MH17 Working Group Established

155
1352
Slaughter

 

So Far, the Winner is ICTS and Schipol Airport, “Crotch Bomber” Redux

 

… by  Gordon Duff   and  Jim Dean,  VT Editors

with a cast of about a dozen

 

[ Note:   Ukrainian Prosecutor-General Vitaly Yarema told Ukrainian Pravda newspaper on Friday, “Militias in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics do not have Ukrainian air defense missile systems Buk and S-300 at their disposal”…”After the passenger airliner was downed, the military reported to the president that terrorists do not have our air defense missile systems Buk and S-300,” the general prosecutor said. “These weapons were not seized.”

“The Russians did it” story has crashed and burned. The the media overkill…”killed it”, all of them playing off the same talking points notes, no one even bothering to ask the most basic investigative journalist questions like “Show me the evidence you have.”

Who do you know, what country, that has a track record of pulling that kind of media and sock puppet politician coordination off whenever they want to, having them all singing like they are in a choir? ]

 

Slaughter
Slaughter

We have found one engine damaged.  It initially looked like an air to air missile hit it.  We see signs of fire but there is a question as to whether damage is consistent with a shape charge from an air to air missile.  Input from qualified folks welcomed as always.

The BUK is off the table.  We have reviewed it extensively and an S300 is capable but not a BUK.  It “says” it will do it but experts have ruled otherwise.  We have tons of supporting material already.

Additionally, were a ground launched missile used, we would have had sat photos already.  If we get them later, it will mean they have been cooked.

 

From Rense.com, sent in by Jeff Rense:

[youtube MaeSwhen4mQ&list=UUKqFo29EDYngB8QcWEJ3Smg]

This plane is intact.  Ours would have fallen in pieces based on wreckage.

Human intel on the ground has given us much.  We are taking our time and want more.  The YouTube is very telling, engine on fire.  However, the wreckage indicates bomb thus far.   We, however, aren’t interested in guessing ourselves to death. We leave that to the slime media.

We have issues involving one Israeli jet from Azerbaijan.  We have issues about ICTS in Schipol.  We have issues about air traffic controllers in Kiev.  We have issues about SU 27s trailing the plane.  We have issues about “foreign” advisors in Kiev with the military who moved on the airport tower.

We are also looking for an AWAC in the area.  The bomb or whatever would have needed an AWAC or an F15 with advanced radar to time the crash.

Thus far the Putin assassination story that RT ran seems “off.”  We can do nothing with it so we won’t deal with it now.


What can’t be ignored is the manipulated media and the politicians who are making asses of themselves.  They are pointing a gun right at Israel.  The smell is overwhelming.  Next, someone will ask how many Jews were onboard.  As the plane was leaving the Netherlands for a medical conference, I would think the number to be substantial, 20 or more.  Is this a fair way to look at this?  Perhaps that should be discussed as well.

And who would destroy two fully packed airliners of a country they were angry with, to make an example? Is this enough to go on?  In reality, it is more powerful, following a cover up, than any other evidence.  Everything else can be faked.  The “stupidity” is for real. Yes, they are that stupid.

The dead want vengeance - and we aim to please
The dead want vengeance – and we aim to please

_______________________________

155 COMMENTS

  1. Jim Stone says MH17 and MH370 are not identical. MH17 has an extra window but the photo of the Ukrainian crash plane doesn’t have this

    • Jim Stone is using my data before I discovered both planes had the same window config. See my post on VT. Jim Stone is also wrong that MH-370 was a new plane. It was 12 years old. Jim Stone makes more mistakes than I do.

  2. MISSING EVIDENCE.

    There should have been a trail of smoke climbing up from any surface-to-air missile launch site to the target and there must be satellite images..

  3. Just reading that the Dutch will take the lead in the international investigation. Have taken possession of the black boxes and are sending them to London, UK for analysis. (Mistake #1.) @onderzoeksraad (see Twitter) is leading the investigation. These guys want truth and have the right attitude noone will BS them. I am not sure though if they know how FUBAR things can be. You guys may want to help them.

  4. Evidence shows that the plane that was shot down in Ukraine most likely did not depart from Amsterdam. Read the evidence in my article on VT – “Malaysia Missile Strike Was it MH-17 or MH-370?

    • How crazy is that.
      People in the Netherlands shot pictures of their family members going on that plane.
      That change to make it 370 too far fetched for me.

  5. Evidence shows the plane that was shot down in Ukraine most likely did not depart from Amsterdam. Read the evidence in my article on VT – “Malaysia Missile Strike Was it MH-17 or MH-370?

  6. Evidence shows the plane that was shot down did not depart from Amsterdam. Read my aricle on VT – “Malaysia Missile Strike Was it MH-17 or MH-370? “

  7. Not sure if I’m part of the “work group” but my posts revealing a switch in aircraft may be worth considering —
    Malaysia Missile Strike Was it MH-17 or MH-370?
    http //wp.me/p2FjTj-485

  8. Whistleblower U.S. Satellite Images Show Ukrainian Troops Shooting Down MH17
    8 hours ago 3 Comments 891 Views

    Source tells award winning reporter Washington lying about responsibility for tragedy
    Award winning former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry has been told by an intelligence source that the United States is in possession of satellite imagery which shows that Ukrainian troops were responsible for the shoot down of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17. see http //rinf.com/alt-news/war-terrorism/whistleblower-u-s-satellite-images-show-ukrainian-troops-shooting-mh17/

    • here is the actual article by Parry —maybe someone can track the actual Whisleblowers who say the US have pictures of Ukranian Soldiers in charge of the Missile System http //www.opednews.com/articles/1/What-Did-US-Spy-Satellites-by-Robert-Parry-Journalism_Putin_Russia_Satellites-140720-864.html

  9. Do you really believe this shit you are coming up with? Have ANY of you ever been around something like this or seen what a body looks like in this case? I HAVE.

