Malaysian 777 Shot Down Over Ukraine Updated

Israeli owned Fox News propagandizing for a World War, blames Russian ground based missiles

Israeli owned Fox News propagandizing for a World War, blames Russian ground based missiles

Getting Past the Lies

… by  Gordon Duff  with  Jim W. Dean,  VT Editors

Scroll below for Oriental Review’s take on this event:

 

From Jeffrey Silverman, VT Bureau Chief Tbilisi

We spoke to air catastrophe and air-defence specialists. Here are several points they drew our attention towards:

1) It is not a fact that it was a “Buk” air-defence system and in general nothing is fact for the air catastrophe experts before the investigation is carried out.  According to the Chicago convention, Ukraine has to carry out the investigation (as the jet fell down on our territory), and anybody can be included in the committee. For an objective investigation, we have to capture the territory where the jet fell, and at least document the parts of the plane, bodies, traces of the attack part of the missiles’ damage on video (is it is a “Buk,” then metal rods, if it is a C-200 – ball-bearing parts etc.), find the black boxes etc.

2) The air traffic services should have closed this zone for flights right after the AN-26 was taken down yesterday from a height unaccessible for the man-portable air-defence system. Before it was closed up to 8 (we think) kilometres, it was enough for protection from the man-portable system (the missiles are small and have enough fuel for 4-5 kilometres only).  From the perspective of civil aviation safety, the fall of the jet is our mistake and Ukraine should be the one to pay compensations. And this is a huge blow to Ukraine as an aviation transportation operator.

3) As to the “Buk”: in theory, for the system’s successful work, a minimum of 4 out of 5 vehicles within the complex is necessary: the commandment car, the target locator car, the targeting car and the firing point with the missiles.  One can do without the charging car, which transports additional missiles, in case the missiles have been set up on the firing point in advance.  15-17 highly-qualified military specialists are needed to service these military specialists.

4) The principle of action of “Buk” air-defence system: – under close supervision of the commander, the locator determines the target and the coordinates; – the operator of the firing system launches the missile in the given direction; – the targeting car lights up the target with radio waves; – this reflected signal is captured by the self-targeting system of the missiles and its computer corrects the course; – the missile explodes several metres before reaching the plane, sending metal rods flying everywhere that damage the fuselage, the engines, the electric system etc.

5) “Buk’s” range is 40-50 kilometres horizontally and 20-25 vertically. It is a general military weapon (covers the soldiers from air attack directly on the battlefield), and not an air-defence forces weapon.

6) The air-defence system’s locators show three kinds of targets (as radio signals):  – missile (one leading engine); – destroyer, storm jet or a similar small military jet (the turbine of the engine creates a recognisable radio signal); – strategic bombarder or transportation jet (a big plane with many engines). The latter category could include a passenger vessel, as the radio image is identical.

7) If it is a “Buk,” then:  – it could have come from Russian territory. The caterpillar track can take the vehicles even through fields; – it could have been part of the captured Ukrainian Armed Forces division (if they indeed had all the parts of the complex). However military specialists for such accordant work were clearly imported, the reserve army is insufficient in this case; – it could have even worked from Russian territory, somewhere around Kuybyshevo. However, the Boeing was moving with its cruising speed (about 900 km/hr) and during the fall its parts continued falling to the east because of inertia.

8) This could have been not a “Buk,” but a different air-defence system.

9) Additional materials regarding “Buk” – http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/buk-2m/buk-2m.shtml

10) But this is all in theory, we need EVIDENCE – data from civil radars, military equipment, satellites, CONTROL OVER THE CRASH SITE, not to allow the locals to take the parts for scrap metal et

Update:  With the “breaking” stories on the media about “purported/alleged” intercepted phone calls, I am making a call.  Think of this as an election.  Go to Huffington Post, the Daily Beast or Fox News.  The Daily Beast actually accuses Putin himself of doing this.  Of course, that publication is owned by Jane Harmon, accused Israeli master spy, caught by FBI trying to arrange for the very illegal release of Jonathan Pollard.

Israel did it.  Why?  No one else could, no one else gains anything, call it cover for Gaza, call us all anti-semites or self-hating Jews or whatever.  This is part of a criminal rampage.

Breaking:  From Global Travel Industry News:

ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.

According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.

Putin controversy continues:

Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 298, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.

LIVE  UPDATES:Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash in Ukraine

“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing  intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was  close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters.  The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the  Malaysian aircraft – 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the  news agency on condition of anonymity.

“The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions  are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote  distance they are almost identical”, the source added.

At the same time, there have been reports contradicting Intefax’s  report that was the first and the only media source to publish  the news, saying that Presidential plane was not flying over  Ukraine at the same time.

As a source told Gazeta.ru online news portal, Putin’s plane does  take off from Vnukovo-3 [the terminal that accepts business  jets], but the president does not fly over the conflict-gripped  neighboring country.

“Putin has only one jet – Board One, he does not fly other  planes. This plane always takes off from Vnukovo-3, but the  presidential plane have not been flying over Ukraine for a  while,” the source at Vnukovo-3 terminal said.

