps, of “NATO” and the “COALITION” and where are the offerings of all those involved(must be many) and wanting to “blow their whistles”
    PLEASE ANSWER ……..

    • Well Jon, Do you not think the Libyan people are going to do this if they choose?? Are we to get out in front of them, running them over with the fire truck?? And we justify that how???

      Did anyone notice the head of the NTC, the judge, said he would stand trial for what he did during the Gaddafi years. He turned down the appeals of a lot of condemned Libyans, among other things. I though that was some rare leadership. He’s going to walk the walk. We shall see what kind of line forms behind him. I am willing to bet it will be short.

      But I disgree totally with the quote. The ruthless leader is the lowest of the low. Furriners working you over…well…you just expect that.

      • “Are we to get out in front of them, running them over with the fire truck??”

        You’ve already done that and cheered about it.

        “And we justify that how???”

        Precisely the question many of us have been demanding from VT writers who should represent the principle of non-interference as our nation’s founders themselves vehemently espoused.

        • I am a Marine, not a kiss ass. ON a very rare occasion, we had the privelege of bombing the shit out of gaddafi, his criminal kids, his phony army, half african, half hired from central asia. Given the chance, I would have enjoyed shooting the SOB myself but was not asked.
          Once in a lifetime we get it right and you, of course, arrogant as usual, don’t have a clue. Your left handed defenses of Bush, buried beneath your “both paries are the same and Obama is bad” rhetoric isn’t working.

          g

          • There is no greater kiss-ass than those who willingly volunteer to go destroy other lands and kill their inhabitants solely for the profit of the international crime syndicate. The fact that you retain this demented aggressivist posture so many decades hence only highlights the effectiveness of the military establishment’s mental conditioning.

            The fact that you cannot comprehend the true nature of the political theater you so readily buy into based on surface rhetoric and appearances, whilst so erroneously smearing those who challenge you with patently false slurs, undermines your intellectual integrity further G.

            The fact that you should know better but choose to buy into the myth only shames yourself and noone else. Others here have tried to point that out as well but your militaristic obstinance precludes you from accepting valid constructive criticism.

            Until you are prepared to look behind the curtain and put away your years of illusory left/right dichotomy any attempt to inform you are of course bound to fall on deaf ears. As much as the vast majority of clueless sleepwalkers in this insulated cesspool refuse to see how the system truly operates.

      • Jimmy this “quote” ““Criminality is criminality across the board and what was done to Libya by NATO, the UN and any foreign agency was as much a crime against a sovereign people for foreign profit as anything that has been or may yet be claimed about its erstwhile frontman.”

        ….isn’t about “The ruthless leader”….its about the actions of those who think they are above the “Laws” rules made up by the very freaks that are breaking them….do you think that they should go unpunished ????? What about your ruthless leaders bring them down NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. Re,comment: there seems to be some jitters here why is just a guess, however it would appear that there is an agenda, from some end, to split the cohesiveness of the group that has gathered here…….where it is coming from is not clear…….to date V.T and the writers involved have been outstanding with the candid and the real reports…..and deserve that respect…….for all that have the “jitters” are advised to stand by and watch what will come down the wash……..see what is going to shake out …….maybe you will be surprised at the amount of “CROW” you will have to eat….bon-appeti

    • Amen here Jon Jon. We may not get the last detail, but Libya is going to be an open doll house now. A lot of theories and arguments are going to be laid to rest…and I am sure…some new ones emerge.

