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Bundymania: Just the facts, ma’am

lido_719

…by Gordon Duff, VT Senior Editor

We feel sorry for the family, for this wasted life which did not have to happen

We feel sorry for the family, for this wasted life which did not have to happen

The Oregon “whatever” story has died, moved on, no longer the newsworthy circus it never was. We will put it to bed with facts, not conjecture, not spam or pandering.  Let’s remember that in a time when there should be so much more protest, even the misguided, and I feel this group qualifies as “misguided” as few ever have, deserve a voice.

If only people were in the streets opposing the wars and Washington corruption or veterans out there, in the streets instead of the few, Rosebrock, our legal teams and a few key organizations, fighting the mainstream veterans groups and the fraudsters.

A key issue here is using truth instead of jumping to convenient lies as is too often the case, cheap rabble-rousing which degrades those who really are murdered by police every day and throws them into the lot with others who are less the victim, sometimes much less.  Whatever my opinion, and everyone has one, we can get the truth out there, some quality analysis and move on.

There is no controversy anymore, the Federal government has shut it down quite well, we are saying “silenced,” and we are not backing the Federal position whatsoever.  I will take a shot at some real journalism here, g-d help us all. (“-” included to avoid offending our Israeli readers)

This is the best information we can get.  If you have better, include it in comments.

____________

Fact: The group that headed out of the compound were informed that five federal warrants had been issued and that, once they had left, they were not going to be able to return.  They knew that not only it was likely they would be stopped by a felony roadblock but that the compound was going to be sealed off.

The FBI informed them that unless the occupation ended, the warrants would be enforced.  A timeline was given, probably 24 hours.

Hypothesis:  Those who left the compound were not planning to visit an “old folks home” or anything of the kind.  They were leaving to avoid arrest.  Mind you, there is nothing wrong in this, other than interstate flight to avoid prosecution is in itself another felony.  What they did, from a practical standpoint was a rational decision.

Hypothesis:  The 18 year old young lady who was strategically placed in the front seat next to the most likely arrest target was there under one of two circumstances: A. A voluntary human shield B. Suckered into helping our “friends” run roadblocks by making it impossible for police to fire on vehicles, which they are so often inclined to do when African Americans are driving anyway.

From a “moral standpoint,” if she volunteered, she deserves praise whatever the reason.  If they suckered her into it, based on whatever their situation was, and I can’t judge because I wasn’t there, they were doing what had to be done.  If Finicum had gotten around the roadblock, he might well be sitting behind the Canadian border now talking to the press.

Fact:  Had they reached Canada, if that were where they were going, and it well should have been, the Canadian government would have likely resisted extradition based on the idiocy of the charges against them.

From a “moral standpoint,” going to Canada would have allowed them to gain international stature.

Fact:  The FBI released the aircraft video because it supported their claim.

Fact:  The accusations relied on by some activists taken from the YouTube video statement by the 18 year old were outlandishly inaccurate and totally debunked by the video.  No “on the knees with hands up execution” in front of the cameras, no lethal rounds gunfire into the truck and so much more.

Fact:  Bundy had at least one police informant within his group who was arrested to provide “cover.”

Fact: Finicum tried to escape in every way and had a young girl in the front seat which prevented police from opening fire on the vehicle were they inclined to do that.

Hypothesis:  Police would never have opened fire on the vehicle, a purely public relations decision.

Fact: Finicum’s behavior when he exited the truck clearly demonstrated some very mixed feelings on his part.  He brought a gun, he had his hands up, he either drew the gun or “something” and may well have put it back.  If he had, and all we have is the video which won’t get any clearer and testimony which none may believe as well, he looked like he was either pointing a gun or putting one away or drawing a gun, a gun he actually had. He certainly paid no attention to keeping his hands up and not moving.

Fact:  Police had the training and equipment to take down Finicum, even if armed, without killing him.  Any idiot with a rifle could have hit him with a non-lethal shot to the calf at that range and in those conditions, something I can speak of as a trained sniper and expert at police procedures.

Fact:  Any that rely on either overly subjective analysis of the supplied video, which by any standard legally justifies deadly force, to support “murder” or “execution” is someone with an agenda and a bit too much moral flexibility.

Fact:  No statement from the 18 year old “witness” could be relied on after release of the video.

Where this leaves us is fairly simple.  You either agree with the reason for the protest or not.  How things were done by Bundy and those with him were their decisions based on what they believe.  You have to respect that.