President Putin was on his way from Brazil, where he attended the  BRICS summit, to Moscow.

‘Tragedy would’t have taken place if there was peace in Ukraine’

Ukraine should bear responsibility for Malaysian airliner  tragedy, said the head  of the Russian state at a meeting on economic issues, which he  proposed to start with a minute of silence in memory of the  victims of the disaster.

Israel:

Finger pointed at Israel:  Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, former Jesuit and confirmed “nutter” let his Israeli handlers put his “nutters” in the ringer this time.  “They” chose the weakest minded western leader possible to peddle an outlandish story, one that leads back to Tel Aviv, increasingly recognized as the puppet masters behind the Kiev junta.

Australian PM: ‘Russian-Backed Rebels’ Appear To Be Behind Malaysia Plane Crash

Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said on Friday that “Russian-backed rebels” appeared to be behind the shooting down of a Malaysia Airlines passenger jetliner over eastern Ukraine

Unconfirmed:  Malaysian plane mistaken for Putin’s private jet which had flown over the area only moments before, leaving Israel and the Kiev junta as prime suspects.  This may well have been an assassination attempt on Putin.

We have people on the scene now (1:45PM EST) who have found a bag of passports and medical equipment.  We will keep you updated.

With the beginning of the Israeli ground attack on Gaza, might they well claim the plane was:

1:  An “Egyptian horse barge,” shot down by mistake

2: Spying on Israeli troop movements

(ref:  USS Liberty Israeli cover stories)

From Mike Harris:

Malaysia hosted the war crimes tribunals which found George W Bush and company guilty as well as Israel guilty of war crimes, perhaps this is why they were targeted.
Update:  If, as claimed a BUK missile was fired at Putin’s plane.  President Putin’s version of Air Force One has extensive ECM modules capable of jamming incoming missiles.  Were a missile fired at them and it locked on, ECM, as with America’s “Air Force One,” would jam the missile systems.  It is also likely that Russia has a “back door” into all systems they build, such as the one the “Ukies” had deployed outside Donetsk..
We have no confirmation that Putin’s plane had a fighter escort but are assuming it did not.  Were a missile to have hit the Malaysian plane, evidence will be easily discernible and missile wreckage should already have been found.
As to whether an air-to-air or ground-to-air missile is found to be the culprit, we should know in hours unless that is suppressed.  Either way, John McCain’s childish threats, to only go after those responsible if they happen to be enemies of his “handlers,” was an unwise statement.

_____________________________

Initial stories, traced back to Israeli intelligence, that a Russian jet is responsible for downing the Malaysian Airlines 777 with all aboard, are being disseminated to anyone stupid enough to listen.  Showing their hand this early is a monumental blunder.

Real "non 9/11" plane wreckage

Real “non 9/11” plane wreckage

Here is what we have so far, unconfirmed.  An American built F 15 fighter took off from an airfield in Azerbaijan.  Back in 2010, Azerbaijan claimed that this and one other airfield was taken over by Armenian militants.

However, these two facilities were home to Israeli aircraft that relocated there as while participating in training exercises with the Turkish Air Force.  Turkey allowed Israel to train pilots in strategic bombing in areas selected because they closely resembled potential Israeli targets in Iran.

Real "non 9/11" air crash evidence

Real “non 9/11” air crash evidence

Israel would send 8 aircraft in for training with the Turks, 6 would return to Israel, two went on to Azerbaijan in preparation for a planned air assault on Iran.  To aid this effort, Saudi Arabia put out cover stories stating that it had denied Israeli requests to cross their territory to attack Iran.

These bases are supplied through the Georgian seaport of Poti.  Armaments for the “attack that never happened” were offloaded in Poti by the USS Grapple in 2010 and shipped with help of Chechen extremists working with the Jamestown Foundation and Rand Corporation.

What wasn't on the Pentagon lawn...

What wasn’t on the Pentagon lawn…

Those two organizations were recently found to be working with groups in Turkey in support of ISIS operations in Iraq as reported by Jeffrey Silverman, Veterans Today Bureau Chief working out of Tbilisi.

The reason for the attack on the airliner is not clear and can only be speculated on.  This is an extremely serious incident.  Pro-Russian separatists in the Ukraine have no air defense systems capable of operating that high, or a need for them with air ground attack being their main concern.

US surveillance which includes AWAC, drones and satellites is capable of detecting the launch of any air defense missile, ground based, capable of reaching the necessary 32,000 foot altitude.

real evidence doesn't "disappear"

real evidence doesn’t “disappear”

Such a weapon would have been spotted in seconds and, as all such systems in the region are under continual surveillance due to the sensitive nature of the conflict and the history of allegations made, making claims we expect to be made outlandish.

There are questions.  Why two Malaysian Airlines planes?  If someone or something so threatening that this act was seen as “reasonable and justified,” even by the Israelis, was undertaken, we will never hear the truth.  Minimally, biological or chemical agents capable of global holocaust would have to have been onboard.

