Germans Say MH17 Shot Down by Ukie Migs

Shocking Analysis of the ‘Shooting Down’ of Malaysian MH17

Peter Haisenko in Cockpit of Condor DC 10


By Peter Haisenko


 Zur deutschen Version bitte hier anklicken


The tragedy of Malaysian MH 017 continues to elude any light of clarity being cast over it. The flight recorders are in England and are evaluated. What can come of it? Maybe more than you would assume. Especially the voice recorder will be interesting when you look at the picture of a cockpit fragment. As an expert in aviation I closely looked at the images of the wreckage that are circulating on the Internet.

First, I was amazed at how few photos can be found from the wreckage with Google. All are in low resolution, except one: The fragment of the cockpit below the window on the pilots side. This image, however, is shocking. In Washington, you can now hear views expresssed of a “potentially tragic error / accident” regarding MH 017. Given this particular cockpit image it does not surprise me at all.

Entry and exit impact holes of projectiles in the cockpit area

Source for all photos: Internet
I recommend to click on the little picture to the right. You can download this photo as a PDF in good resolution. This is necessary, because that will allow you understand what I am describing here. The facts speak clear and loud and are beyond the realm of speculation:

The cockpit shows traces of shelling! You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likeley that of a 30 millimeter caliber projectile. The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes showing shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that at these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent – outwardly! Furthermore, minor cuts can be seen, all bent outward, which indicate that shrapnel had forcefull exited through the outer skin from the inside of the cockpit. The open rivets are are also bent outward.

In sifting through the available images one thing stands out: All wreckage of the sections behind the cockpit are largely intact, except for the fact that only fragments of the aircraft remained . Only the cockpit part shows these peculiar marks of destruction.

This leaves the examiner with an important clue. This aircraft was not hit by a missile in the central portion. The destruction is limited to the cockpit area. Now you have to factor in that this part is constructed of specially reinforced material. This is on account of the nose of any aircraft having to withstand the impact of a large bird at high speeds.

You can see in the photo, that in this area significantly stronger aluminum alloys were being installed than in the remainder of the outer skin of the fuselage. One remembers the crash of Pan Am over Lockerbie. It was a large segment of the cockpit that due to the special architecture survived the crash in one piece. In the case of flight MH 017 it becomes abundantly clear that there also an explosion took place inside the aircraft.

Tank destroying mix of amunititon

Bullet holes in the outer skin
So what could have happened? Russia recently published radar recordings, that confirm at least one Ukrainian SU 25 in close proximity to MH 017. This corresponds with the statement of the now missing Spanish controller ‘Carlos’ that has seen two Ukrainian fighter aircraft in the immediate vicinity of MH 017. If we now consider the armament of a typical SU 25 we learn this: It is equipped with a double-barreled 30-mm gun, type GSh-302 / AO-17A, equipped with: a 250 round magazine of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells (dum-dum), arranged in alternating order. The cockpit of the MH 017 has evidently been fired at from both sides: the entry and exit holes are found on the same fragment of it’s cockpit segment! Now just consider what happens when a series of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells hit the cockpit. These are after all designed to destroy a modern tank. The anti-tank incendiary shells partially traversed the cockpit and exited on the other side in a slightly deformed shape. (Aviation forensic experts could possibly find them on the ground presumably controlled by the Kiev Ukrainian military; the translator).

After all, their impact is designed to penetrate the solid armor of a tank. Also, the splinter-explosive shells will, due to their numerous impacts too cause massive explosions inside the cockpit, since they are designed to do this. Given the rapid firing sequence of the GSh-302 cannon, it will cause a rapid succession of explosions within the cockpit area in a very short time. Remeber each of these is sufficient to destroy a tank.

What “mistake” was actually being committed – and by whom?