The charges by the Federal government are totally bogus.  People all day long, bloggers and podcasters, nutty preachers and even Fox News types say and do worse things than the Bundy gang every day.

Bundy has to, providing he gets out of this, be more careful who he trusts.  Finicum, Bundy and gang would have gotten away were it not for being snitched out.  Militia’s are loaded with FBI informants.

The “podcast blogsphere” is even worse.

The level of discourse that has permeated the online community makes Bundy mainstream and the reaction to his “threats” while ignoring others something dishonest. I could even help the defense compile a long list of worse things said on the air. What we can’t know at this point is what they might have said on monitored cell phone calls, but they were not charge with conspiracy to commit a felony, something that gives defense attorneys a sigh of relief.

If “law enforcement” was “interfered with,” they could well have moved in and pressed the issue rather than fabricate trumped up charges and using “procedure” to crush dissent. Either way no brave person that I know would have risked death in any way for these charges, but we don’t know if they knew of the specific charges.

____________

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Posted by on January 31, 2016, With 3526 Reads Filed under Investigations. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

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16 Responses to "Bundymania: Just the facts, ma’am"

  1. drbhelthi  January 31, 2016 at 11:56 pm

    From my viewpoint, the “key” to the situation is found in the statement, ” – the Canadian government would have likely resisted extradition based on the idiocy of the charges against them.”
    The article would have more veracity, were it been based on the “idiocy of the charges”.

    • Jim W. Dean, Managing Editor  February 1, 2016 at 10:05 am

      Doc, To please internet readers, particularly anonymous ones, we do not see it as our role to usurp the legal process, as both the government and the defense teams for these folks will be doing that. It also is not our goal to influence events or try to steer them as we are not silly youngsters. What would be the purpose of trying to steer internet readers one way or that other in this. We make no extra income from higher readership controversy as the content side of VT does not even had a checking accountant. And we are not planning a book on this where we want to stoke the fires to have a lot of pre-orders to bring in. But we do love exposing those who ARE attempting to do this for ideological or other motives as the internet is filled with these efforts, some professionally funded and others by bands of fools with a lot of freed time on their hands and no reputations of any consequence to lose…so it is all free entertainment for them. Gordon’s point is that Canada has been a long time “go to” place for people with warrants. Everything we are reporting now is still in the preliminary stage. We are not in a “who dun it” game show with a prize at the end. And frankly we will be moving back to other much more important stories that effect a lot more peoples lives. We advise all to let this case roll out more before debating it to death.

  2. jmf  January 31, 2016 at 9:46 pm

    If GMT, time would fit as reported, ~4:30 PST. Easy enough to rig and still too many anomalies.

  3. jmf  January 31, 2016 at 7:29 pm

    Why is the time-stamp on the video 27 Jan. instead of the 26th, when the event took place?
    Why was the truck just sitting in the middle of the road for 4 to 5 minutes without being secured, unapproached by the authorities parked behind it, before it took off toward the roadblock? Waiting for the stage to be set, talent wavers signed?
    Not to mention the overall dubious videography. Looked like a reenactment to me. A fraudulent video does not establish fact, but is reason to reject in total.
    Whether Bundy, Santilli, Mcconnell were in on it, a black flag operation to cause trouble and discord. Both sides sorely lacking in the oppression of the Hammonds by the BLM.

  4. Dan  January 31, 2016 at 3:57 pm

    Fact: Police had the training and equipment to take down Finicum, even if armed, without killing him.

    Easily, as well, making this murder in my book. What the hell is wrong with so many in LE and the FBI? Maybe watching the aging t&a soft porn and that collection of faggots on Fox News has turned them into the kind of coward an earlier generation cannot even imagine. “First responder,” “boots on the ground,” “in harm’s way,” “muh brothers, muh mission,” “war on terror”–you’ve got to be one brain-dead clown to buy into this crap, particularly since it comes from the real perps who should be rounded up and tried for treason and other capital crimes.

  5. winch  January 31, 2016 at 3:55 pm

    Further, after Lavoy is shot(allegedly)he falls downhill(he got that part right)and is laid out. In the next few frames, one arm is seen to extend out in front….perhaps to make a snow angel? Also, why no blood stained snow?(blood stains snow quickly, even from a minor scratch) A head shot would produce a lot of blood, especially with a body laying downhill, headfirst. In the long version of the video, Lavy lays there until they have extracted the rest of the Y’all CIAda from the vehicle. Long enough for Osama bin Lavy to bleed out. All I can say is the gripper forgot to pack the blood packs.