  17. If I write an accurate response to the claims made by UA here, my post will swell three times larger as the article. I’ll pass. Not only I am not surprised by his position on Libya, it is a defining moment for all who have correctly identified UA for a long time despite his utmost theatrical faculty. UA is one of an array of Judaized Khazarians who have taken up the mission of converting gentile anti-Zionists to Zionists without their knowledge. Israel Shamir, Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, Amy Goodman, Michael Moore, … and most likely the new addition to the roster Gilad Azmon. They all come in bit of different flavor but they all share important characteristics: they never question the two legs of Zionism ie. the Holocaust and Israel’s right to exist; they never admit that they are not Semite; their anti-Zionist activism are always in gentile languages and not Hebrew as their targets are the gentiles and not the Zionists or other Jews; they never admit to the existence of the global Khazarian tyrannist configuration with a global strategy; they never use their lingual ability and organizational familiarity to debunk a Khazarian crime mafia (like the Kosher tax mafia) and have them arrested; they particularly try to change the definition of Zionism from doctrine to behavioral category; none of them have caused a scratch on Zionist movement.

    The most important aspect of the invasion of Libya is your take on “national sovereignty” which is the litmus test of being on the wave length of the global tyrannists or on the side of independence of nationhood. The fact that these global tyrannists have nothing else to offer to justify shredding nations into pieces except how bad a thug like Qadhaffi or Saddam or OBL are must be evident to any one who does not let them manipulate their emotions.

    • That’s very well said, Art.

    • Did you have to put Norman finkelstein in that group? Doesn’t he deserve some credit for “The Holocaust Industry”? Do you have to go all the way to earn any credit for one’s efforts? he got kicked out of depaul for taking on Dershowitz -does he really need to be taken out by a Mossad ht team before we give him some credit?

  18. Peter,
    You are misbehaving

  19. peter
    and they kicked his ass
    something we, in the US, have yet to do….
    too many of the phony crybaby types that are whining over gaddafi, Libya’s answer to George W Bush

  20. John,
    Jim Dean took the article over. I put it up at 3:55.
    Sometimes when dean edits, his computer defaults to the “no comments allowed” mode.
    g

    • Yep…my fault…I confess. But if you fire me, you won’t be able to Nixon me anymore.

      That said, if we had a web cam on us, you folks would not believe how much work this is and how fast stuff has to be done. I will never catch Bionic Man Gordon but I am a hell of a lot faster for trying…but the goofs come with that.I am not doing sabotage…just image and layout work and correcting mistakes ti make these visually easier to read.

      If someone wanted to say thanks for all this extra laborious magazine and multimedia layout work were are trying to do for your enjoyment it would make me feel all warm and fuzzy. The elves quit a long time ago. Gaddafi bought them off.

      • I don’t believe you. it must be part of some vast, pernicious conspiracy.

      • Thanks Jimmy

      • Indeed how about……. NO MORE HOLOCAUST PROPAGANDA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Paul
          I went to both Dachau and Auschwitz and took my own photos.
          Dachau is near Munich..easy drive.
          Auschwitz….outside Krakow….hours east of Berlin….although Poland is a great visit.
          Auschwitz and environs is KREEPY

        • Jon, We have published a lot of material on the holocaust industry. The usuals terminators have not laid a glove on us because they know it would be waste of time. We would just tell them where they could stick it, and they know this. I must say I’m surprised to see a regular reading whacking us as holocaust promoters.

          Gordon has an extensive background peice up to today mentioning this holohype again. We have covered it…more than a little. But we also are not a one rope cowboy.

          Hell, I could write stuff for months on the holohype monster…I have this much material on it…but then nothing else would get done, and we have some major doo doo heading our way.

  21. Ahh.. Peter. He is the despised opposition. He is completely censored out of the media herebecause he is such a devastating critic. And you would throw him away?

    The reference and framing were obviously the Instilled Memory part. For example, the elites watching the silliness in these comments sometimes…they would all be sleeping like babies. You are a walking validation of the Instilled Memory part…which is why I put it in.

    I’m sure glad you aren’t a Libyan. They would not have a chance at forming a new government with you around :-)

    • Peter
      Don’t disagree with you on this. I think Avnery avoids the issue to keep a base in Israel.
      Nobody in Israel speaks against the holocaust.
      You wouldn’t live an hour.
      g

    • Peter, It’s what those folks in Libya think. While so many of them were couped up the field was open for all of us to pontificate. Some of us, like VT, even had actual sources…imagine that?

