Malaysian 777 Shot Down Over Ukraine Updated

Getting Past the Lies

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Israeli owned Fox News propagandizing for a World War, blames Russian ground based missiles

by Gordon Duff with Jim W. Dean

From Jeffrey Silverman, VT Bureau Chief Tbilisi

We spoke to air catastrophe and air-defence specialists. Here are several points they drew our attention towards:

1) It is not a fact that it was a “Buk” air-defence system and in general nothing is fact for the air catastrophe experts before the investigation is carried out.  According to the Chicago convention, Ukraine has to carry out the investigation (as the jet fell down on our territory), and anybody can be included in the committee. For an objective investigation, we have to capture the territory where the jet fell, and at least document the parts of the plane, bodies, traces of the attack part of the missiles’ damage on video (is it is a “Buk,” then metal rods, if it is a C-200 – ball-bearing parts etc.), find the black boxes etc.

2) The air traffic services should have closed this zone for flights right after the AN-26 was taken down yesterday from a height unaccessible for the man-portable air-defence system. Before it was closed up to 8 (we think) kilometres, it was enough for protection from the man-portable system (the missiles are small and have enough fuel for 4-5 kilometres only).  From the perspective of civil aviation safety, the fall of the jet is our mistake and Ukraine should be the one to pay compensations. And this is a huge blow to Ukraine as an aviation transportation operator.

3) As to the “Buk”: in theory, for the system’s successful work, a minimum of 4 out of 5 vehicles within the complex is necessary: the commandment car, the target locator car, the targeting car and the firing point with the missiles.  One can do without the charging car, which transports additional missiles, in case the missiles have been set up on the firing point in advance.  15-17 highly-qualified military specialists are needed to service these military specialists.

4) The principle of action of “Buk” air-defence system: – under close supervision of the commander, the locator determines the target and the coordinates; – the operator of the firing system launches the missile in the given direction; – the targeting car lights up the target with radio waves; – this reflected signal is captured by the self-targeting system of the missiles and its computer corrects the course; – the missile explodes several metres before reaching the plane, sending metal rods flying everywhere that damage the fuselage, the engines, the electric system etc.

5) “Buk’s” range is 40-50 kilometres horizontally and 20-25 vertically. It is a general military weapon (covers the soldiers from air attack directly on the battlefield), and not an air-defence forces weapon.

6) The air-defence system’s locators show three kinds of targets (as radio signals):  – missile (one leading engine); – destroyer, storm jet or a similar small military jet (the turbine of the engine creates a recognisable radio signal); – strategic bombarder or transportation jet (a big plane with many engines). The latter category could include a passenger vessel, as the radio image is identical.

7) If it is a “Buk,” then:  – it could have come from Russian territory. The caterpillar track can take the vehicles even through fields; – it could have been part of the captured Ukrainian Armed Forces division (if they indeed had all the parts of the complex). However military specialists for such accordant work were clearly imported, the reserve army is insufficient in this case; – it could have even worked from Russian territory, somewhere around Kuybyshevo. However, the Boeing was moving with its cruising speed (about 900 km/hr) and during the fall its parts continued falling to the east because of inertia.

8) This could have been not a “Buk,” but a different air-defence system.

9) Additional materials regarding “Buk” – http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/buk-2m/buk-2m.shtml

10) But this is all in theory, we need EVIDENCE – data from civil radars, military equipment, satellites, CONTROL OVER THE CRASH SITE, not to allow the locals to take the parts for scrap metal et


Update:  With the “breaking” stories on the media about “purported/alleged” intercepted phone calls, I am making a call.  Think of this as an election.  Go to Huffington Post, the Daily Beast or Fox News.  The Daily Beast actually accuses Putin himself of doing this.  Of course, that publication is owned by Jane Harmon, accused Israeli master spy, caught by FBI trying to arrange for the very illegal release of Jonathan Pollard.

Israel did it.  Why?  No one else could, no one else gains anything, call it cover for Gaza, call us all anti-semites or self-hating Jews or whatever.  This is part of a criminal rampage.


Breaking: From Global Travel Industry News:

ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.

The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.

Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.

Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.

Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.

Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.

According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.

Putin controversy continues:

Malaysian Airlines MH17 plane was travelling almost the same route as Russia’s President Vladimir Putin’s jet shortly before the crash that killed 298, Interfax news agency reports citing sources.

LIVE UPDATES:Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash in Ukraine

“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing  intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was  close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters.  The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the  Malaysian aircraft – 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the  news agency on condition of anonymity.

“The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions  are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote  distance they are almost identical”, the source added.

At the same time, there have been reports contradicting Intefax’s  report that was the first and the only media source to publish  the news, saying that Presidential plane was not flying over  Ukraine at the same time.

As a source told Gazeta.ru online news portal, Putin’s plane does  take off from Vnukovo-3 [the terminal that accepts business  jets], but the president does not fly over the conflict-gripped  neighboring country.

“Putin has only one jet – Board One, he does not fly other  planes. This plane always takes off from Vnukovo-3, but the  presidential plane have not been flying over Ukraine for a  while,” the source at Vnukovo-3 terminal said.

President Putin was on his way from Brazil, where he attended the  BRICS summit, to Moscow.

‘Tragedy would’t have taken place if there was peace in Ukraine’

Ukraine should bear responsibility for Malaysian airliner  tragedy, said the head  of the Russian state at a meeting on economic issues, which he  proposed to start with a minute of silence in memory of the  victims of the disaster.


Israel

Finger pointed at Israel:  Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, former Jesuit and confirmed “nutter” let his Israeli handlers put his “nutters” in the ringer this time.  “They” chose the weakest minded western leader possible to peddle an outlandish story, one that leads back to Tel Aviv, increasingly recognized as the puppet masters behind the Kiev junta.

Australian PM: ‘Russian-Backed Rebels’ Appear To Be Behind Malaysia Plane Crash

Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said on Friday that “Russian-backed rebels” appeared to be behind the shooting down of a Malaysia Airlines passenger jetliner over eastern Ukraine

Unconfirmed: Malaysian plane mistaken for Putin’s private jet which had flown over the area only moments before, leaving Israel and the Kiev junta as prime suspects.  This may well have been an assassination attempt on Putin.

We have people on the scene now (1:45PM EST) who have found a bag of passports and medical equipment.  We will keep you updated.

With the beginning of the Israeli ground attack on Gaza, might they well claim the plane was:

  1. An “Egyptian horse barge,” shot down by mistake
  2. Spying on Israeli troop movements

(ref:  USS Liberty Israeli cover stories)

From Mike Harris:

Malaysia hosted the war crimes tribunals which found George W Bush and company guilty as well as Israel guilty of war crimes, perhaps this is why they were targeted.

Update:  If, as claimed a BUK missile was fired at Putin’s plane.  President Putin’s version of Air Force One has extensive ECM modules capable of jamming incoming missiles.  Were a missile fired at them and it locked on, ECM, as with America’s “Air Force One,” would jam the missile systems.  It is also likely that Russia has a “back door” into all systems they build, such as the one the “Ukies” had deployed outside Donetsk..

We have no confirmation that Putin’s plane had a fighter escort but are assuming it did not.  Were a missile to have hit the Malaysian plane, evidence will be easily discernible and missile wreckage should already have been found.

As to whether an air-to-air or ground-to-air missile is found to be the culprit, we should know in hours unless that is suppressed.  Either way, John McCain’s childish threats, to only go after those responsible if they happen to be enemies of his “handlers,” was an unwise statement.


Initial stories, traced back to Israeli intelligence, that a Russian jet is responsible for downing the Malaysian Airlines 777 with all aboard, are being disseminated to anyone stupid enough to listen.  Showing their hand this early is a monumental blunder.

Real "non 9/11" plane wreckage
Real “non 9/11” plane wreckage

Here is what we have so far, unconfirmed.  An American built F 15 fighter took off from an airfield in Azerbaijan.  Back in 2010, Azerbaijan claimed that this and one other airfield was taken over by Armenian militants.

However, these two facilities were home to Israeli aircraft that relocated there as while participating in training exercises with the Turkish Air Force.  Turkey allowed Israel to train pilots in strategic bombing in areas selected because they closely resembled potential Israeli targets in Iran.

Real "non 9/11" air crash evidence
Real “non 9/11” air crash evidence

Israel would send 8 aircraft in for training with the Turks, 6 would return to Israel, two went on to Azerbaijan in preparation for a planned air assault on Iran.  To aid this effort, Saudi Arabia put out cover stories stating that it had denied Israeli requests to cross their territory to attack Iran.

These bases are supplied through the Georgian seaport of Poti.  Armaments for the “attack that never happened” were offloaded in Poti by the USS Grapple in 2010 and shipped with help of Chechen extremists working with the Jamestown Foundation and Rand Corporation.

What wasn't on the Pentagon lawn...
What wasn’t on the Pentagon lawn…

Those two organizations were recently found to be working with groups in Turkey in support of ISIS operations in Iraq as reported by Jeffrey Silverman, Veterans Today Bureau Chief working out of Tbilisi.

The reason for the attack on the airliner is not clear and can only be speculated on.  This is an extremely serious incident.  Pro-Russian separatists in the Ukraine have no air defense systems capable of operating that high, or a need for them with air ground attack being their main concern.

US surveillance which includes AWAC, drones and satellites is capable of detecting the launch of any air defense missile, ground based, capable of reaching the necessary 32,000 foot altitude.

real evidence doesn't "disappear"
real evidence doesn’t “disappear”

Such a weapon would have been spotted in seconds and, as all such systems in the region are under continual surveillance due to the sensitive nature of the conflict and the history of allegations made, making claims we expect to be made outlandish.

There are questions.  Why two Malaysian Airlines planes?  If someone or something so threatening that this act was seen as “reasonable and justified,” even by the Israelis, was undertaken, we will never hear the truth.  Minimally, biological or chemical agents capable of global holocaust would have to have been onboard.

After the disappearance of Flight 370, author Chris Bollyn published photographs of a plane that looked identical to flight 370 stating that plane was in Israel and was likely to be used by that nation in a terror attack.  The story, both fascinating and yet reeking of wild conspiracy theory, dominated alternative media for some time.  There is now serious reason to reassess the story, why was it written, what were the sources and was it simply a hoax or tied to something far more serious.