After the disappearance of Flight 370, author Chris Bollyn published photographs of a plane that looked identical to flight 370 stating that plane was in Israel and was likely to be used by that nation in a terror attack.  The story, both fascinating and yet reeking of wild conspiracy theory, dominated alternative media for some time.  There is now serious reason to reassess the story, why was it written, what were the sources and was it simply a hoax or tied to something far more serious.

The only other possibility is destabilization of the region and to push for a world war.  It is reasonable to suggest that an Israeli plane was involved because we know they have the only clandestine capability within the region.

As to the plot or reason, simply blaming Israel is not supportable, no more than blaming Hamas for murdering the 3 children a few short weeks ago.

Thus, we assume these as high probability:

  • An aircraft was used, most likely an American built F15 because of range and capability.
  • Azerbaijan was used because we know of clandestine bases there, which were confirmed by military officers who defected to Iran in 2013.
  • We know Israel has some role, yet undefined, because they are spreading stories blaming Russia.
  • As this is a second Malaysian Airlines plane to go down, we look for false stories regarding Israel and Malaysian planes and reassess their meaning.
  • As is always the case, que bono, who benefits?

We ask readers to watch the world news and those in the region, report directly to our bureau there.

___________________________

 

Who shot down the Malaysian jet over Ukraine?

Fri, Jul 18, 2014

Phenomenon of Terrorism, Ukraine

By ORIENTAL REVIEW

                                                                                      

On July 17, 2014 the madness of three-month-long Ukrainian military conflict in the East has brought the first shocking international consequence.  At 3.20PM GMT the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-200 jet flight #MH-17 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala-Lumpur disappeared inside the Ukrainian airspace right above the area of intense military combat in Donetsk region and crushed near Grabovo village, around 60 km to the east from Donetsk. All 285 passengers and 15 crew members have reportedly died.

According to data available the airliner “was moving at the altitude of 10,600 meters on the 350th flight level”. This flight level was opened for international transit flights, despite since July 8, 2014 the Ukrainian aviation authorities “did not recommend” international transit flights in the area below 302th level i.e. 9600 meters due to the “anti-terrorist operation” unleashed in the area involving Ukrainian pursuit aviation and air-defense capabilities in action. So formally the Malaysian company complied with the ruling of Ukrainian civil aviation authority although the security risk for the flight was evident.

The area of the catastrophe is indeed the epicentre of the ongoing fierce fighting between regular Ukrainian army units and rebellious armed militias of Novorossia opposing anti-constitutional February coup d’etat in Kiev. An informed source monitoring operational situation in the area has revealed earlier on Wednesday that a battery of Buk antiaircraft missile systems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was deployed near Donetsk.

At present, another battery of the same missile systems is being loaded in Kharkiv. The aircraft flying at the altitude of more than 10,000 meters might be hit only with weapons like S-300 or Buk. The militias don’t have such weapons, and cannot afford them as it was acknowledged even by the Ukrainian Defense minister Valery Galetey in a statement on another issue two days before the Flight MH-17 tragedy:

“…a “powerful weapon” must have been used to down the plane flying at 6,500 meters, an altitude the shoulder-fired missiles used by the separatists can’t reach.”

The Russian military expert Igor Korotchenko argues that the catastrophe in Donetsk was most likely caused by the incompetence and non-professionalism of the Ukrainian operators of the Buk systems during its testing after the battery was deployed in the new location. He said that the Ukrainian antiaircraft unit did not have any kind of proper training for the last 23 years since the collapse of Soviet Union.

What happened today is hardly the first case of “errant shooting” of the Ukrainian military on civilian air targets. On October 4, 2001 the Russian Siberia Airline flight #1812 Tel-Aviv-Novosibirsk carrying 66 passengers and 12 crew members was erroneously hit by a Ukrainian missile over the Black Sea during military exercises, which was eventually admitted by the Ukrainian side. No one on board survived.

So regardless the MH-17 incident was caused by the criminal negligence and incompetence of the Ukrainian military or deliberate (and reckless) Kiev’s provocation to put blame on Russia, the strong international committment to make Kiev immediately halt its punitive actions in Novorossia until all the circumstances of the tragedy are thoroughly investigated is urgently needed.

Location map of the point (marked in red) of the air strike against Flight MH-17 according to the flight tracking data.

Location map of the point (marked in red) of the air strike against Flight MH-17 according to the flight tracking data.

_________________________________

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210 Responses to "Malaysian 777 Shot Down Over Ukraine Updated"

  1. stephanaugust  July 25, 2014 at 7:33 pm

    What does the guy hope to find when he opens the door? Holocaust survivors?

  2. ptwang  July 20, 2014 at 7:16 am

    Another thing, how was the Ukraine government releasing photos of crash site victims if it’s supposed to be under separatist control? Would separatists allow Ukraine media? Surely any other media would send photos to home base, not to the government.

    Kind of suspicious of who has been there on scene, if it was a false flag, they’d probably want control of the site.

  3. ptwang  July 20, 2014 at 6:32 am

    I recall watching an interview at the crash scene fairly early on where the guy said he had collected about 30 passports – I’m pretty sure he was a westerner, just got a feeling it may be relevant but haven’t been able to find it again.