Graze on the wing
Because the interior of a commercial aircraft is a hermetically sealed pressurized chamber, the explosions will, in split second, increase the pressure inside the cabin to extreme levels or breaking point. An aircraft is not equipped for this, it will burst like a balloon. This explains a coherent scenario. The largely intact fragments of the rear sections broke in mid air at the weaker points of contstruction most likely under extreme internal air pressure. The images of the widely scattered field of debris and the brutally damaged segment of cockpit fit like hand in glove. Furthermore, a wing segment shows traces of a grazing shot, which in direct extension leads to the cockpit. Interestingly, I found that both the high-resolution photo of the fragment of bullet riddled cockpit as well as the segment of grazed wing have in the meantime disappeared from Google Images. One can find virtually no more pictures of the wreckage, except the well known smoking ruins. If you listen to the voices from Washington now who speak of a “potentially tragic error / accident”, all that remains is the question of what might have been the nature of this “mistake” perpetrated here. I am not given to hover long in the realm of speculation, but would like to invite others to consider the following :

The MH 017 looked similar in it’s tricolor design to that that of the Russian President’s plane. The plane with Presdient Putin on board was at the same time ”near” Malaysia MH 017. In aviation circles “close” would be considered to be anywhere between 150 to 200 miles. Also, in this context we might consider the deposition of Ms. Tymoshenko, who wanted to shoot Presdient Putin with a Kalashnikov.

But that this remains pure speculation. The shelling of the cockpit of air Malaysia MH 017, however, is definitely not.

Editing:  Jim W. Dean


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95 Responses to "Germans Say MH17 Shot Down by Ukie Migs"

  1. urbanb  August 8, 2014 at 8:05 am

    just after MH17 was shot down, something very rare happened in Sweden. A US plane sough refuge in Swedish airspace after being chased by russian fighters.
    [Sweden is not a Nato member and normally a Swedish fighter would have be sent up to divert the intruder, even a US one, this did not happened this time.]
    This has never really happened before and the timing in suspicious.

  2. joe chuy-medina  August 3, 2014 at 6:20 pm

    Yoichi Shimatsu has an interesting article in He thinks that the rebels shot down/shot at the falling three sections of the plane, thinking that it was several fighter jets, as it might have displayed on their radar. Worth a look.

    • stephanaugust  August 4, 2014 at 2:16 am

      Funny. My British intel source claims they used an Avengers Helicarrier.

  3. stephanaugust  August 3, 2014 at 1:29 pm

    Can anyone explain, if it is physically possible that this piece of aircraft debris falls 30,000 feet and lands in trees? I would say that the mass causes a kinetic energy which wrecks the tree, but maybe I am wrong.


    Map of a Tragedy How Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Came Apart Over Ukraine –

    • JohninMK  August 4, 2014 at 9:08 am

      Link not working in the UK atm

    • stephanaugust  August 5, 2014 at 3:04 pm

      You are right. The link no longer works. Maybe WSJ removed it, because it looked to much like Hollywood. Strange. But has it. So, copy the link, go to, and paste it.

    • stephanaugust  August 5, 2014 at 4:46 pm

      Now I can see it again, before it was gone. Must be the weird wide web.

  4. madashellron  August 3, 2014 at 11:06 am

    High Resolution photo of the 30 caliber bullet holes in MH-17.
    http //

  5. stephanaugust  August 2, 2014 at 6:52 am

    Given the price of a Boeing 777, would it be possible to do an insurance scam? I have to think of Titanic and WTC.

  6. ProtectUSA1st  August 1, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    —–“NATO has confirmed that Ukrainian forces have started using powerful ballistic missiles against militants in the east of the country. Kiev previously denied the fact, revealed to German DW Television by NATO sources in Brussels.”

    —–“Three US officials confirmed to me a short time ago that US intelligence over the last 48 hours has monitored the firing of several short-range ballistic missiles from territory controlled by Ukraine government forces into areas controlled by the pro-Russian separatists,” Barbara Starr, CNN’s Pentagon correspondent, said in a live report.”

    —–“Earlier this week, the US State Department released satellite images via email which it said act as “evidence” that Russia was firing rockets at Ukrainian troops across the border. Russia’s Defense Ministry stated in response that American advisers created the “fake” images “with close links to Ukraine’s Security Council.”

    —–“Will we see the satellite imagery of the Ukrainians firing against the separatists? That may be a very tricky political question for the US intelligence community today,” CNN’s Starr said.”

    —-“In fact, the US is holding this information right now fairly tightly, officials say, because they are in an awkward position these are, you know, the so-called ‘good guys’ firing ballistic missiles, Ukraine government forces,” Starr said on air.”