    Comments like “a leg that has a cut but no bleeding…” being proof it was a dummy?? Are you freaking kidding me? If you knew anything at all you would know that depending on the traumatic event to the body, there may NOT BE any bleeding if the heart is stopped cold or the wound is cauterized. Ask any REAL doctor or first responder or better yet any Combat Veteran that has seen it themselves.

    Other comments like how the plane would have been in pieces coming down if hit by a missile… BULLSHIT. In some cases, planes explode depending on where the missile hits. But in many cases, a missile strike will hit engines and wings tearing them off or the rudder area and this does NOT cause the plane to explode, just enter out of control flight straight to the ground.

    Some Buk systems have day radar tracking system that is the same as Kub and OSA systems. Additionally they can be setup with a combined optical tracking system with a thermal camera and a laser range-finder for passive tracking of a target. Finally the Buk system was also designed to be used with OTHER tracking radars like the straight flush system so it was not necessary to have ANY other sub.

    None of you know shit about the facts of this.

  10. Video of shootdown on Forbes presented as “conclusive proof” has date July 14th, when AN-26 downed,. Anyone speak Russian? Is this story about rebels shooting 2 aircraft down with BUKs? (date at 0 39)

    http //www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/07/19/what-more-smoking-guns-are-needed-for-mh17-the-worlds-first-sam-terrorism/

    If the rebels had captured a BUK, would they drive it in the open, unescorted? Usually military hardware travels in columns. There is some sort of lead vehicle, it looks like an SUV – not the rest of BUK system. Other video and photos show BUK on truck, what happened to the truck?

  11. Daily Mail “Russian news announced shootdown 7 minutes before it happened”.

    http //www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696847/They-shouldnt-f-g-flying-There-war-going-Ukraine-intelligence-officials-release-phone-calls-claim-PROVES-Russia-shot-Flight-MH17.html

    Big claim; fact check? “News report was 1613 (Moscow time) and the plane went down at 1620”. If that was the time in Moscow, it would’ve been 1520 in Kiev/Donetsk. In fact, MH17 went down at GMT 1315 – which is 1715 in Moscow, 1615 Donetsk. Mail “the first phone call was made at 4 40pm local time” – this is GMT 1340.
    RIA tweet https //twitter.com/ria_novosti/status/489792676360097792

  12. As far as being a hoax, one of the passengers was a Family friend of ours. Stephan Anderson…. He was on that flight and is missing. They have not yet declared him dead. For this, I know it is not a hoax. Sorry.

  13. As other members might have already said, the plane in this video is not MH17. It was cloudy that day with rain just on the horizon. The video portrays clear skies. You decide.

  14. Those rebels in Donetsk aren’t even Russian. They speak the language, but that’s it. Since no Russians are in the Ukraine, much less the rebel held Donetsk region, there is no story here. They failed, brilliantly.

  15. Check out the post from Wayne Madsen… NATO BREEZE & TRIDENT exercises coincided with the Malyasia Air MH-17 takedown, plus more. http //libya360.wordpress.com/2014/07/20/mh-17-and-nato-excercise-breeze-2014/

  16. Meanwhile, Putin and Merkel have agreed that there has to be an objective international investigation of the incident, and that there must be peace talks in the southeast Ukraine. That should take some of the wind out of David Cameron’s ranting. July 19 article.
    en.ria.ru/politics/20140719/191038040/Putin-Merkel-Discuss-Investigation-of-M-17-Crash-in-Ukraine–.html

  17. To be constructive, try these sites for info and tentative analyses

    The Saker.

    OEN, especially articles by Paul Craig Roberts.

    RT of course.

    PressTV of course.

    I’ll leave you to Google, because I can’t leave that many links here, if any working ones.

    • BTW a BUK SAM system comprises five vehicle, i.e launcher, loader, radar, radio and command, and it need 15-17 highly trained personnel. So that rules out the newly formed defence forces, whether or not they captured the full system required.

    • We used to go to newsland and buy The New American (thanks JBS,
      or earlier it was penthouse or playboy (we only bought them for the articles, right.
      Word travels so much faster, we had 6 channels and nothing on,
      now we have 157 (and nothing on) but now we pay directly,
      and they still load it up with commercials.
      I will quit sniveling now.

      John

      John

    • Gerry,
      This isn’t just for you
      99.999% of “bloggers,” and that’s what Rivero and others are, simply rehash CNN or make things up.
      Only a handful of people get real material.
      Madsen, Rense, and all the rest are VT…which is more than several.

  18. Sky news out of U.K., has the same staged news reporting of the crash. You can see “planted” suitcases and perfectly good clothing all in one area, as the reporter picks up some keys and “of course” childrens items. On it goes with phoney background video. This entire matter reeks of the filth of the media propaganda push.
    There is no hope for any white nation today except for the truly educated people that know what is happening and who is doing the behind the scenes manipulation!
    Geez, it gets sicker, more disgusting and smelly every day. And, it doesn’t matter what new event is being covered. It is all biased, slanted and truly manipulated.
    There will be no more America in 25 years.

  19. Found one more interesting thing; as the proRussians say, who were the first to see the plane site crash, – there were no food on the plane at all! That must be very strange, since that flight lasts 8 hours! Maybe in connection to the bloodless bodies? Story is becoming more and more interesting!

  20. Wake up and get over your own sense of self importance.This comment negates this entire thread and nobody reacted to this fine catch.Shame on all of you let alone the VT staff.Always follow the evidence and even there beware.

    jjc1984
    July 20, 2014 – 12 39 pm
    Gordon Duff The plane on that video is not the MH17, but an AN-30 shot down. The original video is from LiveLeak.com and it was added in 6-6-2014. Greetings from Argentina.
    Original video http //www.liveleak.com/view?i=f80_1402065879

    • Yes, that was mentioned already, that this was the wrong video, as the skies were blue, among other things.