    • ani  July 20, 2014 at 6:42 am

      yeah we were shown pictures of a tidy pile of fresh-looking Eu passports.
      Who would have such a neat collection of same, following scorched catastrophe?

    • joe chuy-medina  July 20, 2014 at 8:56 am

      ptwang, it’s at truthstreammedia.com, Melissa Melton. many of the pics, even on VT, appear faked, or out of context, like the shiny waxed parts of the fuselage, garments, new, never used, etc., same time there are acres of charred wreckage.

      joe

      there is a new post at VT, as you may know.

    • Jim W. Dean  July 21, 2014 at 4:17 am

      This is simply explained by the wreckage having been spread out. The fire was where the section with the fuel tank landed was.

    • ptwang  July 21, 2014 at 8:33 pm

      No, finding a portion in good / unburnt condition like this is quite likely but these are brand new despite the old issue date, one of them was cancelled (triangle cut out) and another had a computer generated picture for some reason.

  4. Lonegunmen  July 20, 2014 at 4:29 am

    If the report about a warning message appeared on a Russian blog a month ago, then all Gordon’s report or analysis would appear to be ???? http //www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-mh17-plane-crash-3883544

  5. jmreeves  July 19, 2014 at 9:39 pm

    I have no idea what just published or not.
    Our computer got very busy, I had to force it down, we almost never do that.
    If it is the VT guys, you have but to ask, I am Gentleman.
    I don’t think you would be that cute.
    We just got bad attention, I guess I am doing something right.
    I will fix the computers as need be.

    John

  6. jmreeves  July 19, 2014 at 8:05 pm

    Mr Putin,
    I think you or one of your staff probably reads this,
    Speaking only for me (and we could argue over coffee maybe.
    We came out of very different backgrounds,
    and have different duties.
    You behave and we have your back.

    John

  7. jmreeves  July 19, 2014 at 5:17 pm

    Went back on survey, just like we thought,
    a litany of sorrow and sadness.
    No wonder I take a break once in a while.
    Well I’m Baaaack
    And not a happy camper.
    You guys are one of the bright spots in my day (yell at me if I get stupid, promise?
    There were two b baker billion walking on two ’bout when I hatched.
    Now (and I would not believe them if they say the sun is shining.
    But anyway they say there are seven now, I figure about 4.5 will remain (I mentioned)
    And as we speak bamalama is on my TV trying to ‘explain’
    That little piece of shit will burn in hell in due course
    (with my recommendation, and I carry some weight in that sector.
    They are after Putin again, let me guess.
    This is so damn obvious but you had to have been paying attention
    (to something other than the latest ball game dammit!)

    John

    John

    • jmreeves  July 19, 2014 at 6:24 pm

      Have you noticed, everyone has ‘terrorists’
      How very convenient, call them bad names you can dispatch them and no one takes it amiss,
      Look.
      Terrorism’ is a Tactic (you following me yet, pay attention
      Terrorism is a Tactic.
      It is not a new concept,
      you will find it mentioned in movies as old as we are (and that is too damn old!
      But if it is all the same I plan on getting a lot older.
      I am inspired by my ‘old friend’ and scared by the ones it didn’t go good.
      Here we are, and I am still functioning,
      and caring less by the day what the ‘bad guys’ think,
      and more concerned if you find fault.
      I have the latitude to ponder, Thanks.
      These assholes declared war on a tactic.
      And the nice Peorians think they are safe.

      John

    • jmreeves  July 19, 2014 at 9:20 pm

      The nice folks are out there living trivial lives.
      They (most) do not know.
      The only people I know who are mean to me visit here.
      And those are few, most of you seem to be having the same bad dream I am (give or take)
      In that I find some comfort,

      John

      Out on teh street I do juast fine,
      They have no idea what I am, up to.
      Thing locally, act globally?
      Look, my Nice Neighbors did not sign on for this.
      I did.

      Jjohn

  8. JGarth  July 19, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    Means Full Spectrum Dominance (FSD) weapon capabilities not available to ‘Freedom Fighters’ sic separatist groups or factions and cut-outs due to high costs without support from most involved players; Mossad or CIA Mode M.O. ‘dirtying up’ Putin & distract from Israel’s recent attack in Gaza
    Opportunity Using NATO maneuvers as cover UKRAINIAN fighters reported to be, not confirmed, flying aside MAL It is illogical to blame Russia since Putin has nothing to gain perpetrating such blatant act of terror. He is already being painted as enemy by US bean counters and political hawks, those confirmed traitors and liars the likes of Sen.McCain,Trotsky-ites and others; Who jump into media frenzy as usual without ever providing any solid evidence, who continuously disseminate dis-info intent on stirring up hostilities in the ME/CAR regions now grand-standing this event to accuse and hopefully provoke Russia to war. VT readers familiar w/way FOX etc predictably, ALWAYS first to point blame and start spin on stories (Cui bono) directed at Wall Street’s enemies, just another reason I believe this is a black op. Perpetrators are sending cryptic message to Putin & entourage ‘we could have just as easily taken out your jet’. Final analysis contingent 1) upon recovering absconded Ukrainian radar records, which is not likely before they are doctored 2) Discovery of ‘rods’ associated with BUK delivery system components. E.I. reports Agency involved planted the expl device on board.