      But as the gun fire slackens off, the water comes on, the blood gets hosed out of the hospital wards and hallways, and the rotting bodies are buried, the Libyans are going to have quite a lot to say on this…and will we be conduits. It won’t be our story any more. We were just house sitting until the owners got back.

      We are trying to get over there to broaden the source base and collect a lot more first person stuff.

  22. entire stories from this week have been erased with comments and yes there is some fishy fishy smells coming from here and no one wants to answer up hmmmmmm well good while it lasted is best guess …….

    • we left your stupid comment up
      it would have been a favor if we had taken it down

      • Thank you Gordon this may be “stupid” to you ….
        however it is an “exercise” remember those Gordon ……

  23. Wow! Just when I think “Veterans Today” can’t go any lower, what do they do, why, they show me even greater depths of disingenuous bullsh*t.

    Uri Avnery is “controlled opposition”, just like Noam Chomsky et al. That’s how they operate. Is there anyone here that doesn’t understand that? That’s Jews 101 material.

    Avnery’s bullshit is simply insulting. He pretends that there’s no such thing as principle. (Although being a Jew, I suppose he may have a plausible excuse for that).

    He’s suggesting that anybody opposed to ZOG’s Zionist crusades is only opposed because they “hate” the U.S. and NATO? And VT parrots this embarrassing Jew drivel and then expects to be taken seriously?

    For that matter you could also say we’re opposed to Jewish subversion of our government not because we’ve lost our country, our rights, our economic assets, etc, but because we’re “anti-semitic”. ROTFLMAO!

    Avnery’s hapless bullsh*t would almost be funny if it wasn’t so predictable and so pathetic.

    • I’ve only recently been coming over here fairly regularly and at first found some common ground, but with this, I’m wondering if I should waste my time with any of the writers. This is pretty wild.

      • Big Al, These are just a bunch of long time keyboard warriors. It’s how we have fun. We stopped shooting people years ago and this is all the authorities will let us do anymore.

        If this were taken away from us…well…we could have ended up fighting for Gaddafi :-)

        • Well ya know, lots of other things talked about on this site, much of it related to the plight of people in our country. Alot of people might have a hard on for Gaddafi, but then shrivel up when it comes to the people here. Proof is in the pudding, look what’s happened there and not happened here. The truth is hard to come by nowadays and getting muddier all the time. Time for straight talk imo. I know the people at the bottom.

    • Nelson,
      We know who Avnery is. He is a hero around the world.
      Your rhetoric here is, when examined closely, pure Zionist.
      Is this on purpose, are you working for Abe Foxman or is it that you just don’t know better?

      • You think the people here can’t see right through your infantile statist drivel? Your own words make you look like far more of an asshole than I ever could with my my “Zionist” [sic] “rhetoric”. So please, keep it up. It’s very effective.

      • There is no person who has stood up against Zionism as long and at as much risk other than Vanunu.

        • So what says Vanunu on Gadaffi? And since Moammar is an agent of israel, and the U.S. Congress has never once -ever– since 1947–stood up to israel on any matter of importance to them – why are we all now expected to believe that this time it is different? First time EVER. If this is true, i supppose we should all be encouraged. A U.S congress and president has grown some balls. I wonder what Walt and Mearshimer say about this. I certainly respect their opinions.

        • To Pete –

          hey, at least you have the balls to admit you’re anti-Semite. Nobody else on this site has done that.

    • //Avnery.. pretends that there’s no such thing as principle.//
      This is actually a common tactic all of them use to shield themselves from getting caught into a corner. Noam Chomsky says he is an anarchist, Gilad Azmon says ‘he is a philosopher and excels in the art of asking questions (leaving the answers to the politicians)’, … We must look really browned up after listening to them.