    • Get over the plane video stuff folks. So it is a view of what a burning shot down plane with a lot of people on it looks like….representative video, and we listed the source. The video is not ‘proof of’ anything as we all know the plane came down. And so what you have is something I have never seen…death in the skies in the Ukraine because someone does not prefer a negotiated settlement.

    • Yes what a load of crock and usual hubris from actual lack of intelligence, just the usual aggregating of info from elsewhere, without checking.

      That aircraft falling is not MH-17, as you say Lawrence.

      It is nonsense to dismiss a BUK SAM, because that system is fully capable and does NOT hit the target. It fires metal rods when close, so the target is not blown up, though badly disabled.

      RT did NOT run a story on Putin being the target. It was mentioned in passing and dismissed.

      Israeli jets? Disinfo? Red Herring? Diversion?

      This whole narrative is deeply flawed and obviously so for anyone who has paid a reasonable amount of attention. Talk about legends in their own lunch boxes lol.

    • BTW at 30,000 feet the fuselage would depressurize violently, causing substantial parts to fragment and contents – bodies, luggage, etc. – to be scattered over a wide area. All consistent with the crash scene and absence of burning/fire, except for where the main wreckage fell.

      Note The Junta had installed up to three BUK SAM systems near Donetsk and out of Donbas defence forces control area, so if the Junta ordered an attack, the forward momentum (500knots?) would have carried forward the wreckage to the defence force area as it fell at free fall in a parabolic arc.

    • Gerry, I am so sorry that you don’t like our work in progress. But all of your beefs are presented with a final report type fervor, which was clearly stated it was not. So you are just showing off, which is all part of the comment board thing. This thing will be going on for some time and there are going to be a lot of unhappy people all over the place. We are already used to that.

    • You just made my day, I had company, came back to look.
      Thank You Mr. Dean and company, what you do is of value.
      any more I would be gushing.
      Great Forum, so many interesting pesky smart frustrated people.
      I might be becoming a writer, I need to vent (constructively)
      This is a pretty recent thing, back in the day we would do some coke, drink a beer,
      and be up until 2am at least (and back at the post by 8 am (albeit a bit worn)
      30 years later I can’t do that anymore.
      Anyway my best, and Thanks.

      John

  21. Here is just another piece in the puzzle. Read this article from Wayne Madson about the well hidden NATO exercise “Breete 2014” which just ended after 10 days. It just happens to be right in time with the Malaysian flight crash.

    “www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/21/mh-17-beware-of-the-chameleon.html”

    It smells rotten and fishy more and more.

  22. ok. If you want to get the US public behind a war what is the best way. Create moral outrage. How do we do that. Blow up the twin towers and tell the public that your enemy of the month did it. Tell the public that Sadaam goes into hospital infirmaries in Kuwait, shuts off incubators and throws babies on the floor. Blow an airliner out of the sky, litter the ground with childrens’ toys. A highly paid talking head on the media will do the rest. All it takes is a false flag and a little propaganda to dupe the american public and have them demanding war with the Ruskies!

  23. Let’s decide which Youtube videos are correct. Was it a cloudy day or was the sky perfectly blue as depicted in the falling plane video. If you look at the wings of this falling airplane they appear to be perpendicular to the body of the plane. Hardly, does this seem to fit the Boeing 777 design of MH17.

    I highly suspect it to be dubious and a video of another plane from another time.

  24. Second time today, trespassers.
    I do not know why you bother, but knock yourselves out.
    Meanwhile it seems from here that the VT site is having a DOS attack.
    I guess they hear us.

    John

  25. Things fall in line more and more, the situation is getting tough. We all can smell it. The MSM propaganda actually goes in overdrive mode, in Europe it begins to sound really hysterical (especially Holland and UK). They know they’ve already lost their sheeple, which ain’t no sheeple any more. No one is goning to fight their wars aganst Russia any more, they know it and they can’t do it by their own.
    The banks are running dry, speculation and manipulation is already again on an alltime hight. Banksters and top managers/legislators from J.P. Morgan and other octopus corporations die weekly by murder. Brics nations turn their back on this corrupt and morbide dying western civilization and their totally disfunctional institutions, rotten governments, police and military. Of course, this had to be developed gradually and it worked quite well in the west to varying degree, until now.

    • But they didn’t think of the people, who they dispise so much with all their cold and rotten hearts. If you americans think your courts are corrupt, look at England, it may be even worse. Sexual deviance in high places is rampant, as is logically blackmail from the top down. All is covered up, but they cannot delete the smell which accumulates – and people will find their lists, sooner or later.
      The already rotten corpses of the “passengers” in the Ukraine tell just another morbide story and all the other strange circumstances around it. The smell of a dying west, dying from within will grow until people have enough and vomit. They may lie and lie, time is over – nobody with a brain believes it any more. The Gaza massakers will be another nail in the coffin, may be the last.

    • Nonone knows what follows. I’m no doomsday prophet, but I take Cheyneys warning very seriously, he obviously had orders to do this. The US cannot sustain such a military machine (official and may be even more serious, gone black). It must fall from within, no economy – without a continuum of wars – can sustain under such totally deranged conditions. The world of cource has had enough.
      That’s the main line the zionist neocons want to push through – at any cost. The catholics will be the toughest, many of the evangelicals are too much corrupted from within by their zioninst spinmasters.
      Obama recently showed what he really feels for the american muslims, they will not forget this disgraceful lession in real white house politics. Hopefully they will stay straight and perhaps some or even more of the jewish people might as well stand up against our real enemy – the enemy within.

  26. Two days in a row now, trespassers on our computer.
    Also our phone did a few pet tricks in the last few minutes.
    So.
    If you are taking the target you must be over the flak?
    This site has got real busy all of a sudden too.
    Probably termites or maybe red ants.
    Another Day at the Office,
    I guess they heard us.
    I know this is obsolete equipment from the dark ages and some Ethiopian would gladly melt it.
    Yeah, that’s it.