  9. jmreeves  July 19, 2014 at 7:35 am

    We are all getting old.
    If we do not fix this the kids are screwed.
    We will be off to the great beyond in any case.
    The kids (bless them) do not know the stuff it takes under these conditions.
    They have yet to put their first fire out
    We have the experience, and we damn well better get this done.

    John

  10. Ann  July 19, 2014 at 7:05 am

    All accidents yield questions that must be answered but they usually have some kind of starting point, a baseline that is recognizable and agreed upon by investigators. This tragedy keeps changing exponentially and every answer creates more questions. The following article asks why the plane was off its usual route, similar to the KAL plane shot down over the USSR years ago.

    http //www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/was-malaysian-airlines-mh-17-accidentally-shot-down-over-ukraine

  11. rolan  July 19, 2014 at 5:33 am

    Dear Gordon, this is one of your VERY GOOD articles again (I may
    disagree *locally*, on technicalities so to speak, with you on
    other issues).

    I invite you to read (if not already)

    http //politikus.ru/events/24720-strasti-po-boingu-pervye-priznaki-rakety-vozduh-vozduh-sbival-ne-buk-m1.html

    In the (rather technical) article they say that MH17 has been
    knocked down by AAMs (R-27 or R-73) **NOT** by SAMs.

    • rolan  July 19, 2014 at 5:47 am

      Also on

      http //militariorg.ucoz.ru/publ/publ_1/strasti_po_boingu_pervye_priznaki_rakety_vozdukh_vozdukh_sbival_ne_buk_m1/15-1-0-35571

  12. rolan  July 19, 2014 at 5:13 am

    Nationalities passengers, 192 NL, 44 MY, 27 AU, 12 ID. MH17 has
    been shot down less than two weeks before Idul Fitri, or
    *Lebaran*, i.e., the Christmas feast of the Muslims so to speak
    (when everyone comes home).

    Indonesia and Malaysia do not allow dual nationalities (and
    rightly so). I wonder how many of those passengers with Dutch
    passport where naturalized Indonesians and Malaysians joining
    *home* for Lebaran.

    Flights from KUL, Kuala Lumpur, to most Indonesian destinations
    are a snap and there are many of them on daily base. Comparable
    nonstop flights–Singapore Airlines, Garuda–are generally more
    expensive; booking for flights during pre-Lebaran has to be made
    MONTHS in advance BTW; Emirates, Qatar, and similar flights last
    typically much longer (with transit phases lasting hours); etc.

    And now to the point do you see a similarity with 9/11, with the
    *terrorists* kindly taking down the towers at the most
    *favorable* time (a minimum of *non spendable*
    causalities/collateral damage limiting)?

    192 NL + 44 MY + 12 ID, likely many of them ethnic Malaysians/
    Indonesians… Making the most % of the victims…

    • rolan  July 19, 2014 at 6:11 am

      Malaysian Airlines MH17 Passenger List Names Of 15 Crew Members Released By
      Malaysia Media

      http //www.ibtimes.com/malaysian-airlines-mh17-passenger-list-names-15-crew-members-released-malaysia-media-1631888

      Captain Wan Amran Bin Wan Hussin (male, 50 years old)
      Captain Eugene Choo Jin Leong (male, 45 years old)
      Vice- captain Ahmad Hakimi Bin Hanapi (male, 29 years old)
      Vice- captain Muhamad Firdaus Bin Abdul Rahim (male, 27 years old)
      Mohd Ghafar Bin Abu Bakar (male, 54 years old)
      Dora Shamila Binti Kassim (female, 47 years old)
      Azrina Binti Yakob (female, 41 years old)
      Lee Hui Pin (female, 42 years old)
      Mastura Binti Mustafa (female, 40 years old)
      Chong Yee Pheng (female, 40 years old)
      Shaikh Mohd Noor Bin Mahmood (male, 44 years old)
      Sanjid Singh Sandhu (male, 41 years old)
      Hamfazlin Sham Binti Mohamed Arifin (female, 42 years old)
      Nur Shazana Binti Mohamed Salleh (female, 31 years old)
      Angeline Premila Rajandaran (female, 30 years old)

      ***

      10/15 crew MH17 were Muslims. Bin = son of…, binti = daughter of… x Muslims
      exclusively. Ex., A bin B means A son of B (where B is always the name of the
      father), C binti D means C daughter of D (D = father).
      3/15 were ethnic Chinese (likely).
      2/15 Indian or Iranian (Angeline is first name for a Christian)

    • rolan  July 19, 2014 at 6:19 am

      (Actually there were 2x crews on board -> nonstop flight.)

    • jmreeves  July 19, 2014 at 6:44 am

      Thanks.
      Who cares what we do not agree about.
      This is business (they are trying to give us the Business,
      I think we should take it and dispatch them.

