by Gordon Duff with Jim W. Dean
From Jeffrey Silverman, VT Bureau Chief Tbilisi
We spoke to air catastrophe and air-defence specialists. Here are several points they drew our attention towards:
1) It is not a fact that it was a “Buk” air-defence system and in general nothing is fact for the air catastrophe experts before the investigation is carried out. According to the Chicago convention, Ukraine has to carry out the investigation (as the jet fell down on our territory), and anybody can be included in the committee. For an objective investigation, we have to capture the territory where the jet fell, and at least document the parts of the plane, bodies, traces of the attack part of the missiles’ damage on video (is it is a “Buk,” then metal rods, if it is a C-200 – ball-bearing parts etc.), find the black boxes etc.
2) The air traffic services should have closed this zone for flights right after the AN-26 was taken down yesterday from a height unaccessible for the man-portable air-defence system. Before it was closed up to 8 (we think) kilometres, it was enough for protection from the man-portable system (the missiles are small and have enough fuel for 4-5 kilometres only). From the perspective of civil aviation safety, the fall of the jet is our mistake and Ukraine should be the one to pay compensations. And this is a huge blow to Ukraine as an aviation transportation operator.
3) As to the “Buk”: in theory, for the system’s successful work, a minimum of 4 out of 5 vehicles within the complex is necessary: the commandment car, the target locator car, the targeting car and the firing point with the missiles. One can do without the charging car, which transports additional missiles, in case the missiles have been set up on the firing point in advance. 15-17 highly-qualified military specialists are needed to service these military specialists.
4) The principle of action of “Buk” air-defence system: – under close supervision of the commander, the locator determines the target and the coordinates; – the operator of the firing system launches the missile in the given direction; – the targeting car lights up the target with radio waves; – this reflected signal is captured by the self-targeting system of the missiles and its computer corrects the course; – the missile explodes several metres before reaching the plane, sending metal rods flying everywhere that damage the fuselage, the engines, the electric system etc.
5) “Buk’s” range is 40-50 kilometres horizontally and 20-25 vertically. It is a general military weapon (covers the soldiers from air attack directly on the battlefield), and not an air-defence forces weapon.
6) The air-defence system’s locators show three kinds of targets (as radio signals): – missile (one leading engine); – destroyer, storm jet or a similar small military jet (the turbine of the engine creates a recognisable radio signal); – strategic bombarder or transportation jet (a big plane with many engines). The latter category could include a passenger vessel, as the radio image is identical.
7) If it is a “Buk,” then: – it could have come from Russian territory. The caterpillar track can take the vehicles even through fields; – it could have been part of the captured Ukrainian Armed Forces division (if they indeed had all the parts of the complex). However military specialists for such accordant work were clearly imported, the reserve army is insufficient in this case; – it could have even worked from Russian territory, somewhere around Kuybyshevo. However, the Boeing was moving with its cruising speed (about 900 km/hr) and during the fall its parts continued falling to the east because of inertia.
8) This could have been not a “Buk,” but a different air-defence system.
9) Additional materials regarding “Buk” – http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/buk-2m/buk-2m.shtml
10) But this is all in theory, we need EVIDENCE – data from civil radars, military equipment, satellites, CONTROL OVER THE CRASH SITE, not to allow the locals to take the parts for scrap metal et
Update: With the “breaking” stories on the media about “purported/alleged” intercepted phone calls, I am making a call. Think of this as an election. Go to Huffington Post, the Daily Beast or Fox News. The Daily Beast actually accuses Putin himself of doing this. Of course, that publication is owned by Jane Harmon, accused Israeli master spy, caught by FBI trying to arrange for the very illegal release of Jonathan Pollard.
Israel did it. Why? No one else could, no one else gains anything, call it cover for Gaza, call us all anti-semites or self-hating Jews or whatever. This is part of a criminal rampage.
Breaking: From Global Travel Industry News:
ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.
The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.
Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.
Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.
Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.
According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.
Putin controversy continues:
Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 298, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.
“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft – 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.
“The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical”, the source added.
At the same time, there have been reports contradicting Intefax’s report that was the first and the only media source to publish the news, saying that Presidential plane was not flying over Ukraine at the same time.
As a source told Gazeta.ru online news portal, Putin’s plane does take off from Vnukovo-3 [the terminal that accepts business jets], but the president does not fly over the conflict-gripped neighboring country.