The only other possibility is destabilization of the region and to push for a world war.  It is reasonable to suggest that an Israeli plane was involved because we know they have the only clandestine capability within the region.

As to the plot or reason, simply blaming Israel is not supportable, no more than blaming Hamas for murdering the 3 children a few short weeks ago.

Thus, we assume these as high probability:

  • An aircraft was used, most likely an American built F15 because of range and capability.
  • Azerbaijan was used because we know of clandestine bases there, which were confirmed by military officers who defected to Iran in 2013.
  • We know Israel has some role, yet undefined, because they are spreading stories blaming Russia.
  • As this is a second Malaysian Airlines plane to go down, we look for false stories regarding Israel and Malaysian planes and reassess their meaning.
  • As is always the case, que bono, who benefits?

We ask readers to watch the world news and those in the region, report directly to our bureau there.


Who shot down the Malaysian jet over Ukraine?

Fri, Jul 18, 2014

Phenomenon of Terrorism, Ukraine

By ORIENTAL REVIEW

On July 17, 2014 the madness of three-month-long Ukrainian military conflict in the East has brought the first shocking international consequence.  At 3.20PM GMT the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-200 jet flight #MH-17 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala-Lumpur disappeared inside the Ukrainian airspace right above the area of intense military combat in Donetsk region and crushed near Grabovo village, around 60 km to the east from Donetsk. All 285 passengers and 15 crew members have reportedly died.

According to data available the airliner “was moving at the altitude of 10,600 meters on the 350th flight level”. This flight level was opened for international transit flights, despite since July 8, 2014 the Ukrainian aviation authorities “did not recommend” international transit flights in the area below 302th level i.e. 9600 meters due to the “anti-terrorist operation” unleashed in the area involving Ukrainian pursuit aviation and air-defense capabilities in action. So formally the Malaysian company complied with the ruling of Ukrainian civil aviation authority although the security risk for the flight was evident.

The area of the catastrophe is indeed the epicentre of the ongoing fierce fighting between regular Ukrainian army units and rebellious armed militias of Novorossia opposing anti-constitutional February coup d’etat in Kiev. An informed source monitoring operational situation in the area has revealed earlier on Wednesday that a battery of Buk antiaircraft missile systems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was deployed near Donetsk.

At present, another battery of the same missile systems is being loaded in Kharkiv. The aircraft flying at the altitude of more than 10,000 meters might be hit only with weapons like S-300 or Buk. The militias don’t have such weapons, and cannot afford them as it was acknowledged even by the Ukrainian Defense minister Valery Galetey in a statement on another issue two days before the Flight MH-17 tragedy:

“…a “powerful weapon” must have been used to down the plane flying at 6,500 meters, an altitude the shoulder-fired missiles used by the separatists can’t reach.”

The Russian military expert Igor Korotchenko argues that the catastrophe in Donetsk was most likely caused by the incompetence and non-professionalism of the Ukrainian operators of the Buk systems during its testing after the battery was deployed in the new location. He said that the Ukrainian antiaircraft unit did not have any kind of proper training for the last 23 years since the collapse of Soviet Union.

What happened today is hardly the first case of “errant shooting” of the Ukrainian military on civilian air targets. On October 4, 2001 the Russian Siberia Airline flight #1812 Tel-Aviv-Novosibirsk carrying 66 passengers and 12 crew members was erroneously hit by a Ukrainian missile over the Black Sea during military exercises, which was eventually admitted by the Ukrainian side. No one on board survived.

So regardless the MH-17 incident was caused by the criminal negligence and incompetence of the Ukrainian military or deliberate (and reckless) Kiev’s provocation to put blame on Russia, the strong international committment to make Kiev immediately halt its punitive actions in Novorossia until all the circumstances of the tragedy are thoroughly investigated is urgently needed.

Location map of the point (marked in red) of the air strike against Flight MH-17 according to the flight tracking data.

Location map of the point (marked in red) of the air strike against Flight MH-17 according to the flight tracking data.

207 COMMENTS

  1. Another thing, how was the Ukraine government releasing photos of crash site victims if it’s supposed to be under separatist control? Would separatists allow Ukraine media? Surely any other media would send photos to home base, not to the government.

    Kind of suspicious of who has been there on scene, if it was a false flag, they’d probably want control of the site.

  2. I recall watching an interview at the crash scene fairly early on where the guy said he had collected about 30 passports – I’m pretty sure he was a westerner, just got a feeling it may be relevant but haven’t been able to find it again.

    • yeah we were shown pictures of a tidy pile of fresh-looking Eu passports.
      Who would have such a neat collection of same, following scorched catastrophe?

    • ptwang, it’s at truthstreammedia.com, Melissa Melton. many of the pics, even on VT, appear faked, or out of context, like the shiny waxed parts of the fuselage, garments, new, never used, etc., same time there are acres of charred wreckage.

      joe

      there is a new post at VT, as you may know.

    • No, finding a portion in good / unburnt condition like this is quite likely but these are brand new despite the old issue date, one of them was cancelled (triangle cut out) and another had a computer generated picture for some reason.

  3. If the report about a warning message appeared on a Russian blog a month ago, then all Gordon’s report or analysis would appear to be ???? http //www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-mh17-plane-crash-3883544

  4. I have no idea what just published or not.
    Our computer got very busy, I had to force it down, we almost never do that.
    If it is the VT guys, you have but to ask, I am Gentleman.
    I don’t think you would be that cute.
    We just got bad attention, I guess I am doing something right.
    I will fix the computers as need be.

    John

  5. Mr Putin,
    I think you or one of your staff probably reads this,
    Speaking only for me (and we could argue over coffee maybe.
    We came out of very different backgrounds,
    and have different duties.
    You behave and we have your back.

    John

  6. Went back on survey, just like we thought,
    a litany of sorrow and sadness.
    No wonder I take a break once in a while.
    Well I’m Baaaack
    And not a happy camper.
    You guys are one of the bright spots in my day (yell at me if I get stupid, promise?
    There were two b baker billion walking on two ’bout when I hatched.
    Now (and I would not believe them if they say the sun is shining.
    But anyway they say there are seven now, I figure about 4.5 will remain (I mentioned)
    And as we speak bamalama is on my TV trying to ‘explain’
    That little piece of shit will burn in hell in due course
    (with my recommendation, and I carry some weight in that sector.
    They are after Putin again, let me guess.
    This is so damn obvious but you had to have been paying attention
    (to something other than the latest ball game dammit!)

    John

    John

    • Have you noticed, everyone has ‘terrorists’
      How very convenient, call them bad names you can dispatch them and no one takes it amiss,
      Look.
      Terrorism’ is a Tactic (you following me yet, pay attention
      Terrorism is a Tactic.
      It is not a new concept,
      you will find it mentioned in movies as old as we are (and that is too damn old!
      But if it is all the same I plan on getting a lot older.
      I am inspired by my ‘old friend’ and scared by the ones it didn’t go good.
      Here we are, and I am still functioning,
      and caring less by the day what the ‘bad guys’ think,
      and more concerned if you find fault.
      I have the latitude to ponder, Thanks.
      These assholes declared war on a tactic.
      And the nice Peorians think they are safe.

      John

    • The nice folks are out there living trivial lives.
      They (most) do not know.
      The only people I know who are mean to me visit here.
      And those are few, most of you seem to be having the same bad dream I am (give or take)
      In that I find some comfort,

      John

      Out on teh street I do juast fine,
      They have no idea what I am, up to.
      Thing locally, act globally?
      Look, my Nice Neighbors did not sign on for this.
      I did.

      Jjohn

  7. Means Full Spectrum Dominance (FSD) weapon capabilities not available to ‘Freedom Fighters’ sic separatist groups or factions and cut-outs due to high costs without support from most involved players; Mossad or CIA Mode M.O. ‘dirtying up’ Putin & distract from Israel’s recent attack in Gaza
    Opportunity Using NATO maneuvers as cover UKRAINIAN fighters reported to be, not confirmed, flying aside MAL It is illogical to blame Russia since Putin has nothing to gain perpetrating such blatant act of terror. He is already being painted as enemy by US bean counters and political hawks, those confirmed traitors and liars the likes of Sen.McCain,Trotsky-ites and others; Who jump into media frenzy as usual without ever providing any solid evidence, who continuously disseminate dis-info intent on stirring up hostilities in the ME/CAR regions now grand-standing this event to accuse and hopefully provoke Russia to war. VT readers familiar w/way FOX etc predictably, ALWAYS first to point blame and start spin on stories (Cui bono) directed at Wall Street’s enemies, just another reason I believe this is a black op. Perpetrators are sending cryptic message to Putin & entourage ‘we could have just as easily taken out your jet’. Final analysis contingent 1) upon recovering absconded Ukrainian radar records, which is not likely before they are doctored 2) Discovery of ‘rods’ associated with BUK delivery system components. E.I. reports Agency involved planted the expl device on board.

  8. We are all getting old.
    If we do not fix this the kids are screwed.
    We will be off to the great beyond in any case.
    The kids (bless them) do not know the stuff it takes under these conditions.
    They have yet to put their first fire out
    We have the experience, and we damn well better get this done.

    John

  9. All accidents yield questions that must be answered but they usually have some kind of starting point, a baseline that is recognizable and agreed upon by investigators. This tragedy keeps changing exponentially and every answer creates more questions. The following article asks why the plane was off its usual route, similar to the KAL plane shot down over the USSR years ago.

    http //www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/was-malaysian-airlines-mh-17-accidentally-shot-down-over-ukraine

  10. Dear Gordon, this is one of your VERY GOOD articles again (I may
    disagree *locally*, on technicalities so to speak, with you on
    other issues).

    I invite you to read (if not already)

    http //politikus.ru/events/24720-strasti-po-boingu-pervye-priznaki-rakety-vozduh-vozduh-sbival-ne-buk-m1.html

    In the (rather technical) article they say that MH17 has been
    knocked down by AAMs (R-27 or R-73) **NOT** by SAMs.