      John

  13. Paul James  July 19, 2014 at 3:07 am

    A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

    The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that “a significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh,” adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

    The Malaysia Airlines Boeing-777 was shot down Thursday, killing all 298 people aboard. The plane was flying 10,000 meters above an area where Ukrainian forces have been fighting separatist rebels. Each side accuses the other of downing the plane.

    U.S. intelligence authorities said a surface-to-air missile brought down the plane, and U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power told the U.N. Security Council in New York on Friday that the missile was likely fired from a rebel-held area near the Russian border.

    Girkin said “Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness.”

    He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.

    http //news.yahoo.com/rebel-leader-gives-bizarre-account-plane-crash-182256709.html

    Another Zionist false flag.

  14. Cold Wind  July 18, 2014 at 7:33 pm

    It is stupid to think Putin ordered the shoot down. Only a neo-con could come up with an idea like that. Yeah, I’m thinking of the former Ambassador John Bolton. But there’s always McCain. Boy can he come up with stupid. I’m still betting on Israel and their miserable little Sayanims in the Ukraine somehow being involved. I am assuming,, of course, and this could be a mistake, that the general outline of the story is true–a plane was shot down, killing 295 people. You never know now a days, do you? People lie big time, like in Sandy Hook or the Boston Bombing. Sometimes we are all fooled…for a while at least and the “evidence” is still coming in. You can bet a lot of it is fake.

    • jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 7:40 pm

      I agree, Putin has other amusements,
      and is a educated guy.
      I actually like him a lot.
      This is the part where we all sort ourselves.
      You too can be special, we are always looking for talent.
      And in our spare time we keep an eye on the store.
      I did not say nor imply we are able to jump tall whatevers,
      We will help if we can, you need to decide where you think the train should go.
      I am from Administrative Services (and you get to pick the train and the destination.
      Our charge is to make sure you get there in one piece.

      John

    • jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 8:54 pm

      Some people try to take us off task,
      By distracting.
      I might seem like that at times but I know better.
      I always have a method to my madness.
      You guys deserve a lot better (and I will give it a try)
      It is a fine line between background and trolling.
      I am aware of that.
      I have more spare time activities.. oh never mind.
      Just know I play keyboards and sing and design widgets.
      That was 20 years ago.
      You must be pretty important to me or I would be fishing.
      You (and I do not know you from Adam (as should be
      You are generically important to me.
      I hope that helps.
      The task as I see it is to make life fun and worthwhile,
      something you could teach your children.
      As you know we have a way to go.
      Thank You for tolerating my presentation.
      I did not get paid a cent (and I do not need it.
      Dirty little secret, I have what I need, My Cup Runneth
      You guys are some of the most precious, now don’t let that get around.

      John

    • jmreeves  July 19, 2014 at 9:53 am

      Actually if you are into inverts and official denials,
      This would be rich.
      I think they were aiming at Putin, Now to say he did it is just too damn cute.

      John

    • jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 8:15 pm

      Concentrates the mind.
      I could never imagine addressing you kind folks as I do.
      It just happened, one thing follows another,
      I am a Systems Analyst (big words, I’ll bet you are impressed!
      Actually few of you even know what a Systems Analyst is, let alone how they happen
      That is not important now, this one (me)
      is friendly, and I want your kids to understand.
      You can too, not my point.
      This is the Big One ‘lizabeth.
      I know that’s what they all say,
      But thy are not you or me.
      I think the bad guys are in bad trouble, and this is part of why that is.
      My Best to You.
      If i seem a snooty asshole you do not know me very well.

      John

  15. jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 6:57 pm

    Something I should mention,
    You are having fun playing with the fire
    I am here to put the fire out, and we have a lot of stuff we could do for amusement.
    This is not an amusement, Duty Calls.We are a lot like you, but not entirely.
    You are waiting for us to do your homework.
    We will in fact perform, but not for your pleasure.

    John

    John

    • jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 7:24 pm

      and you will go down in history
      as the ones who did not ‘do it’
      This is not my railroad, but if the trains stay on the tracks
      It will be no thanks to you.
      You could maybe have done this, but I guess you were busy.
      I am here to preserve the system at large,
      if you find me inconvenient you can join the line,.

      John

  16. LightSaber  July 18, 2014 at 4:23 pm

    I also thought about NATO drills. SF “Putin Warns Obama Of “Catastrophic War Game” Minutes Before Malaysian Jet Destroyed”. “…within 5-minutes of President Putin warning his US counterpart, President Obama, that “war games” being carried out by NATO member Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) forces over Romania could lead to a “potential catastrophe”, Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was destroyed over the eastern conflict region of Ukraine.

