MH17 Working Group Established



So Far, the Winner is ICTS and Schipol Airport, “Crotch Bomber” Redux


… by  Gordon Duff   and  Jim Dean,  VT Editors

with a cast of about a dozen


[ Note:   Ukrainian Prosecutor-General Vitaly Yarema told Ukrainian Pravda newspaper on Friday, “Militias in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics do not have Ukrainian air defense missile systems Buk and S-300 at their disposal”…”After the passenger airliner was downed, the military reported to the president that terrorists do not have our air defense missile systems Buk and S-300,” the general prosecutor said. “These weapons were not seized.”

“The Russians did it” story has crashed and burned. The the media overkill…”killed it”, all of them playing off the same talking points notes, no one even bothering to ask the most basic investigative journalist questions like “Show me the evidence you have.”

Who do you know, what country, that has a track record of pulling that kind of media and sock puppet politician coordination off whenever they want to, having them all singing like they are in a choir? ]



We have found one engine damaged.  It initially looked like an air to air missile hit it.  We see signs of fire but there is a question as to whether damage is consistent with a shape charge from an air to air missile.  Input from qualified folks welcomed as always.

The BUK is off the table.  We have reviewed it extensively and an S300 is capable but not a BUK.  It “says” it will do it but experts have ruled otherwise.  We have tons of supporting material already.

Additionally, were a ground launched missile used, we would have had sat photos already.  If we get them later, it will mean they have been cooked.


From, sent in by Jeff Rense:

YouTube - Veterans Today -

This plane is intact.  Ours would have fallen in pieces based on wreckage.

Human intel on the ground has given us much.  We are taking our time and want more.  The YouTube is very telling, engine on fire.  However, the wreckage indicates bomb thus far.   We, however, aren’t interested in guessing ourselves to death. We leave that to the slime media.

We have issues involving one Israeli jet from Azerbaijan.  We have issues about ICTS in Schipol.  We have issues about air traffic controllers in Kiev.  We have issues about SU 27s trailing the plane.  We have issues about “foreign” advisors in Kiev with the military who moved on the airport tower.

We are also looking for an AWAC in the area.  The bomb or whatever would have needed an AWAC or an F15 with advanced radar to time the crash.

Thus far the Putin assassination story that RT ran seems “off.”  We can do nothing with it so we won’t deal with it now.

What can’t be ignored is the manipulated media and the politicians who are making asses of themselves.  They are pointing a gun right at Israel.  The smell is overwhelming.  Next, someone will ask how many Jews were onboard.  As the plane was leaving the Netherlands for a medical conference, I would think the number to be substantial, 20 or more.  Is this a fair way to look at this?  Perhaps that should be discussed as well.

And who would destroy two fully packed airliners of a country they were angry with, to make an example? Is this enough to go on?  In reality, it is more powerful, following a cover up, than any other evidence.  Everything else can be faked.  The “stupidity” is for real. Yes, they are that stupid.

The dead want vengeance - and we aim to please
The dead want vengeance – and we aim to please


Comments Closed


  1. Jim Stone says MH17 and MH370 are not identical. MH17 has an extra window but the photo of the Ukrainian crash plane doesn’t have this

    • Jim Stone is using my data before I discovered both planes had the same window config. See my post on VT. Jim Stone is also wrong that MH-370 was a new plane. It was 12 years old. Jim Stone makes more mistakes than I do.


    There should have been a trail of smoke climbing up from any surface-to-air missile launch site to the target and there must be satellite images..

  3. Just reading that the Dutch will take the lead in the international investigation. Have taken possession of the black boxes and are sending them to London, UK for analysis. (Mistake #1.) @onderzoeksraad (see Twitter) is leading the investigation. These guys want truth and have the right attitude noone will BS them. I am not sure though if they know how FUBAR things can be. You guys may want to help them.

  4. Evidence shows that the plane that was shot down in Ukraine most likely did not depart from Amsterdam. Read the evidence in my article on VT – “Malaysia Missile Strike Was it MH-17 or MH-370?

    • How crazy is that.
      People in the Netherlands shot pictures of their family members going on that plane.
      That change to make it 370 too far fetched for me.

  5. Evidence shows the plane that was shot down in Ukraine most likely did not depart from Amsterdam. Read the evidence in my article on VT – “Malaysia Missile Strike Was it MH-17 or MH-370?