    • Also on

      http //militariorg.ucoz.ru/publ/publ_1/strasti_po_boingu_pervye_priznaki_rakety_vozdukh_vozdukh_sbival_ne_buk_m1/15-1-0-35571

  11. Nationalities passengers, 192 NL, 44 MY, 27 AU, 12 ID. MH17 has
    been shot down less than two weeks before Idul Fitri, or
    *Lebaran*, i.e., the Christmas feast of the Muslims so to speak
    (when everyone comes home).

    Indonesia and Malaysia do not allow dual nationalities (and
    rightly so). I wonder how many of those passengers with Dutch
    passport where naturalized Indonesians and Malaysians joining
    *home* for Lebaran.

    Flights from KUL, Kuala Lumpur, to most Indonesian destinations
    are a snap and there are many of them on daily base. Comparable
    nonstop flights–Singapore Airlines, Garuda–are generally more
    expensive; booking for flights during pre-Lebaran has to be made
    MONTHS in advance BTW; Emirates, Qatar, and similar flights last
    typically much longer (with transit phases lasting hours); etc.

    And now to the point do you see a similarity with 9/11, with the
    *terrorists* kindly taking down the towers at the most
    *favorable* time (a minimum of *non spendable*
    causalities/collateral damage limiting)?

    192 NL + 44 MY + 12 ID, likely many of them ethnic Malaysians/
    Indonesians… Making the most % of the victims…

    • Malaysian Airlines MH17 Passenger List Names Of 15 Crew Members Released By
      Malaysia Media

      http //www.ibtimes.com/malaysian-airlines-mh17-passenger-list-names-15-crew-members-released-malaysia-media-1631888

      Captain Wan Amran Bin Wan Hussin (male, 50 years old)
      Captain Eugene Choo Jin Leong (male, 45 years old)
      Vice- captain Ahmad Hakimi Bin Hanapi (male, 29 years old)
      Vice- captain Muhamad Firdaus Bin Abdul Rahim (male, 27 years old)
      Mohd Ghafar Bin Abu Bakar (male, 54 years old)
      Dora Shamila Binti Kassim (female, 47 years old)
      Azrina Binti Yakob (female, 41 years old)
      Lee Hui Pin (female, 42 years old)
      Mastura Binti Mustafa (female, 40 years old)
      Chong Yee Pheng (female, 40 years old)
      Shaikh Mohd Noor Bin Mahmood (male, 44 years old)
      Sanjid Singh Sandhu (male, 41 years old)
      Hamfazlin Sham Binti Mohamed Arifin (female, 42 years old)
      Nur Shazana Binti Mohamed Salleh (female, 31 years old)
      Angeline Premila Rajandaran (female, 30 years old)

      ***

      10/15 crew MH17 were Muslims. Bin = son of…, binti = daughter of… x Muslims
      exclusively. Ex., A bin B means A son of B (where B is always the name of the
      father), C binti D means C daughter of D (D = father).
      3/15 were ethnic Chinese (likely).
      2/15 Indian or Iranian (Angeline is first name for a Christian)

    • Thanks.
      Who cares what we do not agree about.
      This is business (they are trying to give us the Business,
      I think we should take it and dispatch them.

      John

  12. A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

    The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that “a significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh,” adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

    The Malaysia Airlines Boeing-777 was shot down Thursday, killing all 298 people aboard. The plane was flying 10,000 meters above an area where Ukrainian forces have been fighting separatist rebels. Each side accuses the other of downing the plane.

    U.S. intelligence authorities said a surface-to-air missile brought down the plane, and U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power told the U.N. Security Council in New York on Friday that the missile was likely fired from a rebel-held area near the Russian border.

    Girkin said “Ukrainian authorities are capable of any baseness.”

    He claimed that a large amount of blood serum and medications were found in the wreckage.

    http //news.yahoo.com/rebel-leader-gives-bizarre-account-plane-crash-182256709.html

    Another Zionist false flag.

  13. Concentrates the mind.
    I could never imagine addressing you kind folks as I do.
    It just happened, one thing follows another,
    I am a Systems Analyst (big words, I’ll bet you are impressed!
    Actually few of you even know what a Systems Analyst is, let alone how they happen
    That is not important now, this one (me)
    is friendly, and I want your kids to understand.
    You can too, not my point.
    This is the Big One ‘lizabeth.
    I know that’s what they all say,
    But thy are not you or me.
    I think the bad guys are in bad trouble, and this is part of why that is.
    My Best to You.
    If i seem a snooty asshole you do not know me very well.

    John

  14. I agree, Putin has other amusements,
    and is a educated guy.
    I actually like him a lot.
    This is the part where we all sort ourselves.
    You too can be special, we are always looking for talent.
    And in our spare time we keep an eye on the store.
    I did not say nor imply we are able to jump tall whatevers,
    We will help if we can, you need to decide where you think the train should go.
    I am from Administrative Services (and you get to pick the train and the destination.
    Our charge is to make sure you get there in one piece.

    John

    • Some people try to take us off task,
      By distracting.
      I might seem like that at times but I know better.
      I always have a method to my madness.
      You guys deserve a lot better (and I will give it a try)
      It is a fine line between background and trolling.
      I am aware of that.
      I have more spare time activities.. oh never mind.
      Just know I play keyboards and sing and design widgets.
      That was 20 years ago.
      You must be pretty important to me or I would be fishing.
      You (and I do not know you from Adam (as should be
      You are generically important to me.
      I hope that helps.
      The task as I see it is to make life fun and worthwhile,
      something you could teach your children.
      As you know we have a way to go.
      Thank You for tolerating my presentation.
      I did not get paid a cent (and I do not need it.
      Dirty little secret, I have what I need, My Cup Runneth
      You guys are some of the most precious, now don’t let that get around.

      John

    • Actually if you are into inverts and official denials,
      This would be rich.
      I think they were aiming at Putin, Now to say he did it is just too damn cute.

      John

  15. Something I should mention,
    You are having fun playing with the fire
    I am here to put the fire out, and we have a lot of stuff we could do for amusement.
    This is not an amusement, Duty Calls.We are a lot like you, but not entirely.
    You are waiting for us to do your homework.
    We will in fact perform, but not for your pleasure.

    John

    John

    • and you will go down in history
      as the ones who did not ‘do it’
      This is not my railroad, but if the trains stay on the tracks
      It will be no thanks to you.
      You could maybe have done this, but I guess you were busy.
      I am here to preserve the system at large,
      if you find me inconvenient you can join the line,.

      John

  16. I also thought about NATO drills. SF “Putin Warns Obama Of “Catastrophic War Game” Minutes Before Malaysian Jet Destroyed”. “…within 5-minutes of President Putin warning his US counterpart, President Obama, that “war games” being carried out by NATO member Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) forces over Romania could lead to a “potential catastrophe”, Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was destroyed over the eastern conflict region of Ukraine.

    According to this report, Putin was in flight during his call to Obama returning to Moscow aboard his presidential aircraft from Brazil when he was notified that there were a number of “critical radar anomalies” occurring over EUROCONTROL zones in Central Europe…”

    • LightSaber, doesn’t it bother you just a bit that the report comes from Sorcha Faal, the disinfo artist from Virginia? Beware Sorcha Faal; he is NOT for the truth. Christopher Story outed him long ago, his name, location, and all. Here’s the Sorcha report; discernment advised.
      http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1784.htm

    • I know. But he’s the only one to point out possible interference of NATO drills, something I thought of immediately when heard the news about the plane. You know, those drills are there for a reason. And t(he)y always provide some interesting angle with some seeds of truth.in it, although twisted in the end. What would be the harm, anyway, if the report about those drills involvement were true? What is the damage actually done by SF?
      And the EUROCONTROL anomalies few weeks ago are not coincidence, I am sure. Remember that drills quite often go “hot” with detrimental effects, people should be always alarmed by them and monitor closely.

  17. How about breaking news soon reporting unexpected, violent torrential storm forming abruptly in contrary to all known models over the area of the crash and destroying a lot of evidence there?

  18. Yeah, it’s very dangrous to whistleblow to George Noory. I took up a subscription to C2C back in 2010 so that I could send a private message to that guy, to tell him to watch Khalezov’s 9/11 video. That night, my computer (which was left on stand-by) was hacked and a scary message was put in there to put the frighteners on me. It’s all rather amusing now but back then, I was shitting bricks (which was what they had intended). Actually they wanted much more than to merely scare me but that was all they succeeded in doing. LOL!

    • So you were there too.
      Art Bell is an interesting fellow.
      Just like always, if something good pops up ‘they’;’ try to hijack it.
      Meanwhile,
      Art Bell is like the Saturday Tonight gang (the original, and they never got it back up did they?
      But the kids went on to make really good movies.
      Noory is a schill and I take him a creep.

      John

  19. Frankly Speaking
    Damn! The info must have been really good because all those pages are no longer available. At least, they are not available to me but the NSA/DHS/CIA have me on their naughty list so I tend to be denied webpages which others can see. Have you retained copies? If so, can you upload them to a few sites and give us the links so we can see them too, please?

    • I am sure you are right, I will look,
      What interesting times
      I always wanted to do something useful. we’ll see.
      When I am awake I don’t know if I am dreaming,
      And when I am dreaming I don’t know if I am awake.

      John

  20. 290 people lost their lives yesterday. I blame the guy who launched the missile. Even the US is in agreement that it was a Ukrainian plane that caused the incident. Of course their still blaming President Putin because he as yet to control the violence started by neo-facist thugs which caused the pilot to attack a passenger airliner.