      • Basically, Avnery is throwing the “anti-semite” epithet around. Some “dissident”. ROTFL! He’s a transparent fraud, just like everything else Jewish.

        The Germans didn’t mistreat Jews because the Jews destroyed their country, no no no no no. Rather, the Germans mistreated Jews because of their collectively twisted psyche: the Germans simply had an irrational “hatred” of Jews.

        The Moslems don’t “hate” “the West” because “the West” is propping up their puppet governments and overthrowing their leaders and exploiting their resources and attacking them and killing them by the hundreds of thousands, etc., etc., etc., no. Rather, they “hate” “us” (irrationally), simply because of our “freedom”.

        Likewise, according to Jew Avnery, opponents of ZOG’s Zionist crusade in Libya aren’t opposed because of any committment to principles or any other logical reason (e.g., we simply can’t afford it), but simply because of our irrational hatred of the U.S./NATO (and all other things Jewish).

        And then Gordon calls this hapless moron Avnery a “hero”? And then he expects to be taken seriously?

        • Nelson,
          We hve a problem with some, you are one of them.
          Zionism is a political disease.
          However, those who hate Jews almost always hate Muslims and those of African descent also.
          Then, when I talk to them, they talk about how they hate Vietnamese and Chinese.
          Albert Einstein ran the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute, the German weapons lab, during WW1.
          If you visited battlefields from WW1, the German cemeteries, you would see MANY Jewish dead.
          This kind of blind hate comes from too much time on the internet and too little time in the real world.
          g

          • Generally speaking, what you have a “problem” with are people who tell the truth, as ugly and unsettling as it may be, and I’m one of those people, yes.

            Long before there was “Zionism”, Jews were collectively thrown out of almost every country in Europe. Why is that?

            I’ll tell you why: Because the Jews always act against the host society (in this case “ours” for example) as a collective. That’s what they’ve always done. The Jewish community in our midst is not compatable with our professed moral beliefs and our constitution. The Jewish community, which collectively and aggressively pursues its selfish, destructive goals in the midst of its generous hosts, is simply not compatable with our society.

            You can call me names if you want to, and you can tell me I’m full of sh*t, but the evidence is all around you, and the evidence speaks for itself.

            ##############################################################

            “For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany’s ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews.” — Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in “Histoire de l’Arme’e Allemande”by Jacques Benoist–Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303).

            “We Jews, we, the destroyers, will remain the destroyers forever. NOTHING that you will do will meet our needs and demands. We will forever destroy, because we need a world of our own, a God-world, which it is not in your nature to build.” (Maurice Samuel, “You Gentiles” p.155)

      • Art…’browned up’….that’s a riot. I have never heard the term befor…but like it.

        See, the comment boards due teach us stuff even when we are not looking for it. :-)

        Hell, I though that was a barbecue them…or something for a Coppertone ad !!!

  24. “Well, sorry, count me out. I have this irrational abhorrence of bloody dictators, of genocidal mass-murderers, of leaders who wage war on their own people.”

    Strange Jimmy you have a long series of Mass Murderers/ “Bloody Dictators” as your countrys leaders …yet as a nation of peoples you are doing nothing to stem that tide …what gives there ???????

    “I am ready to support even the devil, if that is necessary to put an end to this kind of atrocities. I won’t even ask about his precise motives. Whatever one may think about the USA and/or NATO – if they disarm a Milosevic or a Gaddafi, they have my blessing.”

    Jimmy ..god nor the devil are going to step in ….and help you …..American peoples PLEASE !!!!!!!!! help yourselves …….disarm USA/NATO (this would have the blessings of many more)…..and you will have your wish of peace……..

    • Jon Jon, You sound like a good guy to share a foxhole with…when the last days come.

      I think Jefferson had it nailed: ‘Merchants have no country.’