  6. Anthony Hall  January 31, 2016 at 3:17 pm

    Shawna Cox who lived through the assault on the white van has gone on record in a show called Periscope. SC makes it very clear Mark McConnell was a police plant largely responsible for setting it up. Shawna’s Cox’s testimony is consistent with Victoria Sharp’s. Both women were in LaVoy Finicum’s car. SC attributes it to the Lord that she lived through the police assault on the white vehicle which she says involved hundreds of shots. She says LaVoy was shot in the legs shortly after getting out of the car with his hands up. When he lowers his arms he is already shot. What makes you such an expert on Mormons Gordon? How do you know whether or not I’m a Mormon myselEver heard of Cardston just down the road from her?

    • winch  January 31, 2016 at 4:19 pm

      Uh, Tony, it was a pick’um up truck, not a van. No self respecting cowboy would drive a van, sheesh… Shawna has already been released? Do you know who her defense team is? Sure would like to get a hold of them since you never know when you might need one, par excellence for sure.

    • Worker Bee  January 31, 2016 at 5:28 pm

      Are we confused about the vehicle, or just language use? In much of the English speaking world, a vehicle with an engine out front, a cab in the middle for the driver and passengers, and an open tub out back for hauling stuff is called a “van” and not a “pick(em)up truck”.

  7. winch  January 31, 2016 at 3:04 pm

    And what’s with the suicide cop flying across the snow as Lavoy plows though the snowbank? Must of had on on some of those Nazi anti-gravity boots that are all the rage now. As you notice, every one else struggles in the two feet plus snow. Could it be that they had a path packed through the snow to the predetermined point of impact for our fearless Kamikaze Kopper?

  8. Gordon Duff, Senior Editor  January 31, 2016 at 2:28 pm

    Tony,

    Suggest you learn more about the mormon church. I am laughing my ass off about this one.

    Also, if you have sources instead of the sad sack Bundy clan of white trash, name them.

    • Worker Bee  January 31, 2016 at 5:24 pm

      “Suggest you learn more about the mormon church.” – GD

      Which Mormon church (presumably LDS and not one of the dozens of splinter groups), and LDS values for the “little people” of the congregation, the corporate structure values (contracting with CNA is similar to working for a state DOT, as they have about the same size and level of business sophistication), or the ruling power structure values (hello Mitt Romney)?

    • Emma Yacht  January 31, 2016 at 6:06 pm

      WorkerB, “Which Mormon church (presumably LDS and not one of the dozens of splinter groups)” Obviously, the main one.
      “LDS values for the ‘little people’ of the congregation” Yes,the mainstream LDS values for the people.

      “the corporate structure values (contracting w/ CNA is similar to working for a state DOT, as they have about the same size and level of business sophistication)”
      Just because the corporate structure is sophisticated doesn’t mean that there’s a disconnect between its values & those of the wards and stakes.This would have to be evaluated on a case by case basis to see if there’s any validity to your claim.

      “or the ruling powerstructure values (hello Mitt Romney)?”
      I’ve been waiting4 someone to bring up this guy,so thank you,WorkerB.Since anyone who’s allegedly fornicated outside of holy matrimony can be advised by their bishop to revisit the covenants they have made with the Lord,I would guess that might apply to such an individual who has been photographed & taped in sessions with his mistress & then the media aired the story.Breaking the chastity covenant is right up there with murder because of its affect on the family & is something for which no observant family man (or woman)should be proud.This doesn’t even address the bankster issue.But,any personal issues would be dealt with in house & are private spiritual matters between theMormon & his bishopric, who’d urge him/her to reconnect with more righteous actions & humbly meditate on these issues.

  9. Anthony Hall  January 31, 2016 at 1:01 pm

    The issue right now is whether or not the federal government led by Barack Obama pre-planned and executed an assassination of LaVoy Finicum, a man I see as the best imaginable embodiment of the merger of American Patriot and Mormon values.

    • Emma Yacht  January 31, 2016 at 4:03 pm

      Mr. Hall, if you are not a Mormon, who or what gives you the authority to evaluate “Mormon values”?

  10. winch  January 31, 2016 at 12:36 pm

    All this Bundy Mania amounts to
    is counter-intelligence. Less than 1% of the beef consumed in this country is grass fed, open range, been that way for decades. Got to admit though, the street acting is getting better.

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