    *****http //www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/18/371850/obama-blames-russia-for-mh17-plane-crash/*****

  21. yep; the video and many of the bright-colored pics are faked, for the reasons you mention. pieces of clean fuselage, in nice grass, men standing on them -apparent fakes. while acres of charred wreckage, still smoking.

    not sure what to conclude, beyond that. not likely that plane parts and bodies are planted, given where it is located.

    joe

    • Whadaya wannabet somebodies kids are dead.
      You all need to understand, my apparent cynicism is at once a defense mechanism
      (but I need much more powerful stuff)
      This is how I stay more or less functioning.
      And I cry, and that helps (big boys do cry)
      I mostly am just Resolute, I have been at this too long,
      And I am not fooling around.
      Like I said before this is for the Prize.
      From what I have gathered (yes we have a crew) we are from the home office.
      Somebody Up There must like us very much (I will settle if you will kindly trust us)
      I know it sounds nuts, but look around there is a lot of ‘nutz’ going around.
      I ended up the PR for an outfit that has no PR.
      I am here to afford comfort and a warning,
      We Cannot Fix This (for that we require your kind assistance
      Keep watching, do useful things,
      do not join the fools on the street they only make noise.
      My Best to You.

      John’

  22. I have been mercifully off in the ozone (or as close as we could find)
    Meanwhile it looks like they blew up a perfectly good airliner.
    Maybe I chose the wrong week to quit sniffing gas (do not do that by the way)
    Some Fun You Bet.
    We (in my opinion) need to be less reactionary the more the bad guys throw.
    They will all think we are stupid and are not doing anything
    this can’t be helped and only a fool would endeavor to ‘fix’ that.
    We are ‘doing stuff’ (but I do not want to talk about it just now, OK?
    You feel comfy with that? (I hope so, this is the part where telling you the truth is supposed to pay off.

    John

  23. We inhabit a world of taters and onions (fix some steak we could eat good.
    But Seriously
    Taters are homogenous, one slice is a lot like the next
    Onions have layers, and you peel that, and there is another layer.
    You are surrounded by Onions here.

    John

  24. Look, I am not even the self appointed hall monitor.
    Clog the place with trivialities and they will all leave.
    They can go anywhere for that, which is why I present a moving target.
    I commend the guys that hatched this forum thanks for having me around
    it is more important than I thought.
    If you ever wanted a place where you can talk to interesting people,
    some of whom can ‘make stuff happen’
    Use This and Have Great Respect for what these guys gave us.
    It Is as close to what we need as can be had.
    What we need is for the Bad Man to stop.
    And so we compare notes and hope the ‘bad guy’ does itself an injury (speaking of course only for me.

    John

    But ewwe are smarter than that.

    John’

  25. My primary concern at this point If the “perpetraitors” don’t succeed with the spin of this incident as provocation for WWIII they will bomb an American city. I believe they are trying to get the war underway before the end of next week one way or another to deflect from the BRICS alliance and falsely blame Russia. They may choose a navy town since I suspect the navy is not on board with this charade.

    • Yeah I noticed that too.
      This is Real Time folks.
      This is the part where it is supposed to work.
      If you have something in store toss it on the table.
      It does not need to be perfect (but you had better have something in mind.
      We never had what we have here, and I assure you (only a guess)
      but the bad guys did not pack enough shorts.
      Use This and kindly behave (and I will too)
      Or would you prefer stuff that blows up the neighbors children.
      We are all getting to know each other, and in the process getting to know the bad guys too.
      And they are getting to know us, (and should invest in underwear)
      I do not think there is a script. (my 2 cents)
      But this is definitely interesting times
      and some really big stuff is going to sort one way or another.
      Mankind (and that includes girls) are not fit to be slaves.
      Now we have Power Tools..
      This is for the ‘prize’ folks (and not just a sports spectacle
      Feel free to yell back, I do not bite unprovoked, did I use all the photons yet?
      All kidding aside, we never had anything like this (and the bad guys want it dead)
      It is interactive, and the people who do not post outnumber us.
      So be nice and tell them something they need to know,
      maybe they will visit again later (and we should have something for them)
      And to think I just used to vacuum computers (but they smiled when they saw me.

      John

  26. When so many people are murdered at one time, I look at anniversaries, just in case. Here are two.
    July 17, 1996 — TWA Flt. 800 shot down by a missile off Long Island, NYC. 230 dead. Investigation was a farce. July 17, 1968 — Baath revolution in Iraq. Btw, July 17 was the national holiday of Iraq up until Saddam was overthrown in 2003.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_17

    • Here’s an anniversary that I think is VERY relevant, in light of possible attempt on Putin’s life.
      July 17, 1918 — Tsar Nicholas II, his family, and retainers were murdered by Bolshevik Chekists in Yekaterinburg, Russia.

    • Clif High has an update on his website. That 20th July incident he was expecting was this one. He has not revealed what he was expecting until now. And what he was expecting is a failed assassination attempt.

    • JS, well spotted.
      So, Lagarde’s occult speech was about casting a black magic spell to kill Putin.
      If you read Max Freedom Long’s book “Secret Science Behind Miracles”, it is very dangerous to use ‘death prayers’ to kill another person for if the demon fails to accomplish its task, it may well kill the summoner instead.
      Well, let’s hope all those practitioners of black magic who were trying to kill Putin will get what they richly deserve.

    • Actually, I listened to quite a bit of CL’s January speech about the magic number 7. I think she was talking in code alright, but she was talking about another event in July, supposed to be a good one, not a death. We should know soon, as July is almost gone.

    • As usual now I have to go and see what you are on about.
      Thanks,
      We have to approach this thing from the aspect
      that none of us have enough hours in the day,
      It Takes a Village
      (you can shoot me now or wait ’till you get home (Pronoun Trouble.
      I take comfort in that others have noticed too.
      Cold Comfort.

      John

  27. In the end of june our custom (FINLAND) found huge amount of yet unknown missile control systems and munitions going from east asia to ukraine, sender country unknown, but not russia china or korea. and the receiver in ukraine is unknown.

  28. Jim Morrison, your anti-American people schtick is getting old. It is the American government and CIA — both of which are comprised of traitors and international criminals — who are causing the problems, and is reported here daily. Americans who are not shills or trolls that comment here generally agree with that position. It is not American tourists or citizens. Guess what? You NEED Americans. Because if America goes the way of Europe, the world is screwed. Who’s going to save it – the Dutch? Joran van der Sloot?

    By the way, if you hate Americans so much, why do you use the handle “Jim Morrison?”

    • I agree with you Jake! That guy is using this forum as
      his soap box if I were Mr. Dean he would be a goner!

      Regina

    • Hey mister fantasy, play us a song,
      Something to make us all happy
      Sing a Song, Play Guitar, make it snappy.
      You are the one who can make us all laugh,
      but in doing so you break down in tears,.
      Not to be sad, if it was a straight life you had
      we wouldn’t have known you all these years.
      (with apologies to Stevie Winwood I know I did not quite get it right)
      We all know keyboard players are trouble, worse still if they sing.
      Were my ears burning? (fool on the hill)

      John

    • Mr. Dean et al have much bigger fish to fry, as I’m sure you are aware, guitargirl. They usually do get rid of trolls and those who try to hijack VT to be their personal blog. Agree with you (as usual) on soapbox.The real Jim Morrison sang more than one note.

    • Why the naked jingo nationalism.,,
      least of all given what we face.
      Do you understand you are opening fire on a ‘friend’
      You can tell the pioneers by the errors in their back.
      Were you present for that party (I was not Thank the Lord)
      And now you are hall monitor and calling on the adults in the room.
      Us kids are supposed to work it out for ourselves.
      As you mentioned Mr.Dean has bigger fish, I can only imagine and I do not envy.
      I bring my little cracker to the table, and I hope it helps.
      This is a wonderful forum never take it that I do not respect you.

      John

    • jake – I also agree with you. I wish VT would also remove the idiots like jmreeves that continually lace important article comment space with inane gibberish. My view is that this is done NOT by well meaning people with dementia or mental problems but very deliberately in order to ruin comment streams. It makes article comment difficult to read and follow – while also subtly casting a general insinuation that all VT readers have psychiatric problems. These spoilers know exactly what they are doing.

    • Totally agree – jmreeves is ruining the reader experience on this site, I am trying to follow a serious and constantly evolving topic here. There are many excellent comments, interspersed with a lot of pointless drivel from one or two. Whether they are headcases or (as Excalibur believes) it is a deliberate strategy, it needs sorting when time allows.

    • Excalibur – very well stated. Inane gibberish is a spot-on description of jmr’s “contributions.” VT usually does a good job of cleaning up the idiots eventually. Trolls and shills appear to be oblivious that they are number one on the expendables list, but they always dutifully come out en masse the closer the spotlight points to the perps. I just view them as a by-product The closer you dig to the septic tank, the more it’s going to smell like $h!t. The scroll and Page down buttons just get used a little more.

  29. Only a fool would neglect the possibility that this (the shoot down of MH17) was an Israeli operation from the start. My money is on Israel’s involvement, but it’s only a guess. Reports that the plane’s ‘black box’ is now in Moscow are highly interesting. What will the NWO do next? Are we approaching that special ‘Slim Pickens’ riding the bomb moment in history?

  30. From the Tap Blog
    Tuesday, July 15, 2014

    Rumour. George Bush senior may have died?
    Rumour has it Bush Senior popped his cloggs last Friday after a bout of food-poisoning. Does that mean he [email protected] himself to death?
    Get the sick bags ready for the psycophantic eulogies. Not going to be officially be announced til today (Tues).

    Watch the rest of the shrubbery fall apart without Poppy to pull the strings.
    Posted by Tapestry at 11 05 am
    Anonymous said…
    Must confess

    I gargoyled ‘popping his clogs’

    yielded results that almost had me falling off my chair laughing.

    But we are living in a world on the precipice

    Samson Option, i believe it is called.

    Well, if we must die, let us die laughing.
    11 14 am

    From a Dutch woman who has ‘seen’ and ‘heard’ ‘it’ all
    A Dieu xxx

  31. Both MH17 and Gaza ground operation iron fist is related to the upcoming 20 July deadline for Iranian talks with the west. To keep that under the rug, so I wonder what will happen with that deal in a few days…

  32. look at the timing people….. the ground assault on Gaza while all your attention is diverted…1.8 miilion people with NOWHERE to go, NOWHERE to hide, unarmed…hospitals targeted…Israel had called up 48,000 reserve soldiers and, later on Thursday, its cabinet authorized the military to call up 18,000 more. If there was ever a time for international intervention it is NOW. The port of Gaza….how many warships do we have just floating around in the Mediterranean?? Iran ready to send relief aid, use your warships to escort aid in through the Port of Gaza….there is no other way…as Gaza dies so does humanity. All nations have blood on their hands, all nations were deceived into supporting the birth of this Luciferian Rothschild construct they named israel, all nations are responsible to stop this…I will die on my feet before I’ll live on my knees under zionism….military’s of the world… for the love of God and humanity itself fight for truth not for lies…if ever there was a time to move it is NOW

    • ayelyahbenjamin

      International Intervention? Who? Where?