      • Well Jimmy know this, “the last days” will not be comeing any time soon,
        certainly not in our life time ….that would be just to merciful it apears that the perps have other ideas for the mass “stupid” just more hell on earth, suffering and pain for all…..the time to stand is now and we won’t need that “foxhole” later ….

  25. Indeed most persons are not that well informed …..however not all of us are so ill-informed …..

  26. “you would be dead” including Mr Averny
    Yes this is an interesting question/comment ….would you not agree ????…..
    have noticed too that you only answer back who you want …g don’t we all deserve answers…….?????

  27. Can’t we hate both?

  28. I am a jewish secret agent?

    the number of effective people i know of is less than a dozen

    what i can assure you of is that all those who are openly embarrassing in their racist hate are working for Mr. Foxman…..and make up MANY of our most vocal anti-zionists..

    the ones who never caught on to murdoch or wikileaks for instance or 9/11

    years and years of childish jew bashing and never once did so many of our friends ever touch a third rail

    but, why tell you this, you obviously have figured it out yourself

    g

  29. It is difficult to trust the present leaders of the United States or of NATO. I am a supporter of the constitutional form of government in these United States. Though, not perfect, it is an attempt to organize around a system of laws that represents the rights of the individual and of course, was written by people whom understood the threat that government can have when corrupted. The founders warned of the threat of foreign entanglement and the London bankers. Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, Noriega, and others were dictators of countries all possessing oil, cocaine, opium and great wealth. When these dictators no longer would do business on the terms of the MIC and the Israeli leaders, then, they had to go. How many dictators are now supported by the United States as long as they continue to follow the guidelines of the MIC? I grew up within a system that prided itself on negotiation and respect for others. We were told to negotiate and do business with all people, not steal their wealth and bomb their people. We now ‘bomb the shit out of’ selected countries that do not do business on our terms. Iraq, a war based on lies and deceit, Afghanistan, more of the same for control of gas pipelines and strategic positioning in that part of the world. We threaten Iran, Syria, Libya and at what cost? I support helping other countries and their people but it is very difficult to believe anything coming from our leaders in Washington as We know they are criminals; implicated in the planning, demolition and coverup with Israel on our WTC towers in New York. No proper investigation has been done to date on this false flag event. Many of those involved have not been brought to justice. All the players go on to work in the media industry and sell their books. Silverstein and others continue to do business even after admitting that, “we had to pull it”. Mossad agents cheer across the river as the towers are destroyed. Then Chertoff releases them back to Israel. The government and media will not discuss this issue. ‘How in Hell’ can we trust the motivation of our leaders? We hesitate to help others unless there is a strategic interest. I think we need to bring our troops home and rebuild our country. I dont believe in World government. Individual countries and their people should manage their own affairs. We can trade and offer our products and skills to other countries and develop peaceful relationships through diplomacy and trade, not bombs filled with depleted uranium, wreaking havoc on innocent people.

    • I share Doug’s thoughts exactly.

      Because of the U.S. governments’ recent track record, I now presume their actions are bad, and that any group that they or NATO were attacking were good.

      Gordon, you could be right on this. But, it is confusing, cheering for the U.S./NATO when they have acted so despicably before.

      And, I have no interest in having my son, or my treasure, be compelled to fight to quell bloodshed inside another country. To hell with Mr. Avnery’s idea on this.

      I was a Navy LT. I have told my son I do not want him to apply to the USNA. The blinder’s have been lifted from my eyes, that we waste our blood and treasure to line contractors’ and politicians’ pockets.

      If my son wants to volunteer in some foreign legion to fight in some civil war or revolution, so be it. But, to have our government commit our troops to such is terrible.