    • JohninMK  August 2, 2014 at 5:14 am

      Not sure that the NATO bit is correct. Whilst as you say the US announced that BM had been used, NATO yesterday refused to confirm it which is pretty strange except they want to kill the story.
      http //

  7. rolan  August 1, 2014 at 4:20 pm


    > Originally Posted by RetiredF4
    > I dont think so. The seeker head of the missile is semiactive
    > homing, and it heads for the biggest radar return, which is not
    >the engine.

    I think what KatSLF meant was that the missile exploded to the
    port side of the flight deck at a distance not yet known. This
    means the No.1 engine would stand a good chance of ingesting
    debris from the missile.

    My two pence on the “skid marks” on the wing There are images of
    bare metal sporting a green “skid mark” on it. Metal that is not
    primered (leading edge of the wing, for example), so I doubt the
    marks are actually the primer.

    I warrant that after the missile went bang, what was left of the
    none explosive parts hit the wing as they began the fall back to
    earth. With the forward motion of the aircraft, the wing probably
    travelled into their path. Either that, or it is damage from the
    explosive shrapnel.

    And so on, etc.
    MORAL capito what is going on? And *viele Gruesse* to the *German

    • rolan  August 1, 2014 at 4:22 pm

      http // still,
      of course

    • jmreeves  August 1, 2014 at 6:04 pm

      Under the wrong conditions you could end up being chased by your own whatsee.


    • joe chuy-medina  August 2, 2014 at 4:15 am

      very astute observation, John! I believe that this is exactly where I am, trying to follow Senor rolan’s analysis. this article may be off track, but is not BS. for me, there is a difference, which depends on the intent of the author.


  8. rolan  August 1, 2014 at 4:12 pm

    http //

    Pontius Navigator

    >Originally Posted by Piltdown Man
    >Given that a worthwhile and proper investigation will require
    >vast effort and expenditure, I wonder if the outcome will justify
    >the resources invested?

    That is the way of the modern world. Look at a simple case, boy
    stabs teacher in front of 30 witnesses and then confesses. Police
    carry out a though crime scene and case investigation in what is
    an open and shut case.

    If the diagram shown by OleOle is correct it shows that it was an
    unlucky hit with the missile exploding too late and too far ahead
    from optimum.

    Aside from the civil criminal investigation I believe many
    intelligence agencies and the missile manufacturer will also have
    an intense interest and not from humanitarian interests.

  9. rolan  August 1, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    http //


    > SO inside the port engine is best place to look for shrapnel
    >and/or parts of the actual missile itself.

    I dont think so. The seeker head of the missile is semiactive
    homing, and it heads for the biggest radar return, which is not
    the engine.
    To explain that a bit further, the head does not aim directly to
    the radar return, which would lead to a pure persuit intercept
    course, but the seeker gadgets compute a direct lead persuit
    intercept course. A head on shot against a non maneuvering big
    aircraft like a 777 will have most probably be a direct hit,
    although the proximity fuse would detonate the warhead just prior
    From the damage observed in the cockpit section i would guess
    this happened level to slightly high in the front left section.

    Concerning this special piece of wreckage, which got my attention
    from the beginning, there could be another explanation. It could
    be part of an steering fin of the missile and its resting place
    would support this possibility.

  10. rolan  August 1, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    -> PPRuNe (Professional Pilots Rumor Network)

    http //
    30th Jul 2014, 16 13

    [in reply to

    Article published today by former airline pilot Peter Haisenko
    http //…alaysian-mh17/ ]

    The article is BS.
    It is true, where the material is two layered in the enforced
    cockpit section the inner layer looks perforated from outside to
    inside and the outer layer is bent to the outside, as if a bullet
    has been shot from the inside.
    The explanation is simple to understand.

    When the hot fragments of the warhead (they are very hot, glowing
    at the beginning) hit a single layer of metal, they just
    penetrate, they nearly melt through. All the expansion of gases
    the fragment causes goes to the inside.