      The ICC is in the Netherlands, out of which two missing Malaysian Airline Flights have met their demise.

      OTOH Malaysia Common Law Courts have found certain ‘western’ politicians at the pinnacle of political life of their respective ’empires’ guilty of war crimes.

      These individuals seemed deranged to those of us who have eyes to see, yet they continue to earn untold fortunes in the niches they have co-created for themselves.

      Most people in Australia have nil idea of the extent of the global grasp of Zionism-while Planet Earth is in its death gasps

      just like the disgusting sexual practices that these days mark the trafficking of children for the purposes of drugs/prostitution and snuff. Protected by the Police.

      All are interrelated and many of us are happy to die rather than succumb to this NWO.

    • It is our nations that were deceived into supporting the birth of this monster, enabling, aiding and abetting it …it is our nations that must move to stop this genocide. I am here, on the ground, they are making their big move, the Palestinian people in Gaza have no defense…. Jerusalem is surrounded…for the love of God if there was ever a reason for our military’s to move it is now

    • Yes I am 100 percent with You.

      Deception and ‘spin’ is killing all life on Planet Earth.

      I am praying that there are people/advisors in the military/political systems who are willing to defy orders from crooked and bent ‘politicians’-who in reality have nil training to run their/our countries, other than a willingness to blindly follow orders

      aka sadists/psychopaths

      and do what must be done-for the Greater Good of all in our human family.

    • ***http //www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/18/371797/nbc-pulls-out-reporter-for-gaza-reports/ they make sure no-one will be left to tell the truth
      who commands our military’s ? where are they when there is a REAL reason to move?

    • I am SO sorry to say that most are ‘protecting their own interests’.

      We are truly praying for Miracles.

  33. It is fun with the latest army of hasbara trolls. Israel has just opened hasbara rooms at all major universities where student hack away hasbara all over the internet in exchange for grants, supervised by Mossad agents. Now, these “unbattle-hardened cannon fodder” will not turn anyone toward the view of Isreal and they will turn a large number away with their arrogant style and lack of knowledge and debating skill.

    Most fun though is that these young confused con-artists get exposed to ideas and facts they have never heard of in their lives and you can almost hear their brains spinning and their world view shaking…

    • will be a big backlash in Israel as these young trolls get a peak outside their iron curtain. Some of the things they’ll read – their minds will chew on for the rest of their lives.

    • You’re right.all the snarkiness in the world can’t hide the fact that Talmudia is an illegitimate nation created through recent E. European immigration, terrorism, massacres and wholesale ( but these people know wholesale ) ethnic cleansing….They’re the scum of the earth and given their espionage and false-flag terrorism ( 9-11 ) they’re easily the worst enemy the U.S. has…And they are worth mentioning bc their rogue network pushed for the coup in Kiev and their clique now controls the country…Putin Arrest the “dual national oligarchs”, confiscate their property, invade Ukraine, sell Iran and Syria S-300’s…Take the goddamn gloves off!

  34. Since you erased my comment..and if you erase this one…I will know I may be right and this is a disinfo site ….censorship is disgusting
    Perhaps that plane had no passengers at all and was intended for other purpose…such as loaded with something to attack kiev with…def false flag. It just so happened to be another Malaysian plane just like the one they took just for this purpose. It was obvious to whoever shot it down. They rarely find bodies in crashes from that alt…poss completely staged and none died

    • Funny that you should mention this – but it does strike me as extremely bad luck for Malaysian Airlines to lose not one, but TWO 777’s in the space of four months. Are there any actuaries out there who could calculate the odds?
      It was postulated at the time that MH370 had been hijacked and flown to Diego Garcia or somewhere to be used in a future false flag operation, especially after passenger Philip Wood was able to get a message out on his I-phone, which gave his GPS co-ordinates matching that of DG.

      Having watched the news report about the MH17 wreckage, I agree that there are too many bodies shown – and in all my flights I have never yet thrown my passport into a community plastic bag. It has always remained in my possession. If those passports were collected from the bodies of the passengers, they are in remarkably good condition. As some details are quite visible, it would be interesting to see if, like some of the 9-11 hijackers, they are still alive – or if they even exist.

      The website flightradar24.com showed MH17 as having been canceled, with no departure time posted. A screenshot can be viewed at Jimstonefreelance dot com. This would have provided a good opportunity to slip in MH370 under remote control of the two accompanying fighters.

      Also – the shootdown happened within 15 minutes of the Gaza ground invasion. Excellent timing on the part of the Israelis; one might even think they were psychic.

  35. Bad enough that all the talking heads have the plane tragedy solved ( Russia of course ) but will someone PLEASE explain how Johnny boy is babbling about this after all his meddling in Syria and getting who knows how many people killed! He knows nothing about this but still rambles on like he knows what he’s talking about. Would somebody please release some of his past just to shut him up. There must be tons of weirdness to choose from. He should be in a nursing home for crazy old people.

    • I get the distinct impression something very bad has happened,
      They downed an airliner, any chance I could have stood in bed.
      As chance has it I did, I never really woke up today (and some will never wake again.
      I will look at this later, and no doubt will have something for you.
      Meanwhile I am tired and disgusted with the general texture,
      and on survey, but what I find will wait until tomorrow.
      And this day started out pretty good (until I went looking)
      Best to All.

      John
      l

  36. Mr Duff,
    here is YT guy with footage of the crash, I thought you may take a look

    http //www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic_mBPDh3Dg&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

  37. have read comments on david icke, etc. I guess that one major issue will be if the “resistance” are found to possess the Buk system. one or more AP journalists said she/he saw “the Buk missiles” in a town near the Russ border a few days ago.

    no idea how the average journalist would know one missile from another.

    also, some testimonies about intercepted phone calls to Russian Intel from the DNR about their involvement. but, a farmer on his tractor said, not a quote, “heard a plane, looked up saw a plane in a steep descent, heard a boom, then two shots, the plane hit the ground.” without elaborating, this could mean many things.

    evidently many bodies still intact, but most of them no clothing except shoes. ripped apart form the wind I guess.

    joe

    • If the bodies have no clothes, they might have been bodies taken from a morgue rather than people who died in the crash. It’s very much the MO of the Illuminati to use corpses to give the impression that people have been killed. That’s what they did on 9/11 with corpses being thrown out of the twin towers. Check to see if any of the bodies have wristwatches and rings. If not, then they are corpses from the morgue

  38. CoJonesGrandes may be onto something with all the 7’s, The IMF’s own Christine Lagarde gave a very interesting encrypted speech alluding to the date of July 17,…
    http //www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmViPTndxw
    might be worth a listen… it is all about 7’s. very odd,.. or very compelling

    • Compelling indeed. Lagarde did this as a set up to an official IMF forecast for what we should expect for 2014… based on what Lagarde called the ‘magic 7’ July happens to be the seventh month of the year. Is she overtly using numerology to forecast big changes or an ‘event’? For example, Lagarde pointed out that 2014 will “mark the 7th anniversary of the financial market jitters” that started in 2007.

      If you individually add up the numbers of the year 2014 (2+0+1+4=7), you get the number 7. Lagarde also said that 2014 will mark the 70th anniversary of the Bretton Woods Conference that actually gave birth to the IMF. 70th anniversary, drop the zero, (7 + 0 = 7).

      Lagarde also said, “And it will be the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, 25th” (2 + 5 = 7). Lagarde then brings up the G-20 out of nowhere. Is that a reference to a date? G is the 7the letter of the alphabet and this might be a reference to 7/20/2014.

      7/20? Shazam! That’s this Sunday folks. Or maybe bizarrely, it was inside knowledge from another dimension, as Cojo suggests; about Flight 777 on 7/17

    • Using many calendars is standard. In the 20 day calendar, today is “empowerment, of the staff of power” and a fire day in the air. Hiding in the forest. They cannot dance across the rice paper for much longer. Synchronicity is growing.

  39. We need more info to come in on this one – however – Gordon is hot on the trail as ever. I must say that I was almost prepared to accept that this disaster had been the result of a stupid mistake or trigger happy Ukrainian army unit. (They are now very much accustomed to murdering innocents and civilians as ‘normal’ in their daily routine with impunity after all). Trouble is the outside world can’t exactly overlook this one so easily.

    Even the similarity in shape, colours and flight path of Mr Putin’s aircraft in the same air space could possibly be a ‘coincidence’ at a push.

    However, I switched around from RT to the usual western media constructs – and surprise surprise – a veritable cacophony of jewish voices and commentators were on hand by chance to lead the direction of a (uniform) narrative for us (with their fish like eyes flashing in all directions) and explaining how Russia was directly responsible for this tragedy.

    The jews have shown their hand once again far too early here. They are not as cunning as their forebears – although clearly just as evil. National intelligence agencies throughout the world will need to hang their heads in shame if they let THIS ONE pass without taking direct MILITARY action against the israeli monsters. The international gangsters MUST now be unseated and neutralized before they start work on the US mainland.

    • It would be interesting to know if any western newspapers or news agencies had an ‘obituary story’ ready for Vladimir Putin on the presses for tomorrow. All newspapers keep ‘obituary’ information on prominent people ready in the event that they die unexpectedly. Can anyone find this out?

    • You have a point I think.
      The mind boggles, most of us no one (well almost) would care if we fell in front of a Train,
      But the Peanut Gallery is guessing.
      Shades of Allen Alda in Canadian Bacon (what could I do for a 5 point bump.