  30. How Myopic, What TRIBE are the Ashkenazim From ? The only terrorists in the middle east are the Zionazi “JEWISH” terrorists. All the Leaders of Talmudia falsely called “Israel” are REAL TERRORISTS. Allowing the Terrorist “JEW” media to somehow put an inverted TELESCOPE on the Talmudic Terrorists behind a WALL of obfuscation while putting “Dictators” like Saddam, Shah, Qhaddafi, Assad, et al..under a 10,000X microscope is just well kinda…”JEWISH” to say the least. For a detailed account of Zionazi atrocities -http://www.palestine-encyclopedia.com/EPP/TOC.htm – By Non-Hebrew, Non-Judahite – Non-Israelite so-called ZIONIST “JEWS”…from Khazaria…Talmudia will soon be reduced to ashes, and the world will be rid of these Reptilian Parasites who made proselytes of the Khazars. No-One on Earth has to be a “JEW” – http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm – Uri can deliver that Truth to all Khazar-Ashkenazim Proselytes to Talmudic Judaism in PALESTINE….who wish to leave in Peace.

  31. John
    I am flabbergasted. You actually don’t know who Uri Avenery is.
    Ouch

    • Since you’ve blocked my ability to respond (an infantile and intellectually dishonest demonstration that only underscores your increasingly apparent aversion to truth and matters of principle) I shall respond here.

      For Mr. Averny, – the self-admitted adherent to the very Zionist ideology that foisted the land thieving pariah entity on Palestine and has maintained it to the present with the help tacit and overt of global militarist bastions like NATO and of course the US political/military/intelligence nexus – to make any criticism about the motives of others is laughable indeed.

      NATO has demonstrated repeatedly the depth of its criminality and its corporatist hegemonic intent, or perhaps G you secretly do approve of the massacre of innocent children and perpetual occupation which has become a NATO/US daily special. Then again maybe the laundered billions from poppy cultivation should just be overlooked because we are “the good guys”.

      Averny can all himself a leftist while he remains rooted in the illegitimate enclave he helped to create through ethnocide, forced expulsion and land clearance. He is certainly no spokesman for truth nor justice. Neither is NATO and neither are presumptive US apologists for wars of aggression against any who have not first landed on our shores in arms.

      • Penumbra I did not get in and I did not criticized any one just tried to follow the suggestion of the article and see how we can be of help. And suggested it would be more useful that polemic if other did also, many have special experience that might be useful. The problem presented was those regarding those exploiter already looking for ways to help themselves. Since many read this paper and military are taken more seriously we could be positively be useful free of charge. Such as avoid a vacuum and be ready with Dream Part two, target would be starting trade relations as a group with the other Arab Spring nations. Start working together for positive ends forget political power, take econ power.
        See any thing bad? the only thing is that Israel hate the idea the last thing she wants is North Africa positive cooperation.

    • Oh Gosh Peter, You are alwasy unhappy about something. Please tell me that you live alone.

  32. Sr nation and should be shunned by everyone who is working to get us out of the clutches of the jew syndicate that has ruined our nation. cott Mollett

    This is the last straw. Vetrans today is now just an extension of the jew media.

    How much did you get for selling your soul Gordon? You are a traitor to you

    • What an idiot you are. Avnery is the leader of Israel’s opposition, a man who has put his life on the line more than any other I know of.
      I read more anger in this than anything else.
      Do this, read about Avnery and then come back and simply post “sorry…but I just wasn’t thinking.”
      I have little to work on with comments and have a bit of a short fuse myself.
      This is a complicated game and you have to be really good to play it.
      This is part of the problem. I run VT, not for people hungry for news but more as an insiders place for the intel community.
      They all know Netanyahu has asked for Avnery’s assassination more than once. (mine too)
      You have no way of knowing this unless you put in the kind of time required, time you just might not have.
      So
      sit down, have a beer…and google: uri avnery
      g

      • Would that be the Israeli opposition which admits that they are the non-Semitic descendants of gentile Khazari political converts to blasphemous Talmudism and as such have no basis beyond terrorist acts and armed land theft to claim any legitimate presence on Palestinian soil?

        Would Mr. Averny relinquish his Israeli identity, perhaps even his “Judaism” (as has Gilad) and move back to the land of his origin? Would he admit Zionism is a racist deluded ideology of hatred and genocide?