    If the fragment meets a doubled layer metal construction the
    first sheet again is perforated, but at the same time a lot of
    pressure is building up between those two sheets of metal due to
    expanding gases and melting of parts of the first metal, thus
    bending the edges of the inlet hole to the outside. Then the
    second metal sheet is penetrated. This principle is used to
    protect armored vehicles by using multiple sheets of metal layers
    instead a thick one. %

  11. Frankly Speaking  August 1, 2014 at 3:10 pm


    I want to follow up with my comments about Jim Stone ( He now has a post up about there being no rockets and no tunnels from Gaza, he claims that its all a psyop. Thats pretty damn peculiar, I admit. He might have been taken over by someone. I think that over the totality of his writings, there is some useful material there, definitely. Certainly what he said about Fukushima is solid. But there is a lot of peculiar, highly unlikely stuff in there as well that he doesn’t prove. judgment is very difficult, and iI guess that JIM Stone’s is mixed. NN

  12. JohninMK  August 1, 2014 at 2:58 pm

    If the plane was shot down by gunfire from the front how easy is it to do with a closing speed of perhaps 800 knots?

  13. Philip Shahak  August 1, 2014 at 12:14 pm

    I see the Brits have the 2 hour voice recording for a week and still no news about what is in it. Maybe the dog ate it.

  14. jmreeves  August 1, 2014 at 9:13 am

    The less we form factions and camps and all, the better our chances of not getting tricked
    (including by our own errors,
    You are the only one who is near you as often as you are,
    and so you are perpetually in a position to screw yourself,
    whereas the ‘bad guys’ come and go. (make friends, you already have enemies)
    (and don’t forget, we still have ‘normal background’ AND the cute stuff.
    You can still fall down the stairs in a moment of inattention
    don’t ‘marry’ your work let alone the days conclusions (we can become so attached
    And club membership is optional, and hazardous IMO.
    One more time from the top, with feeling
    Mining and Refining, Ore and Leverite, Immersion and Osmosis.
    My Best to You.


  15. JohninMK  August 1, 2014 at 8:35 am

    This is a very relevant site. They are building a list of parts from MH17 dividing them into damaged by shrapnel or not. Looks like a frontal assault.

    http //

  16. aamish  August 1, 2014 at 8:06 am


    http //
    “Bogdan Boutkevitch Ok, you ask me “How can this be happening?” Well, it happens because Donbass, in general, is not simply a region in a very depressed condition, it has got a whole number of problems, the biggest of which is that it is severely overpopulated with people nobody has any use for. Trust me I know perfectly well what I am saying.

    If we take, for example, just the Donetsk oblast, there are approximately 4 million inhabitants, at least 1.5 million of which are superfluous. That’s what I mean we don’t need to [try to] “understand” Donbass, we need to understand Ukrainian national interests.

    Donbass must be exploited as a resource, which it is. I don’t claim to have a quick solution recipe, but the most important thing that must be done – no matter how cruel it may sound – is that there is a certain category of people that must be exterminated”

  17. rolan  August 1, 2014 at 5:26 am

    M-U-S-T R-E-A-D (and study 😉

    http //

    Analysis of satellite imagery released on the Internet by the Security Service of Ukraine on July 30, 2014

  18. rolan  August 1, 2014 at 4:47 am

    ited hangout and [let be generous] *plausible* denial

    Bah, now, another question… given that our *German pilot* (or
    who for him) only appears to suggest *naive* deductions (if I am
    not mistaken, the *thesis* of a failed/misguided tentative to
    attack Putin’s plane is resurfacing!) instead of raising the
    right issues and be happy with it.

    Q. 777 having been hit by an AAM in the first place,
    temporarily/partially having survived the damage, flying at just
    above stall speed, and losing quote; why all the gunning,
    colander-style at the cockpit? hardly have suffered sudden,
    comprehensive structural damage.) Maybe because killing the
    pilots and cut any further voice communications/recordings had
    taken absolute precedence?

    Also, could it be that, radar controlled AAMs normally trying to
    target the center of an aircraft, the giant engine of the 777 may
    have *shielded* partially the aircraft? (I guess that a heat
    seeking AAM would have followed a much more damaging path.)