      John

  40. Absolutely it’s not true that the statement “a “powerful weapon” must have been used to down the plane flying at 6,500 meters, an altitude the shoulder-fired missiles used by the separatists can’t reach.” implies
    “The militias don’t have such weapons, and cannot afford them as it was acknowledged even by the Ukrainian Defense minister Valery Galetey”.

    What about the phone conversation intercepted by SBU of a separtist discussing shooting down that airplane by his people?

    • My take is, even if that’s not the giveaway psy-ops fake, he’s just wrong. Note, he thinks one of his local militias did it. Thinks…

  41. 2 things we can always count on

    1) If it’s any kind of big disaster, including false flag events, Israeli security was involved

    2) If there is a payout to victims, Ken Feinberg controls the payout and who gets it, and what they need to sign-off on, and give up to get it

  42. Gordon, could they have taken the “inconvenient” passengers from flight 370 (the ones with no intelligence asset value), loaded them from wherever they had been holding them, put them on this flight and then blown up the plane with those poor people on board? A way to get rid of the originally hijacked plane and the people that were on board 370, AND blame it on Russia to boot?

    • I was wondering the same thing, Mary.

      Also, the first thing that came to my mind when looking at the pictures ended up being one of Gordo’s cutlines — “What wasn’t on the Pentagon lawn…”

    • The flight was diverted from its course escorted by Uk military jets to that region and shot. Is there way to confirm this? regarding mh370- I don’t think ‘they’ would bother – way too complicated – imo another plane.

  43. The United States and Israel poured few billions to organize and manage the Kiev Uprising. Israel and Israeli security forces manage and control the security of Amsterdam Schiphole Airport. The US and Israel will blame this on “terrorists” even though Israel is the party responsible for the airport security. Now, are facing another Lockerbie and do we expect the UNSC as it did in Libya, to sanction and lay siege to the United States, Israel and the Kiev Regime? Someone has to pay the price and I hope it is not Malaysia and the innocent people killed on the plane.

    • 28 Australians were on that plane, headed to an AIDS conference in Melbourne, along with others from Holland and other countries.
      Predictably, our cretinous leaders and lying media are cranking up Cold War rhetoric, but my point is that whoever did this, they are sociopaths with zero value on human life. Now I have 28 more reasons to want to strangle Victoria Nudelman …. just saying…

  44. vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/07/ukraine-sitrep-july-17th-1555-utczulu.html?showComment=1405617863809#c2553948632232795209

    Yonatan said…
    If it was MH17 that was shot down over Torez, it was 200 km north of its published route. It doesn’t fly over the eastern land border between Ukraine and Russia. it crosses the crosses the Ukrainian coast at Berdyansk to fly over the Sea of Azov towards Primorsko-Akhtarsk.

    What time was it allegedly shot down? How come it disappeared from trackers in west Ukraine and and appears to have traveled about 1000 km into eastern Ukraine some 200 km off route without being challenged by Ukrainian authorities?

    Hmmm very odd, in the time taken to send my earlier message and to compose this update, FlightAware’s data has been updated to show the aircraft in East Ukraine. Fortunately I have earlier screenshots of both before and after FlightAware data.

    A new data entry for 2 19 puts it at 48.1N 38.5E roughly around Donestk / Torez. There is no data for the intervening hour. Why was it so far off route? What was the reason for the lack of tracking data? All the earlier MH17 flights I have checked route even further south.

    Something’s fishier than a barrel full of rotting fish.

    • If you scroll down from that comment at vineyardsaker, there’s another which gives links for the flight plan of MAS17 for today and yesterday.

      Quote
      “Todays flight path has MAS17 flying much further North directly over the war zone.
      Since Kiev knows that the miltia has a BUK system, common sense should have told the air traffic controllers to keep all civilian traffic well away.”

    • And yet another comment there
      Quote
      Check it out – no WAY should a commercial flight have been in this area

      “DONETSK, July 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Civil flights in the air space of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions cannot be performed as the relevant communications infrastructure was destroyed there, a source from the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) told ITAR-TASS on Thursday.

      “Kiev operates all air traffic control services and it is unclear how this plane (the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 that crashed in eastern Ukraine near the Russian border Thursday night. — ITAR-TASS) could appear in the area,” he said.

      “During the combat actions in Donetsk’s airport the communication tower, a part of the united air control service was blown up,” he said adding that “planes cannot fly there.”

      On July 8, Ukraine’s State Aviation Service banned all flights over the Donetsk and Luhansk regions aiming to provide “adequate safety and security for all flights of civil aircraft in favor of state aviation.

      Meanwhile, Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council took a decision to close the airspace over the area of the so-called anti-terror operation to commercial flights three days ago, Rosaviatsia (Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency) reported.”

    • Might be fog of war for Gaza and/or attempt to drag NATO forces to Ukraine, but the plane was really there… either shot or bombed.. Shanksville 0 Donetsk 1

    • Another vineyardsaker commentator

      “Got a recording of the interview with eyewitness, which describes the details of the death of Malaysian “Boeing”.

      http //cassad.net/category/war/211-podrobnosti-gibeli-malaziyskogo-boinga.html record the link

      The main one.

      1. A total of 3 explosion.
      2. From the lost plane jumped 2 people with parachutes.
      3. Was registered the Ukrainian airplane going in the direction of Debaltsevo.”

  45. The Ukraine government is a rogue element run by and manned by thugs with powerful equipment from Russia and probably the west. It makes more sense to believe a neanderthal behind a piece of equipment he did not understand was incapable of determining what he was aiming at. The equipment was smarter the the operator.

  46. No doubt this is also tied in with Israel’s ground invasion of Gaza. Gordon is right, the fact that the media magically KNOWS all this information moments after the “incident” speaks volumes…….. leading an intelligent 4 year old to conclude THE MEDIA is in on it.

    Who runs the media? You just found the perps.

    I wonder if they got the press release last night to avoid any screw-ups, like on 9/11 when they broadcast Building 7’s collapse before it actually happened……….

    Blaming Russia seems pretty obvious, too, since Putin has publicly stated he will defend Palestine. A pre-emptive flanking maneuver? I’ll bet the Israelites will be calling for military action against Russia before sunset……….

  47. Hmm – certainly begs the question as the flight originated at Israeli controlled Amsterdam airport. Was the previously outed twin 370 plane substituted for the one scheduled to fly to Kuala Lumpar – minus the crew/passengers ala 9/11 – remote controlled/detonated? Purposely done as a message to Putin whose own flight passed thru the area only moments before?

    quote
    “I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16 21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft – 15 44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

    And sure, perfect distraction away from the Gaza genocide. Can Israel do anything other than false flags and mass killing – all wrapped in scurrilous lies and deceit? They are so wretchedly, pathetically evil I’m almost beginning to feel sorry for them. Are they not creatures cursed w/ souls of the damned – if indeed they have souls at all? Can’t help but feel that they will meet their doom in the foreseeable future.

    • “If the plane was shot down travelling at 33,000 feet as reported, I have seen photos today from the scene of bodies, luggage, trays, airplane parts, etc.[…]”

      If true, original plane was targeted rather than ‘bogey’. You still have to wonder about that twin plane – what evil plan was concocted for it?

  48. Yeah, Putin’s “airforce one” just passed on the same route and hight a few minutes early; who knows…

    More plausible; deflect attention from the Gaza ground invasion + there is probably someone on board they needed to be get rid off in a “Big Lie” setting (“You don’t believe they killed the other 294 just to get to this one, do ya…”)

    • Images show a tight debris field, at first sight not an explosion. Re Putin´s flight rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/ Interfax reported this earlier “I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16 21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft – 15 44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

      “The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical”, the source added.” Later statement says that they haven#t used Uki Airspace for Putin´s flight for “quit some time”

    • Beg to differ. Debris is spread across two villages, Slavtarsk and Grabovo, extent of debris field 10 kilometres (6 miles), according to local dissidents.
      On my disinfo channel there’s a suspicious translated conversation between rebels where they say some outfit did it, but this was issued by the Zio-NATO networks far too early, and even if it’s genuine, it’s wrong – by Kiev Nazis’ own admission, the rebels can’t shoot that high.
      So, it’s Russians, or Kiev, who have TWENTY-SEVEN Buk systems moved in in recent days…

    • Just thinking loud

      If a BUK went for “ru air force one” and got jammed, it could (re-)aim at most likely target=the other plane, but there is possibly a to big gap between the planes.

      More interesting The published *fake* communication intercepts shows that this was planned and premeditated by Kiev/etc. There would not have been enough time to fake them and get clearance in the short span from crash to publication, and they can’t be genuine for a number of reasons
      = this is a premeditated crime, not a cover-up of an accident.

    • In case anyone missed it
      it appears as if the now removed “faked smoking gun” on youtube was uploaded by Kiev junta long BEFORE the plane crashed…

  49. It could be another blood sacrifice to the Illuminati gods
    Flight 17 on the 17th day of the 7th month on a 777

    • Furthermore, it’s not Flight 17
      Look at Jim Stone’s website.
      He says “Heads up Flightradar.com says MH17 was canceled and never took off. Hmmm . . . . . Good cover for flight 370? Not enough substance to make a call on that one, but this is something to make note of at least. The site is down now, possibly overwhelmed? ”

      Maybe this is the disposal of Flight 370?
      But have the original passengers been taken to join the 9/11 passengers whom I’ve heard are still in K.I.R.A.?

    • By the way, the Mossad is very involved with numbers for false flags, London 7/7 bombing, they did the Madrid bombing exactly 911 days after they did the evil 911 event.

    • Snippet from Jim Stone
      “Interesting tidbit – Planes first flight was on July 17 1997 and was shot down on the anniversary of TWA flight 800 . . .”