    John

  27. Interesting that someone photographed “Blackwater types” arriving in Ukraine as early as10 March. Who owns the Federal Reserve and Wall St. from which Hitler was funded ? The Dulles brothers, John Foster and Allen snuck NAZI general Reinhard Gehlen into the US, 1945, assigned him the duty of reviving OSS functions into a Central Intelligence Agency, which he did, signed into law 1947, violating the USConstitution, as congress had no control over the CIA or budget. Five or so years later, Gehlen returned to Germany, established the Bundes Nachrichten Dienst (BND) with assistance of NAZI funds, which also paid for the Christian Democratic Union, CDU. Gehlen also revived his 2,000 head spy network of WWII. The datadump by Snowden showed that the BND and NSA (CIA) have functioned as one operation in gathering telephone and internet data in the Western World. Shortly after Gorbachev “defected”^, it was leaked that Russia had not had plans to attack the US. The “cold war” was the creation of Gehlen´s spy network. The Gehlen network provided Russian spies with propaganda that the US was planning to attack Russia, and propaganda to American spies that Russia was preparing to attack Europe. Plotting Americans against Russians continued the arms race, profitting the few, major weapons manufacturers. ALSO. It distracted from the continued NAZI influence on the US, Europe and Russia. Who funded the NAZI ?

  28. Malaysia and Israel connects most recently with APCO Worldwide public relations/lobbyists’ firm and the concept of 1Malaysia and 1Israel. Anwar Ibrahim revealed information about APCO and was suspended from Parliament. APCO is a Zionist entity, according to William Leong Jee Keen, a member of Malaysian Parliament, “APCO’s operators in Tel Aviv have close links to the Zionist regime. Its CEO in Israel, Gad Ben-Ari, was a personal adviser of the late PM Yishak Rabin. APCO in Israel undertakes various communications and strategic development works for both corporate and governmental organisations. One of the members of APCO’s International Advisory Council is Doron Bergerbest-Eilon, who was a former security chief for the Israeli government.” For more information see his complete 2010 letter here. http //charleshector.blogspot.com/2010/04/what-is-umno-led-bns-position-on.html
    Could there be disagreements within the Malaysia government about potentially trying to remove APCO, that has inbred through the 1Malaysia campaign, and this be a show of force against those wanting to remove the Zionist handlers?

    • RavenKnight

      Thank you…Thank you…

      Your post has turned on the lights for me. The dots are joining.

      I was in Kuala Lumpur shortly after MH370 went missing. I was told by an informed Malaysian, that the incident was an internal Malaysian affair involving supporters of Anwar Ibrahim and the supporters of the Malaysian government. I accepted that and thought no more of it until I read your post.

      It is obvious now that Malaysian politics is being infiltrated by Israeli handlers, like so many other governments. The tactics of smear campaigns to remove opposition (sodomy charges against Ibrahim) bear all the hallmarks of Israeli modus operendi.

      It did not dawn on me that there might be a link to Israel in Malaysia. I now wonder about Indonesia?

      Thank you again

    • robert the go-to site around your question on Indonesia is Aangirfan.

      Once again, be prepared to be disturbed, re child sex issues.

    • http //aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/aids-researchers-killed-in-ukraine-air.html

      something went wrong with their site around March this year, but if you gargoyle Aangirfan, you will get the past years’ posts.

      Poignant and harrowing Real Life.

    • PS Someone at Aangirfan was a long-term teacher in Indonesia.

      Knows the place inside-out and is telling the world.

      That to me is very real courage.

  29. I feel the bitter cold of world war coming. While the ‘who’ behind the heinous M17 attack is yet unresolved, and even the basic elements of what actually happened still missing, for many of us, our suspicions mount that M17 has inexorably set into motion decisions, made by mental dwarves, the deranged and your usual government and military psychopaths, to set the world on fire. Being charitable here, it appears to me the President, like his Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, is way out of his depth and acting like a crazy man, glazed eyed, arms flailing uncontrollably, accusing Putin , without evidence or good sense, of every nasty thing under the sun. Including, if not by innuendo, downing M17. On top of all this, Israel has kick-started a regional apocalypse. I’m scared! The lunatics, save Putin, are running the show.

    • Maybe.
      They did not plan on us (even if they think they did.
      Put the word out and hope for the best.
      Look back at the jingo BS around ww 1 and 2.
      That is not selling these days.
      The ‘Greatest Generation’ presiding over the ‘End of the American Empire’.
      OH PALEEEEZE!
      So then it is all downhill from here, right?

      That is poison propaganda if ever there was.
      Don’t swallow.

      John

    • Oh the Prussians (a militaristic control freak mentality)
      That attached itself to edumacation.
      I am sure we were talking about something more important (grin)
      No, High time somebody mentioned the damn Prussians!
      Best to You (and if you have kids homeschool
      and no vaccination (poison by the murdering eugenicists.
      Bill Gates you better hope you never meet me on the street.
      I am a scrawny thing, but those move incredibly fast.
      What I would like to do to you is not fit for publication.

      John

    • Where exactly in Rome, Klaatu?

      Why yes. Yes I do know where. The Capo di tutti Capi operates out of Borgo Santo Spirito within Vatikan City. This is the true seat of world power. Believe it or not. Satan’s second in command.

  30. Gunning down the plane was organized by someone who wants to confront Germany with Russia again and again. Someone who wants other fight their war against Russia. It is so obvious. We all know who that was throughout history, especially in both world wars. London bridge is falling down my fair lady. Not to mention that noone wants to fly again with Malaysian airlines ever. Ukraine is being destroyed both internationally and domestically and the Russians aren’t more than 10 % responsible for it. I can’t stand the gestures coming from the US presidency suggesting that this is “wake up call for all the Europeans” – we had so many wake up calls throughout history and I’am assured that noone here in Europe will wage another major war just to please the soft gentlemen from the Thames and Potomac. Don’t try to bulls*t us with that after 9/11 propaganda. We are allies but not in war we are not. Because we don’t create enemies so easily. We can send you money if you ask, we will probably be the only ones out there to help USA once the crattle falls. But don’t think that we will buy your weapons for fighting your wars. You can kiss that thought goodbye. If that is not of your liking then you can of course engage a storm of false flags against Europeans, wipe out populations, but still noone will oversee your despicable agenda. It is well red.