    • rolan  August 1, 2014 at 4:49 am

      1st paragraph

      There seem to be a rush of desperate tentatives of cover up,
      limited hangout and [let be generous] *plausible* denial

    • rolan  August 1, 2014 at 4:58 am

      3rd paragraph

      Q. 777 having been hit by an AAM in the first place,
      temporarily/partially having survived the damage, flying at just
      above stall speed, and losing quote; why all the gunning,
      colander-style at the cockpit? (At 200 hm/h and lower
      altitude`the aircraft would hardly have suffered sudden,
      comprehensive structural damage.) Maybe because killing the
      pilots and cut any further voice communications/recordings had
      taken absolute precedence?


    • rolan  August 1, 2014 at 5:03 am

      Why not firing a 2nd AAM?!

    • rolan  August 1, 2014 at 5:06 am

      (Obviously still thinking at some F 15… -> Gordon Duff)

    • rolan  August 1, 2014 at 6:20 am

      In fact, I am mistaken in guessing that Su-*s there would have carried
      bombs/ASMs exclusively instead of AAMs?

    • JohninMK  August 1, 2014 at 1:52 pm

      They would have carried a load suitable for the mission which could have included AAMs amongst a very wide range of options. Mission planning would have known the height the target would have been at so, if it was a SU25, it may have not carried anything outboard hence the possible gun use.

      Can’t understand why the SU25 not a SU27. Only reason I can think of is plausible deniability when Wiki says a 23000ft operational ceiling. But then the Russians, who built it, said 33000 in the right conditions.

  19. stephanaugust  August 1, 2014 at 3:08 am

    Israel takes the cake again.

    — Home Ministry denies Hamas operatives trained in Malaysia

    By Coconuts KL,1 Aug 2014 05 19

    The Malaysian Government today denied the claims put forth in a report by the Jerusalem Post that Hamas operatives had used Malaysia as a training ground for Palestinian attacks into Israeli territory.

  20. stephanaugust  August 1, 2014 at 12:42 am

    As reports by pilots are rare, here is another report by a pilot.

    — Can the Su-25 intercept and shoot down a 777? | Locklin on science

  21. Jeffersonian  July 31, 2014 at 11:46 pm

    To me, that crash site looked staged. How could you have glass liquor bottles survive a crash like that? They wouldn’t survive, period. There were several bottle of liquor that looked like it just came off the shelf. Then look at the passports. Again, all looking brand new, and 1/3 of them were cut and not valid. The bodies were also not consistant with a 33,000 fall. They would have broken apart, and heads, arms and legs would have came off from the impact. The aerial images released by the US also showed that the debris looked like they walked/carried them into place. There was paths worn between the debris and the road. Additionally, the debris field wasn’t even close to being large enough. The other issues that I have are all of the “Pre-Flight” photos and videos coming out! Seriously, who takes photos and videos of the aircraft they are getting ready to fly on AND THEN TWEET, POST, EMAIL THE IMAGES OUT BEFORE THE PLANE TAKES OFF! Really?? They have claimed at least 6 different people took photos and videos before takeoff, and then sent them out to the WWW. Not to mention out of those 6 people, one (1) of the people taking/sending photos just also happens to work for Reuters AND also just happens to be an Israeli

  22. Jeffersonian  July 31, 2014 at 11:46 pm

    Not that I believe that the plane was “Shot down by a Buk Missile”. However, I am not buying into that last photo of the “wing”. Look at the size of that wing, in comparison to the bullet holes. Even the thickness of the wing section looks too small.

  23. Observer from Europe  July 31, 2014 at 10:41 pm

    Strange, two of my links got lost, so once again:

  24. jmreeves  July 31, 2014 at 8:59 pm

    Well alrighty then!
    Now we are getting warm.
    Wait for the dust to settle, everyone will be making plenty of noise,
    I suggest we get it all on tape!
    I sure hope parties unknown do not kill everybody,
    while we are still getting calibrated.
    An earnest wish, stuff is moving fast and getting kinda crazy.
    This cannot be helped, but it is damn dangerous (we knew this would happen in round numbers
    Well here we are in still round but somewhat more specific numbers.
    I am glad you guys are around and have yet to throw me overboard.
    Interesting Times.
    Holding Hands and comparing notes is the best I know until the big party (if we live so so long)