        I highly doubt it.

        Foundational principles and their repercussions are what you consistently overlook both in your endorsement of events and of your apparent heroes.

    • Assfincter says what?

  33. The downfall of Libyia has been in the works for over 20 years. “The Committee Of 300″ (TPTB) have long wanted the US to invade and controll ALL of the “undesirable” middle east for the control of their oil, poppy fields etc. This includes Afghanistan, Iraq, Libyia, (Next: Syria and ultimately IRAN!) Mark my words, and these evil bastards are in no hurry – next, Syria will “go down” presumably by unrest (CIA) and then after a lengthy (bogus) period of supposed calm, Iran will be the ultimate and final target. This has the possibilities of being quite ugly (For Israel lol) as Irans missles will be headed in their direction. And they have it coming. But TPTB will hurl the American military into the muck-pile to protect our terrorists (friends) to keep the NWO agenda on track…….coming soon to a country near you!

    • probably

    • “But TPTB will hurl the American military into the muck-pile to protect our terrorists (friends) to keep the NWO agenda on track…….coming soon to a country near you!”

      Which G will no doubt champion so long as they can paint him a picture of a tyrant that must be vanquished by the shining interventionist white knights. All the peoples of these nations are infants incapable of self-determination to those who advance such a globalist claptrap.

      The Law of Nations be damned obviously, pass the drones and fatcat contracts, G has bills to pay.

      • you are now an embarrassment.

        • Penumbra, did Gordon pee in your pool? You seem to have an axe to grind.

          • You are getting very close to spamming. “Talmudic cult”
            Do people still talk like that?
            Been talking with Toben too much.

          • The axe I grind is one of extreme disappointment at the continued inability of certain otherwise respectable writers here at VT to see the lack of consistent principle from one issue to the next. Decrying conspiracy one day and disavowing it the next depending solely upon their emotional dispositions toward the actors involved.

            Such cognitive dissonance undermines their arguments and their integrity. This should upset anyone who values VT as a source of honest critique of the criminal system.

            But to then be responded to in a manner more in keeping with a petulant gradeschooler, and that with slurs that are patently false, is simply disgraceful.

            I expect better, and so should everyone who posts here.

          • Gaddafi and sons were busted long ago as Rothschild CIA shills.
            How the hell do you think he held on for decades, sitting on the med while the US overthrew 2 dozen other governments.
            You have to stop deluding yourself.
            g

        • Yes, the truth is too often an embarrassment.

        • You go, Penumbra.

        • you are mumbling again.
          wait till you have a complete thought before typing.
          g

          • No g penumbra is right and ..pennumbra is a valuable asset to V.T as well as the writers sooooooo really try for some consistancy from here on please…..hopscotchin don’t cut it

  34. Oh dear. Another ‘peace activist’ outs himself. Expect screeds about Hugo Chavez shortly. Note that they’re all writing him into the narrative.

    • John,
      Chavez is the wrong horse to back. NATO won’t be needed to get rid of Chavez. OK, look at it this way.
      Before Chavez, you could drink Venezuelan coffee and they exported millions of tons of cement.
      Today they import both coffee and cement.

      • Yes Gordon. Venezuelans would be much better off with the old oligarchy in power. The 70% poverty rate was freedom doubleplusgood.

      • Mr Gordon Duff, 1-there is no cement here in Venezuela because the revolution is up to here in infrastructure mega-projects. Let me know and i will named them for you but i will give you 2, a super train that crosses the country and 50.000n homes for the poor. – 2- Coffee is bought from Colombia because the revolution wants to help the neighbors by buying their products since they are broke and also to help in alleviating the influx of (what you call wet backs) immigration from that side of the border (five million Colombians live and work here in Venezuela.the revolution is helping Colombia out now that new president (Santos) has changed the aggressive, abusive, neo liberal pro Yankee attitude his predecessor, the narcopresidente and paramilitary ultra right (Uribe) had.. I AGREE WITH YOU ON QADDAFI BUT PLEASE DONT START WITH EL COMANDANTE BECAUSE HE HAS NEVER HARMED ANY ONE unlike Bush and cheney etc You seem to be demonising and defaming Chavez for “future plans”. If i am wrong then please i advise you to do more research regarding the monsters that run this country for 50 years and who had lunch in Miami every day while children starved..