  50. If the plane was shot down travelling at 33,000 feet as reported, I have seen photos today from the scene of bodies, luggage, trays, airplane parts, etc. – where was this type of evidence at the “crash sites” on 9/11? Goes a long way to prove that 9/11 was nothing that the official sources say it was…

  51. Perhaps that plane had no passengers at all and was intended for other purpose…such as loaded with something to attack kiev with…def false flag. It just so happened to be another Malaysian plane just like the one they took just for this purpose. It was obvious to whoever shot it down. They rarely find bodies in crashes from that alt…poss completely staged and none died

  52. God Dammit, this is just the sort of stuff I hoped (fool that I am) that we would not see
    as we compare the relative merits,
    Well, yet again my wishes did not come true this time. (oh well)

    John

    • It is really cute the names some people choose,
      Mileage varies, I knew a long (20 years) ago that what I was doing would attract notice.
      As well it should.
      So far that has worked out very good for me.
      So, all you cute guys with clever names,
      make the ‘bad guys’ really nervous,
      quit with the cute (cowardly) shit and publish under your own names!
      (I dare you!!)

      John

    • “” quit with the cute (cowardly) shit and publish under your own names! . . . (I dare you!!)””

      We will stop using fake names when Mossad stops doing falseflag atrocities .

      Your kind of naivete and gullability or provocation for a sucker punch is what helped get the nonjew goyim into trouble from the beginning several thousand years ago .

    • BTW
      Do you really think an online alias will keep you from harm if someone had in mind?
      All the ‘bad guys’ know where I am already, and I am not afraid of you.

      John

    • What, ’cause I am not sneaking around?
      Sorry to disappoint you.
      I never hid from my own shadow, and ‘they’ have the coordinates (from a while back.
      I do not have in mind to get anyone in trouble.
      Use any name you want, I think I will be fred today maybe.
      Best to All.

      John

  53. you obviously missed his ‘crash and burn’ over his nanothermite manufacturer…but then you have always been a bit of an idiot.
    you are an internet toad an no more. no one reads you, you have no sources of information and no “seat at the table.”
    at least you are still alive, though a useless time waster as is bollyn

    • Kids say the darnedest things.
      It All goes on the logs, have fun.
      I do not mean a threat, it is just the truth,
      It all goes on the logs.
      You all have fun now, I will enjoy your colloquy,
      If we wanted it to be a secret, I guess we are kinda dumb.
      I am reminded of that caution my computer once issued
      “if you put it on the internet someone might see it.
      I have learned to live with that eventuality.
      You have no idea (nor should you)
      The number of cold sweats, it turns out you are OK.
      And so i am OK (and I thank the pesky lot of you)
      Now to get it to ‘be OK’
      Which will involve shutting down several bad actors in an orderly fashion.
      And then (if it works) we can sing and play music and all the stuff I dreamed.
      and maybe you did too. those are very constructive dreams,
      we need to show intent and make them come real.
      The ‘bad guys’ are not in control (and that really bugs them)
      Remember That!

      John

      John

    • My prayers are with those families.
      Way too much sadness of late,
      the bad guys want us to feel terrible,
      and so far it is working.

      John

      John

  54. Strange. I just logged into VT to post this this way, and the Facebook posts are back up. I am not sure if they are only available to VT Users. I wanted to have my comment visible so people can work on verifying this. “I found this tweet that was pretty interesting “Malaysian passenger flight crash. ATC at Kiev airport says Kiev did this” https //twitter.com/Novorossiyan/statuses/489824816258904064 The original profile it comes from this profile. https //twitter.com/spainbuca I was wondering if he is the Air Traffic Controller or who was and reported it. Perhaps someone else reads Spanish better than I do?” Also from what I read, Putin’s plane flew over the same area shortly before. http //rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/ Update on Carlos @SpainBuca on Twitter “The fighters flew about the 777, until 3 minutes before disappearing from the radar, only 3 minutes”

    • I suspect Duff and Dean have forgotten more than we ever knew,
      I can bring my own little offering, and I do. about a lot of things.

      John

    • Also have to agree with you, jimreeves. They are on point and not forcing the reader in a biased slant, open to information with determination to get to the bottom of things. They should advise Obama because no one else seems willing to as he is having to find out about incidents from Putin and Merkel,

    • And I in turn understand if some of you do not want to post under your names,
      I had to get my frustrations out, please forgive me.
      A lot of us should just fess up and be who we are.
      There are a few who must not do that (I understand, I hope you do too)
      In my case I have little to distinguish myself,
      and if I will not tell you my name
      (John M Reeves, Lakewood Colorado KD0THX why would you listen?
      So much for hiding.
      I never did, the stuff we never thought we would oh never mind.
      My Best to All.

      John

      John

    • @jmreeves – lower post
      Red-pill, red-list, red-blooded American and proud. Hi neighbor! DAVID GORDON – Golden, Colorado. The NSA knows who, where and how we are. The minions are hoping to God that the patriots succeed as they know that unlike their bosses, we won’t stab them in the back. There will be amnesty for these unwilling miscreants. The Free State Agenda frees everyone. WHOA! Link to it is gone from BIN! I’ll take that as a compliment. Damn the torpedoes…

    • Hi neighbor, and Thanks.
      Some fun you bet.
      Now to go on survey and see what I missed (ouch).

      John

    • They are back up and I doubt it was Gordon doing that. I did find out an update on @spainbuca He is an air traffic controller in Kiev. They have now closed the airspace “Closes airspace, fearing more demolition” translated from Spanish.

    • Raven,

      be very careful about some heavy twittering spanish guy, pretending to work as a traffic controller in Kiev.

      This guy has been busy on Twitter for quite a long time now, recently disappeared and supposedly again on the air now.

      Some serious questions from me about this guy might be
      1. As a traffic controller, why doesn’t he twitter in english (may be beside writing spanish)
      and of course in russian or ukrainian?
      2. Could it be, he’s handled from Romania and has nothing to do with flight controlat all?
      3. If 2. should turn out to be true, could it be that he’s also directed by “we all know who”?

  55. Here we go again with the babbling talkies on the news shows sitting bumbling through the script. Soft, impassioned voices being ever so careful as to what is said and how. Strategically placed pauses, and showing pictures that are “just in,” that have been carefully selected. This is phase one of the multi-phase journey leading to “the need for American troops to be sent somewhere in the region.” This is going to be interesting to see where this goes in future broadcasts. You all are right though, there is a pattern to how they say things in these type situations. Think this is once again our CIA at work?

  56. I heard part of an interview on cbc radio. The interviewee seemed to be someone knowledgeable. He speculated that it was a BUK type missile that is found on tanks, and are used to protect ground troops on the move from air attacks. He stated that regardless of origin – Kiev, Moscow, or “rebel” – these type of missile do not require any order to be given for use, other than the discretion of the user.

    Great way to create plausible deniability.

  57. I have read the articles by Yoichi Shimatsu on rense.com, and listened to his interviews. oddly, no mention of him on this site, so maybe I am being fooled, but…the man has a theory that the MH370 was an Israeli deal, to get control of the new nano chip or whatever. he thinks the CIA was out-maneuvered on the deal, but the plane landed for a while at Garcia Diego. his reasoning is a large step above “the barrister’s.”
    It’s easy to jump to the obvious conclusion that Israel was involved, but, there it is again.

    joe

  58. Yoohoo typo !
    “As to the pilot or reason”
    I think you meant “As to the plot or reason”

  59. Well, it’s unlikely a bomb on the plane caused it to explode, but according to reports the plane left the Schiphol airport in Amsterdam, the airport controlled by Israel, the airport Israel used to put the Underwear bomber on the plane. Perhaps the odds are one in a hundred, but it might be helpful to investigate the possibility of shenanigans at the Schiphol airport.

    “El Al has its own security force at Schiphol,” Heijboer told AFP. “But
    they don’t work for El Al ¬they are all from Shin Bet (Israeli secret
    service) and are paid by the Israeli embassy. The Israelis run the
    airport like a little Haifa.”

    Dutch Attorney General Vrakking testified on Jan. 29, 1999, that the
    El Al security detachment at Schiphol was a branch of Mossad.
    “Schiphol has become a hub for secret weapons transfers,” charged
    Henk van der Belt, an investigator working with the Bijlmer survivors.
    “Dutch authorities have no jurisdiction over Israeli activities at the
    airport.”

    • I don’t know much about airplanes, but if they find strong, believable evidence the airplane was shot down with a missile, I would like to know if the Israelis could have placed something or done something to the airplane while it at the Israeli controlled Schiphol airport to make the plane provide false identification or something suspicious while flying over Ukraine.

    • Nice work as usual, Brian.

      It’s a statistical certainty that whenever the word “terrorism” is heard, the word “Israel” is never far behind.

    • To quote the BBC lie factory whores “Russia accused”. The quisling BBC labour the Schiphol connection and also in there repetitive dialog attempt to legitimize the I say terrorist regime in the Ukraine who blame “separatist rebels” ( see US military dictionary definition terrorism) At this early stage the BBC seemingly assert that the plane was shot down by a ” Buk surface-to-air missile system”. How are they so sure so soon ? Advance warning ? another script ?

      The BBC seem to have an inside track on terrorist atrocities and indeed forewarning consider 7/7 and the predictive Peter Power (traitor) special aired he night before and also of course the big one the BBC coverage of WTC7 reporting the building had fallen even as at was viewed intact and live as the backdrop for BBC reporter Jane Stanley’s “live” report from the crimescene.

    • The BBC also emphasize and repeat the number of US citizens that died … might this be an attempt to paint the opposition in Ukraine as “terrorists” and rope in the US military / NATO ?

    • adeUK,

      as I understand it from all I learned listening the UKcolumn, I would suggest that the BBC and it’s private international company are direct fronts of MI5/MI6. This would explain easily how they again and again have such profound foreknowledge. This would also explain the fact that they have also been a huge hub of peadophilia in England.

      The open part, which I only can guess about is that this public/private media giant BBC may also be a huge playground for other secret services like Mossad, BND, …

  60. Couldn’t it be as simple as this The western world will blame Russia and the “rebels” for causing this. While every Russian and the Alex-Jones-fraction -America-is-the-evil -believers, will tend to think it is obvious that the US are behind it, as it can’t be coincidence, so it was Lockerbie II. Obviously, and not really necessary to say, the only real religious extremists, lunatic we-want-WWIII-cause-our-god-told-us-so Jahwe/Enlil-believers did it.

  61. Might this be the same 777 that Chris Bollyn discovered in a hangar in Israel? My first hunch is probably

  62. BTW, the four Gazan kids were murdered by the Israeli navy yesterday and today, the IDF murdered three more kids, so no, Israel wouldn’t pull off a False Flag using jetliners to take the heat off their Gazan war crimes, would they?