  25. rolan  July 31, 2014 at 5:06 pm

    Shocking analysis by German pilot my a**

    MH17 The Evidence 28th July 2014 MH17

    The dynamic is DIFFERENT

    […O]n July 23rd, Anna-News published an interview with retired
    Russian Air Force colonel Aleksand Zhilin (Александр Жилин) a
    frequent military commentator on Ukraine’s Civil War. “According
    to the colonel, at 5 19pm Moscow time, a Ukrainian jet fighter
    targeted the Boeing withan air-to-air missile R-60. The missile
    damaged the right engine of the Boeing. The Boeing was hit, but
    still managed to stay in the air. However, in doing so, the
    Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left. It was at this moment that
    the false flag attack started falling apart. […]


    • rolan  July 31, 2014 at 5:08 pm


      [T]he fatal event occurred between 17 21 28 and 17 22 30 Moscow
      Time.The exact time of the crash is believed to be at 5 23pm.
      At 5 20pm MH17 began to abruptly lose speed, eventually slowing
      to 124mph (200kmph). The plane turned left in a u-turn.About this
      time, a Su-25 Ukrainian fighter jet appeared on ATC radar
      climbing in the direction of MH17 on the same flight path
      approximately 3-5km behind MH17, reaching the same altitude
      minutes beforeMH17 disappeared on radar. […]

      Gunning a 777 flying at 200 km/h who has lost altitude (look at
      the ceiling of an Su-25) is ANOTHER story…

    • rolan  July 31, 2014 at 5:15 pm

      Still to be cleared up is the *R-60* thing of course (read–it
      could have been a *similar* AAM fired by *another* aircraft)

      Warhead 3 kg
      Speed Mach 2.7

    • rolan  July 31, 2014 at 5:17 pm

      Curious to see if these posts are going to magically
      disappear too.

    • jmreeves  July 31, 2014 at 9:30 pm

      FWIW I have seen stuff discappear (and rarely then re-emerge)
      I do not pay the Editors, so when they kill a piece
      I typically figure not only is this their railroad (on which they grant me latitude
      But if it went away it may have saved me (or others) trouble.
      Thanks VT Guys,
      I write alot, sometimes late at night,
      If you want it gone I see nothing!


    • DaveE  July 31, 2014 at 9:41 pm

      We know from your previous “work” you’re an Israelite.

    • rolan  July 31, 2014 at 5:23 pm


      For those who don’t know, Anna-News is a VERY HIGH quality
      news source (also famous with Syria reports).

    • rolan  July 31, 2014 at 5:30 pm

      And still

      According to the Russian Air Force Commander (and a hero JIC),
      Ukrainian (military) pilots are poorly trained and unskilled; beyond
      that, their aircraft are in similar bad shape…

    • jmreeves  July 31, 2014 at 10:07 pm

      The bad guys are desperate and are fire hosing us
      (so many things at once we hardly know what to do)
      But we planned for this, and we have a bigger firehose.
      It’s on.
      Now we will see what kind of work we do!


  26. stephanaugust  July 31, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    Surprise, surprise, jimstonefreelance reports this story too.

  27. Detlef Reimers  July 31, 2014 at 1:52 pm

    Don’t know how I could forget this one

    Bolivia now calls Israel a terrorist state. Sounds true to me.

    Can anybody tell me what these foreign embassy personals are just doing over there in Israel? I recently heard some unfortunate stories, unfortunate for the professional kiddy and woman killers. Don’t know if Roy Tov will make it till the end of August, but he is a brave man, he gives us so much hints and information to think about.

    Gordon, Mike Harris just told us that time is getting rough and threats are coming – including supposedly JDL/ADL crooks. I have a feeling that this might be very true, but also at other places, as we all know.

    Engdahl just wrote about Ukraine, a wonderful peace about corruption in high places, fracking, Biden and others and it again leads us straight to MH17 (that’s at the heart of the area), the US, Israel and these mafia guys, who are real internationalists – as is all their stolen money.

    • jmreeves  July 31, 2014 at 9:08 pm

      Were the question to be “Hearts and Minds”
      which at some level it is,
      The Zionists are ‘loosing’ bigtime.
      But that is just what they have in mind (to provoke us)
      we need for them to do the ‘stupid’, we are best served by not joining on.
      We can lurk and cause trouble.