    • If I am right these things (and there have been several of late)
      are best viewed as provocations.
      They do something absolutely awful and hope we will do something stupid.
      Two wrongs don’t make a right, less dead stuff the better.
      The stuff that should be dead is too often not what dies at the time.

      John

  31. Gordon is right, the most important evidence is the statistical stuff. The forensic stuff can nearly always be faked. Not to say that it’s not important, but it’s supports the suspect list, which is VERY short in this case.

    The most obvious questions are the important ones. Why shot down over Kiev? Why now? Who’s got something to hide and who is specializes in endless psy-ops and false-flag stunts?

    The obvious answer is the people who started the Kiev coup in the first place. All roads lead to Israel.

    • And so beware,
      If I read this right they are trying for the 6 million incinerated, and want suicide by cop.
      We must not avail them, they must die by their own hands,
      in front of God and everybody,
      Then the victim guilt trip is at an end and all will know God is not all that fond of them
      Master Race you say (that’s right, it was the Hebrews, not Hitler who first made the claim
      of being the ‘master race’ (and of course gods chosen.
      Chosen indeed, and wait til you see for what (total destruction, but they havwee to DIY.

      John

      And I will buy drinks for the house and we will have one Hell of a party.

      John

    • It is looking that way.
      We are faced with the same problem the Israelis are
      No one consults us, it is all marketing,
      and until we see them on a dark alley one night and give them the time of day..
      But!
      Here you might see 10 or fifteen percent naked jingo.
      In Israel the numbers are more like 70 percent.
      They have allowed themselves to be taken in by people who tell them they are special.
      Ironically you actually can get special like that, but you won’t like it.
      Another scenario (we have been wargaming this for 20 years
      What if they have a death wish, and would prefer to be in Hell with their like objects.
      We dreamed we sent them, and they thanked us.
      Still working on that one.The very name Israel is an invert.
      Like you could just declare yourself whatever,
      a better term would be Isn’t Real.

      John

      John

    • I mentioned a while back a creator is a given a priori,
      a tormentor is an optional feature.
      You gotta sort ’em somehow.
      Don’t fret over old Satan, it is Beelzebub you need to watch

      John

  32. if anyone wonders why it is Malaysia the victim here….

    http //fighthatred.com/recent-events/national-political-hate/1145-malaysia-is-in-the-forefront-of-countries-expressing-national-hatred-against-jews-and-israel

  33. Is it me… or… do the legs and feet of the unfortunate passenger (in pic) look strangely discolored… like it came from a morgue…after they have been “drained of blood?”

  34. Gordon, Are you aware of this analysis? What is your take on it?
    http //slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/breaking-part-ii-evidence-continues-to-emerge-mh17-is-a-false-flag-operation/

  35. Look at the bright side,
    Hospitals killed several times as many in this window (and no one noticed.
    We need to keep perspective, dead critters are a daily affair,
    and everyone is somebodies baby (just guessing)
    You can shoot me now or wait until you get home (Looney toons “Pronoun Trouble”)
    And before you get to ‘but this is war not hospitals’
    have a look around,
    The LD50 on war is much lower than on hospitals (particularly as things develop)

    John

  36. The video plane propeller driven …. Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 Timeline….11.40 pm > Igor Strelkov, the military commander of pro-Russia separatists, posted on social media shortly before MH17’s crash that rebel forces had brought down an Antonov An-26 in the same area.
    ***http //www.globalresearch.ca/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-timeline/5392162

  37. No Facebook comments for this story? Interesting,

    Putin and the Russians are taking a pounding on MSM. I am not normally a praying man, but now may be a good time for God (the collective consciousness, the One, not Yaldabaoth) to grant them extreme wisdom.

    Easiest way out for Putin, perhaps a for all of us, is to falsely admit responsibility, apologize, move on and hopefully be better prepared for the next Israeli false flag.

    Just hope he saves a few nukes for the bastards!

    • I am completely with You jglassel

      I am embarrassed by the flow of the clanging, empty-vassalled proverbials on the MSM
      and have faith in the reports that Russia and Mr Putin are devoted Orthodox Christians.

      Forgiveness and Mercy
      while true vengeance belongs to Our Lord.

    • Personally, I hope the Russians draw the line in the sand and put an end to this BS once and for all.

      I would just as soon bend over and kiss my ass goodbye now as opposed to what “they’ have in store for us.

      You can bet, by now Putin knows what happened, with all the numerical improbabilities, this has to be another ritual sacrifice!

    • How many people in Russia does Mr Putin represent?
      Who are their friends and allies?

      There are numerous karmic debts
      over which You and I have nil control.

      God is with us, who Believe.

    • From what I gather the Russkies like Mr. Putin (and I do too FWIW)
      You can’t please them all.
      Boy did he get the hairball from hell.
      I think he snuck in when they were not looking
      And Now an Honest Man has the throttle (and the apparatchiks can’t get it back..

      John

  38. I remembered this article

    “www.veteranstoday.com/2014/03/23/neo-flight-370-another-us-conspiracy”

    Cite

    “We know these things for certain

    * Those responsible are terrorists fully sanctioned by multiple governments with broad control over the international press
    * The willingness to do something this brazen is very real proof this isn’t the first time. It brings everything claimed to have occurred on 9/11/2001 not only in question but clearly establishes both capability and intent. If “they” did it now, they did it then and will do it again if “they” wish.
    * Recent plans for terrorist attacks against Ukrainian Air Force facilities, as outlined in emails intercepted and published by “Anonymous Ukraine” show identical intent and nearly identical capability.”

    The last point seems to be significant to me under the current circumstances.