  63. What was a passenger jet doing flying over a hotly contested ground war that had already seen the use of surface to air and air to air missiles?

    Will they check the plane’s ID numbers, in various locations to verify it isn’t the missing Malaysian Air Flight 370 or will we be told to ‘Shut up, you don’t know what you’re talking about and it’s time to man up and go to war with the Russkies?’

    • Hey guys!
      They were wanting to shoot down Putin’s plane but hit the wrong target
      rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

      I think this is a more plausible reason
      Talk about myopia! Someone go buy some glasses for those blind Israelis

    • The plane was 17 minutes late taking off. Putin’s plane was 2 minutes apart from that location.

      Why 2 Malaysian planes? ICC War Crimes.
      Why over Ukraine? See TimesofIsrael article on Jew’s admit they are Khazar’s and plan for reverse migration into Ukraine.

      Since all economies under the US Dollar are held hostage to the IMF, FED and all other Jewish controlled banking as well as all data from NSA is shared with Israel… You can bet that Zionist Israel wants WWIII and that will quench the blood thirst in where 100’s of millions die and their countries will spend spend spend in defense. Only block is Putin.

      So I say this was an attempt to take out Putin’s plane that from a distance would look just like the other plane. Done by the Neo-Nazi’s of the Ukraine.

    • I wonder if Putin pulled a “bait and switch” and took a different airplane this time, knowing what they were planning? Gawd, wouldn’t that be funny……..

    • None of this is all that funny as you well know..
      The difference I see is we can observe and compare notes,
      and that will keep the bad guys up late at night.
      I know about that, if I get 2 hours and some REM we did something.
      There is no substitute for good sleep (and oh to be held)
      But only one who does this work would even have a clue.
      Solitude is preferable to trivial company,
      and hope springs eternal as to companionship.
      Lately insomnia is the norm (and a pain it is).

      John

    • Just looked out the back,
      haze and the usual sky (chemtrails)
      A report form Lakewood Colorado.

      John

    • Dave I think with that delay that Putin’s plane would have crossed that same sector but before. Film is being shown of someone recording that flight. WHY? Why was that certain plane being filmed?

      I will stand by my thought that with the TIMESOFISRAEL’S piece that was 2 weeks ago about the Jew’s being Khazar’s and a reverse migration to the Ukraine and the Nuland’s of the World as well as the Billionaire Jewish Oligarchs and the Jewish ran IMF, FED and the only thing stopping their ‘Wet Dream’ is Putin, China and BRICS. But Putin is the KING on the Chess Board and they are doing EVERYTHING and ANYTHING to destroy Russia.

      Russia today is everything the US used to be. One that looks to International laws, Christianity and striving for a real democracy. The US? (Insert TADA Wav file here). Most of my own friends are now saying they wish it were the 70’s again.

    • In a game of “Divide And Rule” the picture you described would fit into scheme perfectly, wouldn’t it?

    • The US is not quite like Russia..
      Russia remains an officially planned economy (something I despise)
      And Mr Putin is the ‘only adult in the room’
      That does not exactly trip my trigger. (I am here too, and I am an adult, am I special yet?
      I like Putin from what I see,
      but I will no sooner sign on to his nightmare,
      as I would the ones closer to home.
      With due regard to Mr. Putin the answer is e none of the above.
      We must rise above the old standard pissing contest.
      It does not matter how good you were,
      That Game has been Called,

      John

    • If we assume that the world is controlled by one unified body of organization today, wouldn’t that make sense for a lot of happenings in the world today?

    • Well that is what ‘they’ are trying.
      But there are few problems.
      They are rent seeking crooks who view humanity as a prey article.
      Meanwhile we do not need homogenized,
      We are equal in the eyes of our creator,
      Other than that we are in no way equal.
      Some of us chose to educate ourselves (and some fools tried to edumacate the rest (I’ll fess
      Others are breeding themselves to extinction (some tribes think they can outbreed each other.
      These will be met with disease, famine, and ethno -specific bioweopons.
      That is what you get for trying to out breed us.
      This is not the 7th century, you can leave real quick.
      It has not been rolled out, but if you keep it up you will regret it.

      John

    • I was just on YouTube listening to MSM… My what SHORT MEMORIES they have.
      Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai that was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes on 3 July 1988. The attack took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran’s territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight’s usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from the Vincennes.

      [[ All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died. ]] This attack ranks tenth among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Persian Gulf and the highest death toll of any incident involving an Airbus aircraft anywhere in the world.

    • This is looking increasingly ugly (even as I was going to wait for tomorrow
      I will look, and I have not yet, but I could not help but to get the gist.
      It has been a strange day here (and I did not get enough sleep.
      As to send you a pillow, I need one too.
      I have a comfy bed and invisible friends who send love,
      not the same as held, but nevermind.
      Really strange day, I will have to look.
      This is not a dismissal, I can’t fix it right now anyway,
      The sad story assembles (basically no survivors)
      Now I will cry again tonight.
      It does not hurt,, you can still be a real man.
      Sometimes crying it out is the only thing that will help.
      So far I am in cold cynical office mode
      I cry later off line.
      Some idiots think boys don’t cry.
      I do.

      John

      John

    • The Leader of the Opposition in Australian Parliament today said they would support the government in any decisions made, after carefully considering all options.

      Just as they were saying months ago, re Crimea/Ukraine, they repeated that option of sanctions against Russia and making Mr Putin persona non grata at the G20 later this year in Queensland Australia.

      Making reality ‘fit’ the script written for The Plan?

      It is no co-incidence that two Malaysian 777 planes ex Amsterdam have ‘met their demise’.

      My heart aches for the loss, grief and trauma suffered by so many of our brothers and sisters around the globe.

    • and yes Lonegunman, your hypothesis makes sense

      to me it seems like BRICS vs the old, so-called ‘west’ with the Masters of the UNiverse the final arbiters of NWO.

      Excruciating thoughts.

    • One can only imagine the despair in the FED, IMF and World Banks.

      So many economies HING on the US Dollar that is about to collapse and with it so will their economies. So since the Korean war the US has killed over 30,000,000 people propping up that dollar I am sure a few Million more won’t bother them as none is ever charged with War Crimes.

    • When I think of how Australia was ‘settled’ by the ‘criminal class’ of Great Britain
      when I listen to lawyers explaining how many years it would take to change legislation from Australia as a common-wealth country to independent republic
      when I listen to the discussions re ‘including’ aboriginals in the Constitution

      When I look at what has always gone down in AUstralia

      I think Australia was always a part of The Plan.

      Researching and reading/communicating with like-minded students of Life
      We now KNOW.

      And we are all weeping

      Blessed are those who mourn
      For they shall be Comforted.

    • Don’t tell me, after they pondered it, they arrived at the conclusion they always wanted
      (almost like the ‘debate;’ did no good (we catch on quick)
      I am glad to know you are around, you made my day.
      On the other stuff I am not going to attempt to cover it.
      I will get up tomorrow with a lot to catch up.
      I can’t fix what I think I just saw (not tonight anyway)
      My Love to You.
      This is getting pretty disgusting, I need to sleep.

      John

    • “” They are rent seeking crooks who view humanity as a prey article.””

      Another superb observation . That is precisely what us goyim are dealing with — Synagogue of Satan predators . The advent of Islam ( almost 1400 years ago ) was a in-this-life response to jewish predation whereas Christianity was an after-this-life response . Both Islam and Judaism are verifiably predatory religions where Muslims clearly aim to dominate according to the holy word of Allah in the Quran . Normally , only a predator can defeat another predator . The rare occasions where prey animals defeat a predator are not the norm and not relevant to this discourse . Christianity is nonpredatory and as such is inherently servile to both Judaism and Islam . Christian USA since at least W W 2 has had difficulty conjuring the will to outright defeat its military opponents even though it has the most powerful military . Other Christian nations would normally be similar . That is why Obama said we are ” not a Christian country “. He knows the zionist jews control the USA ( he is their unruly puppet ) and muslims are gaining , as they must by their divine imperative to dominate ,on that jewish control . Only predators can dominate other predators and Christianity is nonpredatory – even survile .

    • one more note —

      The chances of staying out of the fight and watching the two predatory species — jews and muslims — completely annihilate each other are virtually nonexistent . The sheeple who plan on doing that are only fooling themselves about reality . There will always be remaining predators after the particular conflict is over unless all life on earth is extinguished – not likely . Ergo , whoever wins the war will dominate all others until a successful challenge can be inititated – which may be 1000 years or more ( if ever ) .

    • sorry money talks to be pedantic but that last word survile sb servile

      Much is made of the Servant Heart in Christianity.

      Most critics and judges liken it (meaning meekness) to something like suicide.

      But I say the true servant heart is strong as a lion
      it takes real courage (from coeur fr for Heart)

      Courage and Humility.
      A rare combination in these narcissistic/deadly times.

      Has it ever been any other way?
      Just as You say
      -predators seeking to dominate other predators.

      God is with us.

    • “” Much is made of the Servant Heart in Christianity.””

      Christ said ” The truth shall make you free .”

      Freedom from domination or enslavement is very popular . Once you realize that Christianity tends to be servile to both Judaism and Islam , then that truth and some others will help get you free from permanent bondage . Did the jews invent slavery ?

    • Don’t forget that fake crash of the 777 in California in July 2013
      It crashed on July 6th but since it flew from China via Korea, that would have happened on July 7th in the far East
      That crew names released mocked our intelligence
      Captain Sum Ting Wong
      Wi To Lo
      Ho Lee Fuk
      Bang Ding Ow

      Crash debunked on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynxv6WddUGI

      They absolutely love messing around with these 777s

    • is this for real CoJonesGrandes?
      That is what I learned in the military family as ‘gallows humour.”

      Laughter and tears all in ONE.

      Will now go to the youtube link You provide

    • you forgot the cabin boy, Wan Long Dong!

      as one of my Mexican friends used to say, “I am choking you.” joking, joking.

      joe

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