  28. Detlef Reimers  July 31, 2014 at 1:34 pm

    Iz’s good that VT brings this article up for the english/US audience. I’m not in the position to judge all this but I carefully notice what is said by this former german flight commander.

    It might not be interesting to the US/UK audience but what we see in Germany now, is nothing more than Göbbel’s propaganda show. As I repeatedly wrote here on VT, they’ve already lost their sheeple in my country, they’ve totally underestimated the firm resistance of the more and more informed people.

    Think of this, the SPIEGEL had to explain it’s own propaganda peace about Putin and they failed again, badly.

    Maybe no one noticed, Merkel was in China for 6 days!!!! Any questions?

    Read the last article in the independent, the times they are already changing, slowly but firmly.

    MH17 brings them down, Ghaza brings them down, their own greed brings them down. Russia (and Argentina) are timely brought into some financial trouble – we call it BRICS. They will fail, because the crooks – this time – won’t get their money back. They’ve already stolen it in the first time.

    It’s a nice big drame, we watch now, bo big deal at all. They won’t win, because they already lost it!


  29. rolan  July 31, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    Why I can’t see my posts again?!

    • ani  July 31, 2014 at 2:11 pm

      sometimes it happens. Best let it go 24 hours and it usually shows up within that time, sometimes on another page. Just one of those things rolan.

    • stephanaugust  July 31, 2014 at 11:13 pm

      Ever heard about the holonet theory, claiming that powerful computers can create personalized internet realities? (But it would need only two people to prove this right or wrong, watching a site from two countries while talking about what they see by phone.)

    • OrdinarySerf  July 31, 2014 at 5:31 pm

      It has happened to me, a post disappears into the ‘ether’ for hours and then turns up – doesn’t mean they are blocking your views rolan, it’s just a technical hitch in the system. I had a message up on screen the other day, saying ‘you are posting too fast….slow down !’

    • jmreeves  July 31, 2014 at 9:18 pm

      I think we have arranged for the VT guys to be very busy.
      Which I suspect is what they came for.
      Now, let us be patient, exhibit forbearance,
      not jump to conclusions (let alone get tricked into backshooting our friends.
      This is where we are big boys and girls, and the adults need not admonish us,
      because we are good kids and catch on quick.
      I never went top school for this (nor did you,
      even if they claimed to have that for you.
      No. This is Real Time like I have never seen it,
      That is immaterial, except if others get the same impression.
      Life is an experiment,
      it is getting interesting,
      and this is the part where it is supposed to work.


  30. Observer from Europe  July 31, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    May be it would be helpfully to extend the scope primarily to the motives and put some background information together.
    MH 370 and MH 17 should not independetly looked at, as in the following links are explained. One need not get along with all of the hints, but anyway they sound very reasonably. If so, the question of “who” downed MH 17 does not seem of the very first importance, the main thing is it has been done.


  31. stephanaugust  July 31, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    Given a crash site with only the size of a field, it is amazing that we see every day new pictures of scrap metal.

    • Gordon Duff  July 31, 2014 at 12:43 pm

      a field 25 square miles

    • jmreeves  July 31, 2014 at 9:58 pm

      Must have been ‘explosive decompression’ (with real explosives?
      The things I use for humor these days..
      I heard a good one, another old movie (TCM)
      He said ” I am not worried about the bullet with my name on it
      I am worried about the one addressed to “to whom it may concern”
      Thanks VT guys (I guess a few think the check is in the mail.Well, it isn’t
      ( did send Paul Craig a few bucks, bless his heart!
      He could be sipping pina coladas on some island
      (no he could not, nor I, I do Love Paul Craig Roberts.
      He has a few years on me, may I live so long.
      and with due regard to how it might usually be,
      There are still honest forthright people who work in a perilous environment.
      I personally would prefer a substation, at least then I know what to not touch.


    • Charlotte NC Bill  August 1, 2014 at 4:35 am

      Where did that line come from? sounds like Bogie playing Pvt. Det. Philip Marlowe….
      Paul Craig Roberts is one classy guy…It figures he worked for Reagan, not Bush or Clinton..

