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Gilad Atzmon on Ken O’keefe’s Middle East Discuss the J Word

VeteransToday.com staff writers, Gilad Atzmon and former U.S. Marine Ken OKeefe scrutinize the role of language in political discussion and Palestine solidarity discourse in particular.

In this segment they examine Zionism, Israel, Jewish tribalism and the usage of the ‘J word’.


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Short URL: http://www.veteranstoday.com/?p=279908

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Posted by on Dec 3 2013, With 0 Reads, Filed under Editor, Israel, Middle East, Palestine, World. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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11 Comments for “Gilad Atzmon on Ken O’keefe’s Middle East Discuss the J Word”

  1. Thank you Gilad Atzmon and Ken OKeefe.

    I wish I had a link to a George Galloway interview confirming some key points make here. The most important piece which I remember from that interview is this:

    George Galloway asked these questions of a nearly 100 year old Jewish friend native to (I think) Lebanon:

    Q: before 1948 how did the Jewish people in this region of the world identify themselves?
    Galloway said the man pondered for a few seconds and then responded:

    A: ARABS…we were ARABS. Yes we identified ourselves as ARABS.

  2. I like Gilad but….unfortunately…..he is ? Yep as Gordon would say….’Limited hangout’.

  3. Here is an actual example of what Judaism actually is:

    ***http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2013/12/new-hasidic-anti-smartphone-ads-compare-iphones-to-the-evil-syrian-greek-villains-of-the-hanukkah-storty-345.html

    Maybe someone can find some Rabbis or Jewish law school protesting against this …

  4. Rac, what are you on about,,, do you really argue here that JVP is following a religious line? please check your sources.. they are ethnic Jews as oppose to religious Jews…

    • Dear Gilad,

      You are speaking out about cultural nationalism, and that is noteworthy. You make a good point too: if good leftists do not believe in creating national differences between equal people, then why form nationalist leftist groups around the nationality of the ruler? And when you hear good, secular, egalitarian leftists making all kinds of nationalist arguments, or saying that you cannot make disagreements about culture, then why would they do that?

      On the other hand, if people want to form religious groups to express religious critiques, then it is harder to disagree with them doing this. I think it was good when Christian groups opposed Apartheid, for example. If Buddhist groups wanted to oppose discrimination in Buddhist countries against other religions, that seems good too.

      Unfortunately as you bring up in your clip, talking about the intersection of religion, culture, and nationalism, in the case at hand there is overlap, which makes things harder to dissect, doesn’t it? If that’s true, it becomes harder to do this.

      If someone is shutting down debate and they are secular, then you can ask Why?
      On the other hand, what about if they want to make religious, moral, spiritual criticisms and analysis?

      For example, JVP has a Rabbinical Council with several dozen rabbis, “ritual materials and alternative Jewish liturgies”. An even better example if Rabbis for Human Rights, which has a loud voice.

      • I am not trying to give you an easy answer, because there are two poles.
        If someone is (A) secular, a strong leftist and does not care about religion, then what is their basis for (B) opposing critical discussions about nationalist culture?

        On the other hand, if someone wants to form (A) a humanitarian Rabbinical council to (B) address spiritual problems and needs coming out of the conflict, then how can we deny them that possibility?

        As you might guess, sometimes real cases fall between those two poles, but you can ask: what is (A) the nature of the group and (B) their statements? Sometimes A makes sense and B does not, or vice verse.

      • Rac, you are off track again,,, none of the Jewish progressive groups present a religious argument, Torah Jews do and i support them…

        • Gilad,

          I can understand where you are coming from, since there are so few Reformed there, while in the US they accept nationalism. However a small number of Progressives really do have a religious argument. See for example the American Council for Judaism. Their article “Classical Reform Judaism: An Enduring Tradition” in their Winter 2013 publication lays out their non-nationalist religious argument about how the community is just a religious one. This used to be a very common view, as you know, and so there are some who continue this way of thinking. Perhaps VT might even run a story on it.
          Sam Freedman’s June 25, 2010 New York Times article “On Religion” may also jazz things up a bit.

          So, Torah Jews carry what was common thinking before WWII, but there are progressives who also continue that strain. Play on.

  5. Atzmon does make up some things. See 3:55. NEVER is a big word: What about Mamilla?

    For him, it’s just “identity politics”, and religion plays no role. Were that true, there is actually no problem with JVP, because it’s quite valid for groups to form along religious lines like JVP when they will make moral or religious criticisms of problems. That need not be considered identity politics.
    The only valid point Atzmon therefore could make is when a person has no religion and still sets up groups along those lines, because then Atzmon can ask: What is the basis for division?

  6. The jewish folk seem to think they are the world’s ‘daddy’. . . . food for thought.

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=85432

    What say ye now?

    • They are just plagiarists of every Tribe they came in contact with…..their whole Modus Operandi is………..DESTROY!!!!!

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