“Putin has only one jet – Board One, he does not fly other planes. This plane always takes off from Vnukovo-3, but the presidential plane have not been flying over Ukraine for a while,” the source at Vnukovo-3 terminal said.
President Putin was on his way from Brazil, where he attended the BRICS summit, to Moscow.
‘Tragedy would’t have taken place if there was peace in Ukraine’
Ukraine should bear responsibility for Malaysian airliner tragedy, said the head of the Russian state at a meeting on economic issues, which he proposed to start with a minute of silence in memory of the victims of the disaster.
Finger pointed at Israel: Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, former Jesuit and confirmed “nutter” let his Israeli handlers put his “nutters” in the ringer this time. “They” chose the weakest minded western leader possible to peddle an outlandish story, one that leads back to Tel Aviv, increasingly recognized as the puppet masters behind the Kiev junta.
Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said on Friday that “Russian-backed rebels” appeared to be behind the shooting down of a Malaysia Airlines passenger jetliner over eastern Ukraine
Unconfirmed: Malaysian plane mistaken for Putin’s private jet which had flown over the area only moments before, leaving Israel and the Kiev junta as prime suspects. This may well have been an assassination attempt on Putin.
We have people on the scene now (1:45PM EST) who have found a bag of passports and medical equipment. We will keep you updated.
With the beginning of the Israeli ground attack on Gaza, might they well claim the plane was:
- An “Egyptian horse barge,” shot down by mistake
- Spying on Israeli troop movements
(ref: USS Liberty Israeli cover stories)
From Mike Harris:
Malaysia hosted the war crimes tribunals which found George W Bush and company guilty as well as Israel guilty of war crimes, perhaps this is why they were targeted.
Update: If, as claimed a BUK missile was fired at Putin’s plane. President Putin’s version of Air Force One has extensive ECM modules capable of jamming incoming missiles. Were a missile fired at them and it locked on, ECM, as with America’s “Air Force One,” would jam the missile systems. It is also likely that Russia has a “back door” into all systems they build, such as the one the “Ukies” had deployed outside Donetsk..
We have no confirmation that Putin’s plane had a fighter escort but are assuming it did not. Were a missile to have hit the Malaysian plane, evidence will be easily discernible and missile wreckage should already have been found.
As to whether an air-to-air or ground-to-air missile is found to be the culprit, we should know in hours unless that is suppressed. Either way, John McCain’s childish threats, to only go after those responsible if they happen to be enemies of his “handlers,” was an unwise statement.
Initial stories, traced back to Israeli intelligence, that a Russian jet is responsible for downing the Malaysian Airlines 777 with all aboard, are being disseminated to anyone stupid enough to listen. Showing their hand this early is a monumental blunder.
Here is what we have so far, unconfirmed. An American built F 15 fighter took off from an airfield in Azerbaijan. Back in 2010, Azerbaijan claimed that this and one other airfield was taken over by Armenian militants.
However, these two facilities were home to Israeli aircraft that relocated there as while participating in training exercises with the Turkish Air Force. Turkey allowed Israel to train pilots in strategic bombing in areas selected because they closely resembled potential Israeli targets in Iran.
Israel would send 8 aircraft in for training with the Turks, 6 would return to Israel, two went on to Azerbaijan in preparation for a planned air assault on Iran. To aid this effort, Saudi Arabia put out cover stories stating that it had denied Israeli requests to cross their territory to attack Iran.
These bases are supplied through the Georgian seaport of Poti. Armaments for the “attack that never happened” were offloaded in Poti by the USS Grapple in 2010 and shipped with help of Chechen extremists working with the Jamestown Foundation and Rand Corporation.
Those two organizations were recently found to be working with groups in Turkey in support of ISIS operations in Iraq as reported by Jeffrey Silverman, Veterans Today Bureau Chief working out of Tbilisi.
The reason for the attack on the airliner is not clear and can only be speculated on. This is an extremely serious incident. Pro-Russian separatists in the Ukraine have no air defense systems capable of operating that high, or a need for them with air ground attack being their main concern.
US surveillance which includes AWAC, drones and satellites is capable of detecting the launch of any air defense missile, ground based, capable of reaching the necessary 32,000 foot altitude.
Such a weapon would have been spotted in seconds and, as all such systems in the region are under continual surveillance due to the sensitive nature of the conflict and the history of allegations made, making claims we expect to be made outlandish.