  6. Evidence shows the plane that was shot down did not depart from Amsterdam. Read my aricle on VT – “Malaysia Missile Strike Was it MH-17 or MH-370? “

  7. Not sure if I’m part of the “work group” but my posts revealing a switch in aircraft may be worth considering —
    Malaysia Missile Strike Was it MH-17 or MH-370?
    http //

  8. Whistleblower U.S. Satellite Images Show Ukrainian Troops Shooting Down MH17
    8 hours ago 3 Comments 891 Views

    Source tells award winning reporter Washington lying about responsibility for tragedy
    Award winning former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry has been told by an intelligence source that the United States is in possession of satellite imagery which shows that Ukrainian troops were responsible for the shoot down of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17. see http //

    • here is the actual article by Parry —maybe someone can track the actual Whisleblowers who say the US have pictures of Ukranian Soldiers in charge of the Missile System http //

  9. Do you really believe this shit you are coming up with? Have ANY of you ever been around something like this or seen what a body looks like in this case? I HAVE.

    Comments like “a leg that has a cut but no bleeding…” being proof it was a dummy?? Are you freaking kidding me? If you knew anything at all you would know that depending on the traumatic event to the body, there may NOT BE any bleeding if the heart is stopped cold or the wound is cauterized. Ask any REAL doctor or first responder or better yet any Combat Veteran that has seen it themselves.

    Other comments like how the plane would have been in pieces coming down if hit by a missile… BULLSHIT. In some cases, planes explode depending on where the missile hits. But in many cases, a missile strike will hit engines and wings tearing them off or the rudder area and this does NOT cause the plane to explode, just enter out of control flight straight to the ground.

    Some Buk systems have day radar tracking system that is the same as Kub and OSA systems. Additionally they can be setup with a combined optical tracking system with a thermal camera and a laser range-finder for passive tracking of a target. Finally the Buk system was also designed to be used with OTHER tracking radars like the straight flush system so it was not necessary to have ANY other sub.

    None of you know shit about the facts of this.

  10. Video of shootdown on Forbes presented as “conclusive proof” has date July 14th, when AN-26 downed,. Anyone speak Russian? Is this story about rebels shooting 2 aircraft down with BUKs? (date at 0 39)

    http //

    If the rebels had captured a BUK, would they drive it in the open, unescorted? Usually military hardware travels in columns. There is some sort of lead vehicle, it looks like an SUV – not the rest of BUK system. Other video and photos show BUK on truck, what happened to the truck?

  11. Daily Mail “Russian news announced shootdown 7 minutes before it happened”.

    http //

    Big claim; fact check? “News report was 1613 (Moscow time) and the plane went down at 1620”. If that was the time in Moscow, it would’ve been 1520 in Kiev/Donetsk. In fact, MH17 went down at GMT 1315 – which is 1715 in Moscow, 1615 Donetsk. Mail “the first phone call was made at 4 40pm local time” – this is GMT 1340.
    RIA tweet https //

  12. As far as being a hoax, one of the passengers was a Family friend of ours. Stephan Anderson…. He was on that flight and is missing. They have not yet declared him dead. For this, I know it is not a hoax. Sorry.

  13. As other members might have already said, the plane in this video is not MH17. It was cloudy that day with rain just on the horizon. The video portrays clear skies. You decide.

  14. Those rebels in Donetsk aren’t even Russian. They speak the language, but that’s it. Since no Russians are in the Ukraine, much less the rebel held Donetsk region, there is no story here. They failed, brilliantly.

  15. Check out the post from Wayne Madsen… NATO BREEZE & TRIDENT exercises coincided with the Malyasia Air MH-17 takedown, plus more. http //

  16. Meanwhile, Putin and Merkel have agreed that there has to be an objective international investigation of the incident, and that there must be peace talks in the southeast Ukraine. That should take some of the wind out of David Cameron’s ranting. July 19 article.–.html

  17. To be constructive, try these sites for info and tentative analyses

    The Saker.

    OEN, especially articles by Paul Craig Roberts.

    RT of course.

    PressTV of course.

    I’ll leave you to Google, because I can’t leave that many links here, if any working ones.