    • “to do something brazen’
      I think it was Goebbels that said if you tell a Really Big Lie
      (and keep repeating it)
      the folks will mistake it for truth or history.
      Well, the folks are catching on, and we have a much better grade of Clowns,
      But the Big Lie thing, sadly looks as he was right (at least for a while)
      I have said to myself too many times to count
      ‘well this will wake them up’
      Little by Little it has,
      You can”t blame folks for being sweet and innocent.

      John

    • This article also dealt with flight 370

      “www.veteranstoday.com/2014/03/13/missing-777-or-flying-bomb”

      This was the first VT working group and in parts Gordon’s personal guess.

  39. It may have been mentioned here in a ref to a video the Kiev Interior Minister (?) within minutes of the crash made a statement or video asserting that the plane was shot down with a Buk system, knew the flight info, number of passengers, etc.. I believe he said they were all dead.

    seems like an incredible amount of information for one to have so soon after the accident.

    like several others, I question the “crash and by burn” video. not just the plane, but the video itself. seems to be CGI, or doctored.

    I recall that one GD speculated back in March that the MH370 might be used as a false flag, maybe in Ukraine. so, logic says that he is involved. (joking, joking!)

    joe

    • joe you are really great at the choke jokes.

      just joking.

      Over the past few months (since the disappearance of Malaysian Airlines 370-there but for the grace of God went my daughter, permanent resident in UK who in April 2014 honoured her Malaysian ticket -relatively empty plane-to return to Oz to see me and her other family members) I have read, and could probably find them, a multitude of comments on the internet which ‘sensed’ an immediate, impending false-flag.

  40. anxiously awaiting VT working group assessment of these links already mentioned in comments, if this is truth it is not easy to serve
    The truth may be too hard to serve, we are in the midst of a full New World Order rollout
    ***http //rt.com/news/165872-military-exercises-planes-disappearing/

    ****http //www.rense.com/general96/dutch.html

    • Oh No Not Again.I will fess to being a gadfly and a grazer,
      I never count beans I just cut the checks (life is too short)
      The bad guys have a thing about pleasing the demons.
      Good Morning, best to you all,
      is this all a fake or did they kill a bunch of people?

      John

    • I heard/read that it won’t be long now, before Malaysian Airlines is no longer.
      Australia has a similar story on Ansett Airlines

      but that is a story for another day
      altho

      it has been written.

      Sordid politics, as ever.

      And life goes on.

    • Whole lot of consolidatin goin on.
      And attempts to homogenize. (and to narrow options, shades of the Company Store folks)
      Mr. Putin mentioned a few days back that we are not all the same nor would that be of benefit.

      John

    • I could have become a judge, prosecuter or one of the best lawyers in the country…… but I didn’t have the Latin.

  41. Hong Kong’s Yoichi Shimatsu says GDuff early instinct right, MH17 downed by US-Nato fighter, but trying to destroy biowarfare genocide agents loaded by Israelis. Israel ICTS firm runs Amsterdam Schiphol airport (can serve int’l drug trade, drug cash to prop up banks), Holland Oct 1992 El Al plane takes off, seems nuke stuff on board, crashes Dutch immigrant apt towers; Dec 2009 Nigerian underwear bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, bad papers, erratic behaviour, pushed onto plane by Israelis; now MH17 with seems old corpses, maybe biowarfare agents & bomb loaded by Israelis, maybe F-15 tried to fireball MH17 to stop bio-attack, did not succeed. Shimatsu – http //www.rense.com/general96/dutch.html (insert colon for link)

    • Also, the EU nation of Slovakia brought accusations re recent Nato ‘games’ 5-10 June, in which European flights were disappearing from air traffic control radar screens in Europe, and there is speculation this is related to the altering of MH17’s flight path. European skies are run by Eurocontrol, No 96 Rue de la Fusée – Raketstraat (yes, that’s Rocket Street), 1130 Brussels, literally across the street from international Nato headquarters. – Article on RT about the flights disappearing from traffic control radar, which of course “did not pose any serious threat”, ha! – http //rt.com/news/165872-military-exercises-planes-disappearing/ (insert colon for link)

    • Is it possible to destroy biowarfare agents loaded in an aircraft by downing the aircraft?

  42. I have been following @spainbuca side of the story because I feel he was credible based on reviewing his Twitter profile when he was reportedly being an air traffic controller in Kiev and two military aircraft followed the MH17. He had many Spanish people he knew – he had followers in the thousands-which is more than set-up- that commented on his tweets and they seemed to know him.
    I found this video that talks about the reasoning behind the Ukrainian military aircraft being in the area from the perspective of a local “militia” member. http //youtu.be/aKKoKmUtQXE The Ukrainian military goal may have been to make this look it was shot down by rebels and/or that the Ukrainian military aircraft was going to bomb or did hit the city prior and the plane was targeted.

    • One of the comments for this video said this, “A passenger plane was flying by, and a Ukrainian fighter plane attempted to hide itself above the plane.(I suspect it was two as reported by @SpainBuca) The plane then lowered its altitude and dropped bombs on a residential area of (семеновка – Semenivka ) and then regained altitude and followed the passenger plane. In other words, the Ukrainian fighter plane wanted to provoke the rebels to shoot down the plane resulting in the deaths of peaceful civilian people and thus create a global catastrophe. They could then label the people here rebels and terrorists. This is not so, the people here are ordinary citizens that have come out of their homes to defend their town. ”

      The military fighters then potentially used Chaff for shielding as was reported here https //www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXQ_8_KUT3w&feature=youtu.be Could this have been done by the military?

    • H17 clearly may have been off course according to https //www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXQ_8_KUT3w&feature=youtu.be Could the military have encouraged the pilot of MH17 to avoid a particular area because of the conflict, and then put the plane in position for this maneuver? Or were the instruments tampered with and the pilot thought he was on the correct course? This seems odd and it seems odd that these fighters were reported by @SpainBuca and also then by the civilians on the ground, chaff was seen and then the area.