    • jmreeves  August 1, 2014 at 7:45 am

      I wish I could give attribution
      It was from that vintage (circa 1940 give or take a few.
      I will try for attribution, in this case it was a movie on TCM
      I was watching with one ear while composing.
      Best to You.


  32. Raptor  July 31, 2014 at 9:37 am

    By now it should be obvious to anyone interested that both Russia and the US know exactly what happened and exactly who did it. The rub is the delay in fessing up, the rest looks like a carefully planned out dog and pony show. Now one must ask….Who has the power to clam up the US Government and what would have the Germans, or who would have the Germans bent over a barrel?

    Also looks very obvious, even more so, that someone has set up a few members of congress with this delay in evidence…..looking forward I presume. At the end of the day someone has been set up to fail, and I for one would love to know exactly who this master really is. Looks like and end run to me, maybe even a backdoor that someone forgot to check….


    • maryhysmith  July 31, 2014 at 11:12 am

      Just because someone is covering up, doesn’t mean they were complicit in the crime. The WH has been presenting things in the Ukraine as hunky dory for months. They haven’t wanted the public or press to know what a mess they made. I at times suspect that some of them like Merkel, know the score but are going along with Obama’s game thinking that it is the best way to advert a total collapse of the Ukraine gov. I saw Judge napolitano talking his opinion that Obama is trying to get his poll ratings up. After Obama’s statements yesterday that this was not a new cold war, I am more inclined to believe the judge and go with the Obama is incompetent and hasn’t a clue to what he is doing, playing his stupid political games more so than intentionally criminal ones.

    • Charlotte NC Bill  August 1, 2014 at 4:40 am

      This isn’t “Obama’s game” anymore than the 9-11 false flag was Bush’s game…they’re actors playing the part of “president” for the illuminati Jewish billionaires that own the central bank, the media, the entertainment industry, the politicians….the worst element ends-up owning everything in a secular, pluralistic, raw capitalistic country…Why? Because they can..

    • ani  August 1, 2014 at 4:49 am

      “the colour of money”

  33. joe chuy-medina  July 31, 2014 at 9:16 am

    the analysis is plausible. maybe we should all consider that there is evidence of “bullet holes” in the cockpit area, and not hang our total analysis on the particular type of plane -regardless of what Russia has said. and don’t forget the very first clue that Kiev was involved, in some fashion, from the video that was released by them, made the day before. think 911, Sandy Hook, etc.
    this is certainly better than some articles, contributed by pompous, arrogant men in suits and ties, that pluck an opinion from the air, with NO evidence to support it.

    • OrdinarySerf  July 31, 2014 at 9:35 am

      Actually Joe, a link to this was put up a few days ago by Gordon in his article “Breaking Russian Satellite Imagery on MH17 (Black Box and New Evidence)”. It is a very interesting alternative analysis. I certainly don’t think, as intimated by other commenters here that this is necessarily disinfo. Who knows ? Could have been a ‘belt and braces’ job with a bomb. Whatever the method(s), someone (and we know who), was absolutely determined that this plane was going down.

  34. stephanaugust  July 31, 2014 at 7:24 am

    Beware flying with Peter Hasenklo.

    • domovoy  July 31, 2014 at 12:44 pm

      Why ? You think he shot MH-17 down ?

    • stephanaugust  August 1, 2014 at 2:21 am

      That one too.

  35. Simpleton  July 31, 2014 at 7:15 am

    This is poisoning the well disinfo. The Russians have definite proof but are playing a waiting game for Obama & Co(hen) to make an international fools of themselves.

    • Gordon Duff  July 31, 2014 at 8:33 am

      we will see…but all has to be reported…and the Americans have released nothing

    • maryhysmith  July 31, 2014 at 11:19 am

      I bet they do not release anything. Russia had air traffic controller data, spy satellites, radar activity of Ukrainians. Either the Russians are lying which is not likely considering their quick release, or the US has enough to sink Obama’s ship, so to speak.

    • jmreeves  August 1, 2014 at 7:49 am

      You are just being silly.
      She (haft?) told us as might a anal retentive kindergarten teacher
      that they have it all worked out! (and you’ll have to take her word!
      Sheesh! (I would not have these guys speaking in public on my behalf (I digress).


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