    According to this report, Putin was in flight during his call to Obama returning to Moscow aboard his presidential aircraft from Brazil when he was notified that there were a number of “critical radar anomalies” occurring over EUROCONTROL zones in Central Europe…”

    • JS  July 18, 2014 at 8:24 pm

      LightSaber, doesn’t it bother you just a bit that the report comes from Sorcha Faal, the disinfo artist from Virginia? Beware Sorcha Faal; he is NOT for the truth. Christopher Story outed him long ago, his name, location, and all. Here’s the Sorcha report; discernment advised.
      http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1784.htm

    • LightSaber  July 19, 2014 at 6:04 am

      I know. But he’s the only one to point out possible interference of NATO drills, something I thought of immediately when heard the news about the plane. You know, those drills are there for a reason. And t(he)y always provide some interesting angle with some seeds of truth.in it, although twisted in the end. What would be the harm, anyway, if the report about those drills involvement were true? What is the damage actually done by SF?
      And the EUROCONTROL anomalies few weeks ago are not coincidence, I am sure. Remember that drills quite often go “hot” with detrimental effects, people should be always alarmed by them and monitor closely.

  17. LightSaber  July 18, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    How about breaking news soon reporting unexpected, violent torrential storm forming abruptly in contrary to all known models over the area of the crash and destroying a lot of evidence there?

  18. CoJonesGrandes  July 18, 2014 at 3:29 pm

    Yeah, it’s very dangrous to whistleblow to George Noory. I took up a subscription to C2C back in 2010 so that I could send a private message to that guy, to tell him to watch Khalezov’s 9/11 video. That night, my computer (which was left on stand-by) was hacked and a scary message was put in there to put the frighteners on me. It’s all rather amusing now but back then, I was shitting bricks (which was what they had intended). Actually they wanted much more than to merely scare me but that was all they succeeded in doing. LOL!

    • jmreeves  July 19, 2014 at 6:50 am

      So you were there too.
      Art Bell is an interesting fellow.
      Just like always, if something good pops up ‘they’;’ try to hijack it.
      Meanwhile,
      Art Bell is like the Saturday Tonight gang (the original, and they never got it back up did they?
      But the kids went on to make really good movies.
      Noory is a schill and I take him a creep.

      John

  19. CoJonesGrandes  July 18, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    Frankly Speaking
    Damn! The info must have been really good because all those pages are no longer available. At least, they are not available to me but the NSA/DHS/CIA have me on their naughty list so I tend to be denied webpages which others can see. Have you retained copies? If so, can you upload them to a few sites and give us the links so we can see them too, please?

    • jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 3:34 pm

      I am sure you are right, I will look,
      What interesting times
      I always wanted to do something useful. we’ll see.
      When I am awake I don’t know if I am dreaming,
      And when I am dreaming I don’t know if I am awake.

      John

  20. Bartered  July 18, 2014 at 2:09 pm

    290 people lost their lives yesterday. I blame the guy who launched the missile. Even the US is in agreement that it was a Ukrainian plane that caused the incident. Of course their still blaming President Putin because he as yet to control the violence started by neo-facist thugs which caused the pilot to attack a passenger airliner.

    *****http //www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/18/371850/obama-blames-russia-for-mh17-plane-crash/*****

  21. joe chuy-medina  July 18, 2014 at 1:43 pm

    yep; the video and many of the bright-colored pics are faked, for the reasons you mention. pieces of clean fuselage, in nice grass, men standing on them -apparent fakes. while acres of charred wreckage, still smoking.

    not sure what to conclude, beyond that. not likely that plane parts and bodies are planted, given where it is located.

    joe

    • jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 1:58 pm

      Whadaya wannabet somebodies kids are dead.
      You all need to understand, my apparent cynicism is at once a defense mechanism
      (but I need much more powerful stuff)
      This is how I stay more or less functioning.
      And I cry, and that helps (big boys do cry)
      I mostly am just Resolute, I have been at this too long,
      And I am not fooling around.
      Like I said before this is for the Prize.
      From what I have gathered (yes we have a crew) we are from the home office.
      Somebody Up There must like us very much (I will settle if you will kindly trust us)
      I know it sounds nuts, but look around there is a lot of ‘nutz’ going around.
      I ended up the PR for an outfit that has no PR.
      I am here to afford comfort and a warning,
      We Cannot Fix This (for that we require your kind assistance
      Keep watching, do useful things,
      do not join the fools on the street they only make noise.
      My Best to You.

      John’

  22. jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 1:27 pm

    I have been mercifully off in the ozone (or as close as we could find)
    Meanwhile it looks like they blew up a perfectly good airliner.
    Maybe I chose the wrong week to quit sniffing gas (do not do that by the way)
    Some Fun You Bet.
    We (in my opinion) need to be less reactionary the more the bad guys throw.
    They will all think we are stupid and are not doing anything
    this can’t be helped and only a fool would endeavor to ‘fix’ that.
    We are ‘doing stuff’ (but I do not want to talk about it just now, OK?
    You feel comfy with that? (I hope so, this is the part where telling you the truth is supposed to pay off.

    John

  23. jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 12:52 pm

    We inhabit a world of taters and onions (fix some steak we could eat good.
    But Seriously
    Taters are homogenous, one slice is a lot like the next
    Onions have layers, and you peel that, and there is another layer.
    You are surrounded by Onions here.