There are questions. Why two Malaysian Airlines planes? If someone or something so threatening that this act was seen as “reasonable and justified,” even by the Israelis, was undertaken, we will never hear the truth. Minimally, biological or chemical agents capable of global holocaust would have to have been onboard.
After the disappearance of Flight 370, author Chris Bollyn published photographs of a plane that looked identical to flight 370 stating that plane was in Israel and was likely to be used by that nation in a terror attack. The story, both fascinating and yet reeking of wild conspiracy theory, dominated alternative media for some time. There is now serious reason to reassess the story, why was it written, what were the sources and was it simply a hoax or tied to something far more serious.
The only other possibility is destabilization of the region and to push for a world war. It is reasonable to suggest that an Israeli plane was involved because we know they have the only clandestine capability within the region.
As to the plot or reason, simply blaming Israel is not supportable, no more than blaming Hamas for murdering the 3 children a few short weeks ago.
Thus, we assume these as high probability:
- An aircraft was used, most likely an American built F15 because of range and capability.
- Azerbaijan was used because we know of clandestine bases there, which were confirmed by military officers who defected to Iran in 2013.
- We know Israel has some role, yet undefined, because they are spreading stories blaming Russia.
- As this is a second Malaysian Airlines plane to go down, we look for false stories regarding Israel and Malaysian planes and reassess their meaning.
- As is always the case, que bono, who benefits?
We ask readers to watch the world news and those in the region, report directly to our bureau there.
Fri, Jul 18, 2014
By ORIENTAL REVIEW
On July 17, 2014 the madness of three-month-long Ukrainian military conflict in the East has brought the first shocking international consequence. At 3.20PM GMT the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-200 jet flight #MH-17 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala-Lumpur disappeared inside the Ukrainian airspace right above the area of intense military combat in Donetsk region and crushed near Grabovo village, around 60 km to the east from Donetsk. All 285 passengers and 15 crew members have reportedly died.
According to data available the airliner “was moving at the altitude of 10,600 meters on the 350th flight level”. This flight level was opened for international transit flights, despite since July 8, 2014 the Ukrainian aviation authorities “did not recommend” international transit flights in the area below 302th level i.e. 9600 meters due to the “anti-terrorist operation” unleashed in the area involving Ukrainian pursuit aviation and air-defense capabilities in action. So formally the Malaysian company complied with the ruling of Ukrainian civil aviation authority although the security risk for the flight was evident.
The area of the catastrophe is indeed the epicentre of the ongoing fierce fighting between regular Ukrainian army units and rebellious armed militias of Novorossia opposing anti-constitutional February coup d’etat in Kiev. An informed source monitoring operational situation in the area has revealed earlier on Wednesday that a battery of Buk antiaircraft missile systems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was deployed near Donetsk.
At present, another battery of the same missile systems is being loaded in Kharkiv. The aircraft flying at the altitude of more than 10,000 meters might be hit only with weapons like S-300 or Buk. The militias don’t have such weapons, and cannot afford them as it was acknowledged even by the Ukrainian Defense minister Valery Galetey in a statement on another issue two days before the Flight MH-17 tragedy:
“…a “powerful weapon” must have been used to down the plane flying at 6,500 meters, an altitude the shoulder-fired missiles used by the separatists can’t reach.”
The Russian military expert Igor Korotchenko argues that the catastrophe in Donetsk was most likely caused by the incompetence and non-professionalism of the Ukrainian operators of the Buk systems during its testing after the battery was deployed in the new location. He said that the Ukrainian antiaircraft unit did not have any kind of proper training for the last 23 years since the collapse of Soviet Union.
What happened today is hardly the first case of “errant shooting” of the Ukrainian military on civilian air targets. On October 4, 2001 the Russian Siberia Airline flight #1812 Tel-Aviv-Novosibirsk carrying 66 passengers and 12 crew members was erroneously hit by a Ukrainian missile over the Black Sea during military exercises, which was eventually admitted by the Ukrainian side. No one on board survived.
So regardless the MH-17 incident was caused by the criminal negligence and incompetence of the Ukrainian military or deliberate (and reckless) Kiev’s provocation to put blame on Russia, the strong international committment to make Kiev immediately halt its punitive actions in Novorossia until all the circumstances of the tragedy are thoroughly investigated is urgently needed.
Location map of the point (marked in red) of the air strike against Flight MH-17 according to the flight tracking data.