      I also found this video that was of an “eye witness.” I question it because of the car in the background, but I don’t speak the language and am curious what he is saying. Can anyone understand it? https //www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPcbFJSGk7E&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

      My theory is that there were two fighters in the area that were behind the plane. I suspect one of them shot it down. They used Chaff to hide it. Their motive was to conceal the plight of the citizens and blame them and Russia. This was also a convenient distraction to shield the start of the Gaza ground invasion. Then they went after the popular Kiev air traffic controller from Spain when he did more than report on his lunch choices and I am joking about the lunch choices, but his posts were mostly upbeat and not interested in anything such as this.

    • I saw a fellow on RT who was I think piloting drones.
      We think of that as so impersonal,
      No, dropping bombs from 20000 feet and going home for tea, that’s insulated.
      This guy told us he could see their faces.
      Now in some cases I would make an exception,
      This guy will carry this to his grave.
      Dirty Little Secret, drone flying is up close and personal
      (albeit from halfway around the world, bear with please.
      The stuff I learn by watching, who knew?

      John

    • Obviously, the military aircraft may have hit a target and then regained altitude. However, as of yet, I have not found any information on other airstrikes earlier that day.

  43. The first reported Israeli MH17 victim has a Gematria of 9/11, 9 for his age, 11 for his name.

  44. I know this might sound stupid, but we have been told on occasions that a Star War Weapon Systems exists, equally there are denials that such a system is up there in space. My point is if such a weapon system is operational could the plane have been attacked from outerspace and thats why there is so much confusion over the missile story. Just a thought.

  45. ——-The 298 people DIED, because the AIRLINES became the DECIDERS on the passengers’ LIVES.

    ——-If the passengers were INFORMED that there is even a “SMALL RISK” flying over a “WAR ZONE” maybe the majority of them would not have taken that FLIGHT to begin with.

    ——–Please don’t jump on President Putin, or anyone else for that matter, before a single investigation has been conducted.

    ——-“Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said, demonizing President Putin shows a lack of policy.” Recently, it seems what ever goes wrong, USA, UK & France, blame President Putin to get out of their blunder.

    • I have no idea how a ‘person’ could contemplate let alone..
      But I guess I am a wimp,
      I do not even like to pull weeds (I hate ruining their whole day.
      The ‘bad guys’ I can send with reckless abandon, does not bother me at all.
      They are the subhuman protoplasm they accuse the other 99 percent of being.
      But a bunch of folks you never met on a plane and you kill them?
      Can’t Relate.

      John

      John

  46. Just wondering why the U.S. announced tighter security measures to be introduced at foreign airports just recently. This was followed with reports the U.K. was about to introduce tighter airport measures.

    What prompted that? What knowledge did the U.S. have for Europe? Why just foreign airports? Was the timing of the announcement just another coincidence?

    http //www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2014/07/us-orders-tighter-foreign-airports-security-20147221393521897.html

    http //www.bing.com/search?q=2014+tighter+security+at+airports+u.k.&go=Submit&qs=bs&form=QBRE

    • U.K. Gardian link

      http //www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/03/airport-security-tightened-us-warning-bomb

  47. Some one else posted this “A really good indication it is a false flag, is when the media is pre-programmed with the ‘news’ of who did it… They tell you who the perps were, before the facts are know. ” /
    After more than a day of thinking clearly, I have this to say If Zionists in Israel are behind this, should Malaysia declare war on Israel? What then would be their next step? They already do not allow Israelis in their country. They already have had War crime trials. Can they, would they, then buy missiles and point them at Tel Aviv? I think not. They would (will?) try to rally an international coalition against Israeli aggressors. That is what Israel is bringing itself for this crazy false flag, if that is what it is. What do others think?

    • within hours of ‘the news’ of the crashing of this plane, Australian politicians were miaowling about Mr Putin being banned from the G20 in Qld later this year/sanctions on Russia.

      This becomes the ultimate test for humanity.

    • would putin care if he did not get an rsvp to genuflect to the bilderbergers at the australian bohemian grove event ? call me naive but there’s a relevant point on the following

      http //www.realjewnews.com/?p=950

    • The US is thirteen years LATE declaring war on Israel, for their 9/11 stunt. People are scared of the zionists, especially politicians who don’t DARE utter a single word of the truth.

      For a country like Malaysia to declare war on Israel is suicide, unless it’s guerrilla (undeclared) warfare.

  48. Much more likely that a bomb was planted on the Plane in Amsterdam by usual suspects1 and with the help of Usual suspects2 the plane was given a new fly path to cross with Putins plane .Everything else is just make believe . Payback for Malaysia war crimes tribunal .
    My electronic harassment continues . Magnets do work !

  49. Gordon,

    Please do yourself and this website a favor and remove the video of the falling plane. I watch daily the conflict in eastern Ukraine for the last 4 months and I can tell you it’s an An-26 military plane that was shot down in the area before the MH17. Do you want to send this website on the same path on which the retards from CNN or FOXNews are sliding ?
    Since you got this video from LiveLeak go an search the initial posting date to convince yourself.
    Another clue that’s easy to chek at the time of the accident, the sky was clouded in the area.

    I would suggest a better searching path asking for the original records of discussions between the control towers and the pilots to be made public ASAP. Not sure if it’s true, but these discussions are apparently also stored in a centralized system that controls all the air traffic in Europe.

    And what about the famous signals sent from the engines to the Rolls-Royce company via satellite ? I know it’s unlikely, but maybe something can be revealed by that also.

    Hopefully, Russia gets at least one black box that has the last minutes of the conversation inside the cockpit recorded.

    There is some good stuff about the war in Eastern Ukraine at http //vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/ and https //www.facebook.com/southfronteng

  50. For all the disinfonauts here who will recognise the M.O. of the clumsy fakers who pulled the Ghouta massacre and sent out videos TOO EARLY!
    DAHBOO77’s clip exposing the FAKE ‘Donetzkers – We shot down MH17’ audio — it was put out BEFORE the plane was shot down!!
    http //www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=28MrASx-RiM
    and Justin Raimondo, at AntiWar, (normally a shill site but hey, we take it where we find it)
    http //antiwar.com/blog/2014/07/18/audio-proof-of-ukrainian-rebel-responsibility-for-malaysian-flight-downing-is-fake/
    Kudos goes to DAHBOO7.