    John

  24. jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    Look, I am not even the self appointed hall monitor.
    Clog the place with trivialities and they will all leave.
    They can go anywhere for that, which is why I present a moving target.
    I commend the guys that hatched this forum thanks for having me around
    it is more important than I thought.
    If you ever wanted a place where you can talk to interesting people,
    some of whom can ‘make stuff happen’
    Use This and Have Great Respect for what these guys gave us.
    It Is as close to what we need as can be had.
    What we need is for the Bad Man to stop.
    And so we compare notes and hope the ‘bad guy’ does itself an injury (speaking of course only for me.

    John

    But ewwe are smarter than that.

    John’

  25. doingood  July 18, 2014 at 10:42 am

    My primary concern at this point If the “perpetraitors” don’t succeed with the spin of this incident as provocation for WWIII they will bomb an American city. I believe they are trying to get the war underway before the end of next week one way or another to deflect from the BRICS alliance and falsely blame Russia. They may choose a navy town since I suspect the navy is not on board with this charade.

    • jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 11:54 am

      Yeah I noticed that too.
      This is Real Time folks.
      This is the part where it is supposed to work.
      If you have something in store toss it on the table.
      It does not need to be perfect (but you had better have something in mind.
      We never had what we have here, and I assure you (only a guess)
      but the bad guys did not pack enough shorts.
      Use This and kindly behave (and I will too)
      Or would you prefer stuff that blows up the neighbors children.
      We are all getting to know each other, and in the process getting to know the bad guys too.
      And they are getting to know us, (and should invest in underwear)
      I do not think there is a script. (my 2 cents)
      But this is definitely interesting times
      and some really big stuff is going to sort one way or another.
      Mankind (and that includes girls) are not fit to be slaves.
      Now we have Power Tools..
      This is for the ‘prize’ folks (and not just a sports spectacle
      Feel free to yell back, I do not bite unprovoked, did I use all the photons yet?
      All kidding aside, we never had anything like this (and the bad guys want it dead)
      It is interactive, and the people who do not post outnumber us.
      So be nice and tell them something they need to know,
      maybe they will visit again later (and we should have something for them)
      And to think I just used to vacuum computers (but they smiled when they saw me.

      John

  26. Paul Revere in WI  July 18, 2014 at 9:41 am

    Jim Morrison needs to get off his high horse and get a life.

  27. JS  July 18, 2014 at 9:28 am

    When so many people are murdered at one time, I look at anniversaries, just in case. Here are two.
    July 17, 1996 — TWA Flt. 800 shot down by a missile off Long Island, NYC. 230 dead. Investigation was a farce. July 17, 1968 — Baath revolution in Iraq. Btw, July 17 was the national holiday of Iraq up until Saddam was overthrown in 2003.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_17

    • JS  July 18, 2014 at 10:05 am

      Here’s an anniversary that I think is VERY relevant, in light of possible attempt on Putin’s life.
      July 17, 1918 — Tsar Nicholas II, his family, and retainers were murdered by Bolshevik Chekists in Yekaterinburg, Russia.

    • DaveE  July 18, 2014 at 10:22 am

      That DOES smell a little funky! Well done.

    • CoJonesGrandes  July 18, 2014 at 3:33 pm

      Clif High has an update on his website. That 20th July incident he was expecting was this one. He has not revealed what he was expecting until now. And what he was expecting is a failed assassination attempt.

    • CoJonesGrandes  July 18, 2014 at 4:06 pm

      JS, well spotted.
      So, Lagarde’s occult speech was about casting a black magic spell to kill Putin.
      If you read Max Freedom Long’s book “Secret Science Behind Miracles”, it is very dangerous to use ‘death prayers’ to kill another person for if the demon fails to accomplish its task, it may well kill the summoner instead.
      Well, let’s hope all those practitioners of black magic who were trying to kill Putin will get what they richly deserve.

    • JS  July 18, 2014 at 8:41 pm

      Actually, I listened to quite a bit of CL’s January speech about the magic number 7. I think she was talking in code alright, but she was talking about another event in July, supposed to be a good one, not a death. We should know soon, as July is almost gone.

    • JS  July 18, 2014 at 10:29 am

      Yikes! Another July 17 murder of a Russian Tsar, to make way for Catherine the Great.
      July 17, 1762, Peter III of Russia was murdered, a little over a week after he was deposed by his wife Catherine II on July 9 (Catherine the Great).
      http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_17

    • jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 5:57 pm

      As usual now I have to go and see what you are on about.
      Thanks,
      We have to approach this thing from the aspect
      that none of us have enough hours in the day,
      It Takes a Village
      (you can shoot me now or wait ’till you get home (Pronoun Trouble.
      I take comfort in that others have noticed too.
      Cold Comfort.

      John

  28. JS  July 18, 2014 at 8:57 am

    Pres. Obama speaking right now from the White House about this. At least, he’s not smiling like Bill Clinton did on CNN this morning.
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/president-obama-delivers-statement-situation-ukraine

  29. jmreeves  July 18, 2014 at 7:28 am

    Do I need more coffee or was this aimed at Putin?

    John

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