        • chavez will stand for election

          the people of venezuela will either keep him or discard him

          glad to put your opinions in print

          g

        • oh before i forget by saying “nato wont be needed to get rid of chavez you sure sound all cocky like rumsfield when he said “we can open three or more fronts” when north korea tested those nuclear missiles -but he never went there i wonder why.- you can talk but you now limp so cant walk thanks to Ansar al Sunna in Iraq.. whats is needed from you is to liberate your country from the warmongers who are killing it and be less worried about the temperature in Caracas unless you plan to come here and spend some dollars by buying soon to come el new Sucre which will replace your worthless money. say hello to master bernanke and tell him the Fuerzas armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia say “nice beard”

      • So we should invade and liberate Venezuela?

        • certainly, if you can get UN approval and enough help

          good luck with that

          • Sure, Go ahead. Invade.. it would be nice to add some Latin-American flavour to the big pashtun, Sunni, South east asian Sancocho (http://youtu.be/7nirXP36aKc) the us is already in. The question is, do we add ham hocks to it for flavoring purposes? the white house kosher cuisine may deem it unacceptable

  35. A lot of us took a “wait and see” attitude toward NATO’s Libya project. It looks like it may have been justified, perhaps even benevolent for the people of Libya.

    BUT….

    We have no idea what will happen next, nor whether the outcome will be better or worse.

    All we DO know for certain is that there are a lot of not-so-benevolent Western characters now vying for control of Libya and since we helped trash the government without having a better alternative in place, it’s JUST A LITTLE early to brag about one’s prescience or “nobility’, Mr. Avnery.

    • Dave, It’s called a revolution. Think ‘United States’…a long time ago…a revolution…lot’s of adjustment problems…a big civil war later. It’s not a doll house.

  36. we could discuss this for hours
    NATO?
    a joke

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  11. Denuclearize or lose our species: Multigenerational effects of exposure to radiation
  12. Ottawa shooting: Yet another false flag?
  13. Idols of Perversity: Hollywood Punks, Pimps, Whores, and Your Children
  14. Police kill shooter and lose suspect in Ottawa — Canada’s 911?
  15. Saudi king’s nephew admits to Riyadh support for ISIL
  16. Israel, the U.S. Congress and Treason
  17. NEO – Oil Oligarchs continue global takedown
  18. PuppetGate, the Continuing Saga
  19. America’s Fukushima?
  20. War on ISIL exposes US disastrous leadership: Analyst
  1. helpingmind: A famous man once talked about "living space." As for 'atheists' immigrating to "Israel," the joke is as we all know even more strange see the genetic study on ...
  2. helpingmind: Although decoding propaganda is necessary... I wonder if the Israelis can even keep track of their BS? But then all forms of imposture is a Jewish thing, it is why ...
  3. moneytalks: Great idea -- make the comment limit easily seen ( perhaps a dotted line in the comment box ) . Indeed , it is very exasperating to have ...
  4. moneytalks: Alex Jones said his wife is jewish . Who could ever have guessed it . Jews dominate media and most nonjews do not seem to understand how the ...
  5. moneytalks: Another commenter here at VT pointed out that jews simply are much more knowledgeable about the information media matrix and its role in mind control than the nonjewish goyim . ...

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For over 60 years, US Taxpayers have been funding Israel, Palestine and Middle East. Are you happy with return on investment or would you prefer those monies be invested at home instead?

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