  51. It was just 30 miles across the border the Russian defense radar saw it all, including the two trailing SU-s, it appears they simply want the synagogue of Satan devils to dig a deeper hole for themselves (to include Obama/Biden/Willy Wonka) before coming up with a knock-out punch. BTW-where is Yats??!! Thats even more telling, has he left for israel.

  52. The video of the plane crashing is a Russian AN-26, NOT a Boeing 777. Th e wings have no sweep back. And its propeller driven, not jet driven.

    • And on the crash videos shown by most of the world´s media (with the huge kerosene explosion) the sky is cloudy, while here, it´s crystal clear. This cannot be the video of MH17.

  53. The strangely non-weeping crowd of relatives at the airport were all crisis actors then? Not one showing signs of the emotion of having just lost a loved one? To have many crisis actors filling in for 150 plus passengers would have been too much, is that why they made a separate hidden lounge, any pics of the “relatives” in the lounge?

  54. The coordinated “breaking news” memo (interupting local 12:00 Eastern news is tell tale), chess-pawn takes knight, what is the next move?

  55. Gordon,

    I think that this is a done deal already. It’s a hoax. The video that you show of the plane being shot down is NOT MH17 . Its Russian aircraft.

    MH17 is a hoax because

    – in the videos of the plane hitting the ground, there is no smoke trail.
    – some bodies are plastic dummies.
    – some bodies are decomposed which is impossible after a crash .
    – the passports are 100% pristine, after coming through the fireball.
    – some passports have a hole punched in it, which is what you do when you deactivate a passport. How could the traveller have used the passport then?
    – crash is near a road, which is statistically unlikely, but crucial for staging a hoax.
    – Mh17 flew right on schedule from Malaysia airlines the following day. MH370, which was genuinely removed from circulation, was delayed for Months restarting the flight number.

    Gordon, consider this finished and report on this basis. Stop reporting as if the crash was real.

    gfl

    – The video showing the explosion of the plane hitting the ground has NO SMOKE TRAIL as it falls, which is impossiblTher

    are are

    • be careful about such things. nanothermite was like this…
      a key element is planting evidence, planting stories, starting conspiracies…
      if a single plastic body was there..the piles of folks going thru the wreckage would have had it on youtube in a second

  56. The diverted flight path, the Spanish controller’s report, the decomposing bodies after insufficient time, the lack of a missile trail, etc. Sounds like Kiev had a big hand in this. Mossad and the CIA also. No plausible motives for Russia or the Resistance. Plus Obama has confirmed it as a false flag by his ready lie.

  57. > leaving the Netherlands for a medical conference

    I have read they were a hundredth. (AIDS.) VIPs do not travel *en
    masse*… BTW, if you have been at conferences already, they
    aren’t that *important* or *breakthroughing* in general; they are
    more a kind of holiday or gathering, good and exciting for
    *newcomers* typically and in particular. Also, KLM, Air France,
    British, Lufthansa might–I haven’t verified–have offered
    *better* (shorter) connections (for a price). (Nothing against
    Malaysia Airlines, God forbid!, which I have used already and
    will continue to use if the circumstances are given.)

    • Alzheimer is (if I am not mistaken… not beginning to google
      now) killer or danger #1 in the US.

    • Just for completeness (had also more time) though OT

      “The five leading causes of death in the United States [and
      similarly in other so called developed countries as well likely] are
      heart disease, cancer, chronic lower respiratory diseases,
      stroke, and unintentional injuries.”

      http //www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0501-preventable-deaths.html

      #6 (and growing) and 5th leading cause of death for those aged
      65+, Alzheimer. “An estimated 5.2 million Americans have
      Alzheimer’s disease in 2014.”

      http //www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_facts_and_figures.asp

  58. what’s so astonishing is that this false flag was so utterly predictable.

    It’s the same old routine.

    The US implements some crass, brutal plan to capture ground of some sort.
    Gets bogged down and looks failure in the face.
    Falls back on false flag in an attempt to turn the situation around.
    Hopes it’s not too obvious.

    The US Regime’s aim of creating a schism between Europe and Russia was falling flat. Thanks to the false flag, maybe our political masters and mainstream media will imprint the correct worldview into our minds.

  59. Kiev, Jul 17

    17h12 Poroshenko chairing the meeting of the [Ukrainian] Security Council

    17h26 The Council states that fighters in the East possess means allowing
    to TAKE DOWN A PLANE TO VERY HIGH ALTITUDE

    17h49 At Donetsk, an airliner [MH17] crashes…

    Ref.

    http //photo.ukrinform.ua/eng/current/photo.php?id=636108

    http //rusvesna.su/news/1405618099

    http //www.mondialisation.ca/comment-lavion-de-la-malaysia-airlines-a-t-il-pu-secraser-dans-la-zone-de-guerre-ukrainienne/5392247?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=comment-lavion-de-la-malaysia-airlines-a-t-il-pu-secraser-dans-la-zone-de-guerre-ukrainienne

    • Very conveniently the latest Gaza massacre and federal reserve currency monopoly (BRICS) break up has been pushed off the front page being replaced by endless Putin bashing and scripted MSM conspiracy theories / psyop.

      For example the UK Daily Mail once a semi credible newspaper … quote “Putin’s British disciple UK student, 29, with ‘dangerous’ links to pro-Russian rebels blamed for shooting down MH17 arrested in Latvia after leaving UK to fight ‘Crazy Ukrainians'” and quote “TWO British families killed by ‘Putin the terrorist’ Lawyer and banker both died in Ukrainian jet atrocity… along with their wives and FIVE children

      Utter bullshit !

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