    • BTW a BUK SAM system comprises five vehicle, i.e launcher, loader, radar, radio and command, and it need 15-17 highly trained personnel. So that rules out the newly formed defence forces, whether or not they captured the full system required.

    • We used to go to newsland and buy The New American (thanks JBS,
      or earlier it was penthouse or playboy (we only bought them for the articles, right.
      Word travels so much faster, we had 6 channels and nothing on,
      now we have 157 (and nothing on) but now we pay directly,
      and they still load it up with commercials.
      I will quit sniveling now.



    • Gerry,
      This isn’t just for you
      99.999% of “bloggers,” and that’s what Rivero and others are, simply rehash CNN or make things up.
      Only a handful of people get real material.
      Madsen, Rense, and all the rest are VT…which is more than several.

  18. Sky news out of U.K., has the same staged news reporting of the crash. You can see “planted” suitcases and perfectly good clothing all in one area, as the reporter picks up some keys and “of course” childrens items. On it goes with phoney background video. This entire matter reeks of the filth of the media propaganda push.
    There is no hope for any white nation today except for the truly educated people that know what is happening and who is doing the behind the scenes manipulation!
    Geez, it gets sicker, more disgusting and smelly every day. And, it doesn’t matter what new event is being covered. It is all biased, slanted and truly manipulated.
    There will be no more America in 25 years.

  19. Found one more interesting thing; as the proRussians say, who were the first to see the plane site crash, – there were no food on the plane at all! That must be very strange, since that flight lasts 8 hours! Maybe in connection to the bloodless bodies? Story is becoming more and more interesting!

  20. Wake up and get over your own sense of self importance.This comment negates this entire thread and nobody reacted to this fine catch.Shame on all of you let alone the VT staff.Always follow the evidence and even there beware.

    July 20, 2014 – 12 39 pm
    Gordon Duff The plane on that video is not the MH17, but an AN-30 shot down. The original video is from and it was added in 6-6-2014. Greetings from Argentina.
    Original video http //

    • Yes, that was mentioned already, that this was the wrong video, as the skies were blue, among other things.

    • Get over the plane video stuff folks. So it is a view of what a burning shot down plane with a lot of people on it looks like….representative video, and we listed the source. The video is not ‘proof of’ anything as we all know the plane came down. And so what you have is something I have never seen…death in the skies in the Ukraine because someone does not prefer a negotiated settlement.

    • Yes what a load of crock and usual hubris from actual lack of intelligence, just the usual aggregating of info from elsewhere, without checking.

      That aircraft falling is not MH-17, as you say Lawrence.

      It is nonsense to dismiss a BUK SAM, because that system is fully capable and does NOT hit the target. It fires metal rods when close, so the target is not blown up, though badly disabled.

      RT did NOT run a story on Putin being the target. It was mentioned in passing and dismissed.

      Israeli jets? Disinfo? Red Herring? Diversion?

      This whole narrative is deeply flawed and obviously so for anyone who has paid a reasonable amount of attention. Talk about legends in their own lunch boxes lol.

    • BTW at 30,000 feet the fuselage would depressurize violently, causing substantial parts to fragment and contents – bodies, luggage, etc. – to be scattered over a wide area. All consistent with the crash scene and absence of burning/fire, except for where the main wreckage fell.

      Note The Junta had installed up to three BUK SAM systems near Donetsk and out of Donbas defence forces control area, so if the Junta ordered an attack, the forward momentum (500knots?) would have carried forward the wreckage to the defence force area as it fell at free fall in a parabolic arc.

    • Gerry, I am so sorry that you don’t like our work in progress. But all of your beefs are presented with a final report type fervor, which was clearly stated it was not. So you are just showing off, which is all part of the comment board thing. This thing will be going on for some time and there are going to be a lot of unhappy people all over the place. We are already used to that.

    • You just made my day, I had company, came back to look.
      Thank You Mr. Dean and company, what you do is of value.
      any more I would be gushing.
      Great Forum, so many interesting pesky smart frustrated people.
      I might be becoming a writer, I need to vent (constructively)
      This is a pretty recent thing, back in the day we would do some coke, drink a beer,
      and be up until 2am at least (and back at the post by 8 am (albeit a bit worn)
      30 years later I can’t do that anymore.
      Anyway my best, and Thanks.


Comments are closed.